Next cycle what do you think?

[combatstang]

start off with


supertest 1-5 week

week 5-10 throw in Tren

week 9- 14 finish with Winstrol




i have some lion nutrion Clen, when should i throw that in, im think at the end of the cycle.. but can i do it throught the whole cycle?


Marc

[therock]

I my opinion this is a very bad thought out cycle. I were to run this aas I would run them like this.
test wks 1-13
tren ed wks 1-6
winny wks 7-12
If I was to throw clen in the mix it would be when I start the winny and I would do it 2wks on 2wks off 2 times and thats it.
Now when you say supertest you mean sust250 from tornel? Or something different. Also if you run your cycle like you say then you will have a limp dick and if you start clen w/o test you run the risk of going catabolic.

[combatstang]

ok, good call... limp dick is caused by tren alone am i correct? thats why I should run sust250 the whole way thru?


thanks rock

that makes alot more sense

[joe bigboy]

the cycle that the rock has there looks better.... if you were to only run the supertest for 5 weeks you would be coming off just as it had fully started to kick in

[combatstang]

Originally posted by joe bigboy
the cycle that the rock has there looks better.... if you were to only run the supertest for 5 weeks you would be coming off just as it had fully started to kick in

Ya it does look much better....


excuss my ignorance but what is "Catabolic" I know the difenetion but when you say it will make me go catabloic what will that do exactly?

Marc

[therock]

It will eat your muscles away, in english.

[therock]

It means it will eat your muscles, in english.

[combatstang]

Clen eats ur muscle awy? how soo?... I took clen after my last cycle to cut up some more and worked good.. im sure i lost a little muscle.. but got leaner!!

Marc

[Pumpdogg]

Combat when you are on steriods you cortisol levels are high as well as your estrogen levels. If you used clen at the end of a cycle you are already going to be cataboic ( in a negative state if you will) until your pct starts to kick in and your body starts regulating its hormones. You have to remember that there is more than just test that has to try and normalize here... with that if you threw clen on top of the situation you would just be eating up more muscle as your body was trying to rebound and from what i have read clen as well as the popular eca stack all affect your adrenal glands in a negative manner. Take the advice from these guys that know ( therock and joebigboy) and change things up. I will try and get you the information regarding your adrenal glands today if I have time and some more info on clen unless someone beats me to it. I am not an expert regarding all of this just trying to help with what little knowledge I have. Good luck

PD

Edit: I did a quick check somewhere else and some people really like clen for pct. Maybe I am wrong in the first post I made. I dont have allot of time at the moment to really research this as I am at work and only get to the computer a few time a day. Maybe one of the more knowledgeable bros can pick up from here. I will try to find the info and post it as I stated earlier when I get home tonight. Like I said I am not the expert here.... maybe I should shut up then

PD

[Pumpdogg]

Okay here we go I have spent my break trying to find out some more solid info regarding clen. Without posting a bunch of clincal data that is hard to get allot from here is something simple to read about it. It was posted my Budlite74 at musclesci, it appears I was wrong about clen eating up more of your muslce when you are catabolic because many use it as part of their pct because they say it is a strong anti-catabolic agent, others say it is negeible (s). You can be the judge of that.



Clenbuterol is a very interesting and remarkable compound. It is not a steroid hormone but a beta-2-symphatomimetic. Clenbuterol, above all, has a strong anti-catabolic effect, which means it decreases the rate at which protein is reduced in the muscle cell, consequently causing an enlargement of muscle cells. For this reason, numerous athletes use Clenbuterol after steroid treatment to balance the resulting catabolic phase and thus obtain maximum strength and muscle mass. A further aspect of Clenbuterol is its distinct fat-burning effect. Clenbuterol burns fat without dieting because it increases the body temperature slightly, forcing the body to burn fat for this process. Due to the higher body temperature Clenbuterol magnifies the effect of anabolic/androgenic steroids taken simultaneously, since the protein processing is increased.

