1st cycle & First post: Critique it(Deca/Test/Winny) + PCT

[quietflight]

All inputs are appreciated.

Things to consider:
- This is my first cycle ever
- I realize the cycle length is quite short
- As you can see bloating is an issue, so arimidex is taken, as well as winstrol near the middle of the cycle. This is evident in the low dosage of test i will be administering.
- The test is also used to combat the OL "Deca Dick" that i keep hearing about.

I need opinions on:
1) If i should start the winstrol a week earlier
2) Clomid therapy advice, because the sample therapy cycle i picked seems to be "too much"(IMO) in accordance to the low level of test i'm going to be administering.

Stats:
H/W: 5'8" @ 180lbs
bf %: ?
Lifing experience: 6 years
Diet: ~ 3000cal/ day
Carbs: Mainly pasta, sweet potato, banannas, vegetables
Protien: Eggs, Beef Chicken breast, Protien powder
Vitamins: Multivitamin, Amino 9999
Supplements: Protien Powder, Ephedrine HCI, Caffine, Niacin, CLA

Cycle information:
Test. Enanthate @ 200mg/week for 8-9weeks
Deca @ 300mg/week for 8-9 weeks
Winstrol @ 50mg/EOD starting week #6, for a duration of 6wks
Arimidex @ .5mL/eod for 14wks

2 weeks after last shot of Test. Enanthate Clomid therapy begins, for a duration of 2-3 weeks.

Week 1 300 mg 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg
Week 2 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg 100 mg 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg
Week 3 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg 50 mg

There it is gentlemen. Lets hear soem of that veteran wizdom.

One last question: What week will i start to feel different, or experience wieght/strength gain. From what i've found you get a nice kick around the 3rd-5th week. But what is it like prior to that?

[quietflight]

oh yeah did i meantion i'm scared shitless of test. sideffects? Thats why the dosage is low...BUT! there are always exceptions

If you guys say bump, i'll bump...but as my first cycle i'd like to stay rather mild so as to reduce chances of major fuck up.

and yes...i do know to get everything together before i start....

The only thing i''m gonna hold off on is the winny...as its gonna be 6 weeks before i'll even touch it... but everything else i'll have on hand

[jsb6812]

ok first of bro.. i want to thank u for telling us ur stats, cycle history, and workout background... u even added how many cals u eat a day and mostly wat its from...
now, as many other people are gonna say.. 1st cycle.. keep it easy and run test only.... also ur test is way to low, when running deca with test i would run the deca half the test, for example, test at 400/wk and deca 200/wk...that and ur test ends after 9 weeks... ur cuttin urself short....back to wat i was sayin about test only, u dont know how ur body is gona react to any type of aas... soo keep it simple and run only one thing the 1st time and find out.. ur 2nd cycle can be more in depth and u can run all this togather...
in my opinion... do this...
wk 1-12...test 400 mg/wk..( inject twice a week.. mon. and thurs.)

also.. ur cals are at 3000.. u need more bro..try to get at least 4 to 4.5 a da... u need more "real food" add another meal or two and u need some fats in there also....

[quietflight]

noted*

Thank you

[Skyefire]

what side affects are you trying to aviod here?

[quietflight]

Gyno, but mainly getting my balls back.
I just got the fist cycle jitters i guess.

I'm having a problem aquiring my Enanthate though...3 sources and all are out of Enanthate.

One way or another I'm definitly gonna run a stack straight out the hole. Just the manner(intensity) in which I workout leads me to believe, some good gains are possible.

I'm a little confused on how my nutrition/ workouts should change when Winstrol comes into the game....

I'm not sure if I should start cardio while still taking the deca test + winny or should i wait till after the last injection of deca/test?

Help?
If you want a peek into the method behind my madness here it is:
I'm lookin to put on 15-20lbs and then lean out/harden up just in time for Spring break in March

[bowbow]

Leave your deca dosage the same but you do need to run more test than deca. So you need 400 mgs of test a week. I f thats to much then lower both by a 100mgs a week. My first cycle was a test deca combo also minus the winny and I loved it. Getting your balls back as you say shoudn't be a problem with the shorter cycle your planning on. You can do cardio the whole time if you like, it's all up to you on that one. I would also increase cal. intake.

[ROCKETW19]

test only 400-500mgs week for 10-12 weeks eat right you will get the15-20lbs

[Cmsmallzz]

Originally posted by ROCKETW19
test only 400-500mgs week for 10-12 weeks eat right you will get the15-20lbs

Bro you are looking way to into things here...200mg of test a week is a joke...That is barely above baseline levels of what your body is producing now. You will see much better gains from the cycle Rocket listed than with the mess you are trying to put together. No offense. Also why are you running the Arimidex for 14 weeks???

[al the chemist]

taken from beyondmass.com, posted by bask8kase over there...

If you've read some of my posts on other boards, you probably already have seen that I advocate suggesting low doses for beginners . Why jump into 600mg per week of test as a first or second cycle when it is highly likely you will get great gains using 200-300mg (in initial cycles)?

I keep seeing people write that 200mg of testosterone per week does nothing more than shut down a man's natural test production and bring him near "normal levels"--this is not quite correct (part of the statement is correct part of it is not). This incorrect statement has endured probably because someone wrote down thier idea/theory of what happens in the body, it sounded good, and other people repeated it. But, it is not correct. Yes, 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone will shut down natural test production, BUT the amount of 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone is more than twice the "normal levels" of test in the body of a healthy non-steroid using male. Therefore, 200mg of a long lasting ester of testosterone per week is far more than enough to grow on.

(I explain more below)

I was paranoid about side effects of testosterone on a normally functioning body, so I had my blood levels checked while on 200-250mg per week. The results of the tests indicated that the amount of testosterone in my blood was more than twice the high end of the normal range (The normal free testosterone range is 50.0-210.0 pg/ml*. My levels were found to be near 550 pg/ml). I also talked to my doctor and UPJOHN nurses a lot about using testosterone at these doses. Here's a brief bit of what I've learned from my doctor, the UPJOHN nursing staff (UPJOHN was the original manufacturer of Depo-testosterone a.k.a Testosterone Cypionate. The rights of Depo-testosterone was sold to PFIZER which now produces it under the name PHARMACIA), and professional medical documents:

*--NOTE: pg/ml is the correct unit notation.

Using a long acting ester testosterone (CYP and ENAN) does not mimic the normally functioning male body's circadian rhythm (daily rise and fall of testosterone). Testosterone, in a normally functioning body, does not explode up to high levels then gradually fall over a 1-2 week period as it does when injecting a testosterone such as CYP or ENAN. On the contrary, the body produces a small amount each day which is far below 200mg (It's around 10mg). That small amount is concentrated at the beginning of the day and then falls low by the end of the day. This process repeats itself every day and by the end of two weeks, a normally functioning body produces approximately 140mg of testosterone (appx. 70mg per week).

The use of long acting esters are in theory supposed to slowly release the testosterone over a two week period, but this is not quite what happens. To keep it simple, the delay of the esters actually allows large amounts of testosterone to build up--especially if you are taking 200mg every week as opposed to once every two weeks (biweekly) which is what the dose is supposed to be. (I'm simplifying here). Remember the "normally functioning" male produces only (appx.) 70mg per week (=140mg per two weeks). The dose doctors are recommended to perscribe is 200mg every 2 weeks (biweekly), but they tend to give 200mg every week.

So, it is fallacious reasoning to compare the TOTAL amount of testosterone produced in daily spurts in a normally functioning body over a 2 week period to the same amount of testosterone injected in one shot at the beginning of a week and reshot every week (before the previous week's dose is used up). The latter case (injections once per week) results in an overlap and build up of dose which causes the levels of testosterone to be HIGHER than normal. (Remember the shots should actually be 200mg every TWO weeks--not every week). These excess levels of testosterone are sufficient to build lean body mass faster than the "normally functioning" male.

In other words: addding up what the average male body produces per week then comparing that to the amount that is shot every week is like comparing apples to oranges. There is a whole diferent set of advantageous reactions happening in the body when it is given a full
2-week load (200mg) at the beginning of a week as opposed to getting naturally occuring, small, daily spurts of appx 10mg over the same period of time (2 weeks).

This is why a low dose cycle can yeild REASONABLE gains. Understand, I'm not talking mega-huge-fast gains. I'm talking noticably-faster-than-normal gains, which when coupled with a strict diet, sufficient rest and an excellent bodybuilding work ethic, can yeild large, solid gains (especially early in a person's cycle experience).

[rado]

Originally posted by quietflight
Gyno, but mainly getting my balls back.

I'm lookin to put on 15-20lbs and then lean out/harden up just in time for Spring break in March

HCG will work for the balls..


If you want to put on some lean mass on your 1st cycle, stick with test at 10 weeks for 500mgs, keep it simple.

No need for the deca/winny the 1st time, keep it for the second cycle....

If you still want that lean mass, take the enanthate or prop(if you wouldn't mind EOD shots) and take some clen or T3 for a fat burner.

Good luck....If you're having issue getting enanthate, go with cyp.

[Cmsmallzz]

Bro I am not suggesting that he megadose his test but I think if he runs 200mg per week he is going to be rather dissappointed in the results. Jumping up to 500mg per week is going to bring with it no added side effects and his gains will be far superior while this is still a conservative dose. Not doubting what you state are not facts Bro, I'm just trying to learn.

[quietflight]

Originally posted by Cmsmallzz
[B Also why are you running the Arimidex for 14 weeks??? [/b]

if the test stays active within my blood for an additional 2 weeks after my last injection, there is still room for estrogen conversion.

[quietflight]

Just as a point of reference, what are all of your cycle experience. No disprespect, but i dont' listen to people who have no personal experience with anabolics. Anyone can read something off the net and act "knowledgeable" able the subject.

And as for the Test comments. I really don't want to bloat(what much) My diet is clean and so are my buddies but some of my best buddies have bloated alot from it. Not to meantion they loose a lot of that muscle gain when they come off of it.

Keep in mind i'm looking for QUALITY above anything else, shit that i can keep(although losses are inevitable), and maintain an acceptable appearance.

Think spring break hardness

[quietflight]

also i'd like to get some veteran posters into here for more opinions.

[Cmsmallzz]

Originally posted by quietflight
also i'd like to get some veteran posters into here for more opinions.

Bro the advice that you recieved on this thread was some of the best advice your going to find...don't gauge a person's experience or veteran status by the number of posts on this board. I can tell you that I have been using gear for about 6 years and been in the game for about 10. I was posting on A.com when you were prob still in elemetary school. And there are many other veterans that don't have high post counts...lol. The reason I asked you about the A-dex is beacuase your last shot of test is in week 8 or 9...If the test can remain active for 2 weeks...DO THE MATH...Why are you running it for 14....9 + 2 = 11. Not to mention the fact that at 200mg you shouldn't even have to worry about water retention. Your worrying about estrogen conversion from winstrol??? Did you know that structurally stanazol is not capapble of converting to estrogen! Therefore there is no need for an AI. So you can hope for more Veteran posters and they are going to give you the same advice. Drop the winstrol and deca and stick to the basics. As far as the clomid therapy being not being necessary for the amount of test...where you aware that the deca is probably going to shut you down faster than the test. People like you make me not even want to post anymore. Every newbie gets sounds advice and then questions it when it is not what they want to hear.

[quietflight]

that comment wasn't directed toward you...it was a general statement.

Yes, i do know winstrol does not aromatize
Yes, i am aware that the deca will shut me down
The arimidex comment was a typo, an error on my part.

Sorry if you where offended.

And yes, due to the comments in this thread, my decision to run this particular cycle has been questioned.

[Cmsmallzz]

Originally posted by quietflight
that comment wasn't directed toward you...it was a general statement.

Yes, i do know winstrol does not aromatize
Yes, i am aware that the deca will shut me down
The arimidex comment was a typo, an error on my part.

Sorry if you where offended.

And yes, due to the comments in this thread, my decision to run this particular cycle has been questioned.

That's cool Bro...Sorry for the outlash. Today has no been a good day...LOL

I understand how you feel with worrying about side effects...But trust me @ 400-500mg of test you will be fine. Bloat should not be a problem and if you want go ahead and run the .25mg of A-dex ED. Also just keep nolvadex around in case of gyno symptoms.

Good luck with your cycle