And one more post by df2003 at msuclesci



clen handbook/by bigandy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is Clenbuterol?

Clenbuterol is a beta-2 agonist and is used in many countries as a broncodilator
for the treatment of asthma. Because of it's long half life, clenbuterol is not
FDA approved for medical use. It is a central nervous system stimulant and acts
like adrenaline. It shares many of the same side effects as other CNS stimulants
like ephedrine. Contrary to popular belief, Clenbuterol has a half life of 35
hours and not 48 hours.

Dosing and Cycling

Clenbuterol comes in 20mcg tablets, although it is also available in syrup, pump
and injectable form. It's also available as a powder in some areas. Doses are
very dependent on how well the user responds to the side effects, but somewhere
in the range of 4-8 tablets per day for men and 2-4 tablets a day for women is
most common. Clenbuterol loses its thermogenic effects after around 8 weeks when
body temperature drops back to normal. Its anabolic/anti-catabolic properties
fade away at around the 18 day mark. Taking the long half life into
consideration, the most effective way of cycling clen is 2 weeks on/ 2 weeks off
for no more than 12 weeks. Ephedrine or Yohimbine can be used in the off weeks.

Clenbuterol vs Ephedrine vs DNP

Ephedrine will raise metabolic levels by about 2-3 percent and 200mg of DNP
raises metabolic levels by about 30 percent. Clenbuterol raises metabolic levels
about 10 percent and it can raise body temperature several degrees.

DNP is by far the most effective fat burner but many people will never use it
because of the risks associated with it. It also offers no anti-catabolic
benefit. Although it does have anti-catabolic effect, ephedrine's short
half-life prevents it from being all that effective.

As far as side effects, Clenbuterol's are certainly milder than DNP's, and some
would even say milder than an ECA stack. There is no ECA-style crash on
Clenbuterol and many users find it easier on the prostate and sex drive. This
may in part be due to the fact that Clen is generally used for only 2 weeks at a
time.

Side effects

NAUSEA
NERVOUSNESS
DIZZINESS
DROWSINESS
DRY MOUTH
FACIAL FLUSHING
HEADACHE
HEARTBURN
INCREASED BLOOD PRESSURE
INCREASED SWEATING
INSOMNIA
LIGHTHEADEDNESS
MUSCLE CRAMPS
TREMORS
VOMITING
CHEST PAIN

The most significant side effects are muscle cramps, nervousness, headaches, and
increased blood pressure.

Muscle cramps can be avoided by drinking 1.5-2 gallons of water and consuming
bananas and oranges or supplementing with potassium tablets at 200-400mg a
day taken before bed on an empty stomach. Taurine at 3-5grams is a necessity in
minimizing cramps.

Headaches can easily be avoided with Tylenol Extra Strength taking at the first
signs of a headache.

Common Uses

Post-Cycle Therapy: Clen is used post cycle to aid in recovery. It allows the
user to continue eating large amounts of food, without worrying about adding
body fat. It also helps the user maintain more of his strength as well as his
intensity in the gym. Diet: Roughly the same as on cycle.

Fat loss: The most popular use for Clen, it also increases muscle hardness,
vascularity, strength and size on a caloric deficit. For the most significant
fat loss, Clen can be stacked with T3. Diet: A high protein(1.5g per lb of
bodyweight), moderate carb(0.5g to 1g per lb of bodyweight), low fat diet(0.25g
per lb of bodyweight) seems to work best with Clen.

Alternative to Steroids: Clenbuterol has mild steroid-like properties and can be
used by non-AS using bodybuilder to increase LBM as well as strength and muscle
hardness. Diet: A moderate carb, high protein, moderate fat diet work well.

Stimulant/Performance Enhancement: It can be used as a stimulant, but an ECA
stack may be a better choice because of it's much shorter half-life. Diet: To
take full advantage of the stimulatory effects of Clen, carbohydrates must be
included in the diet. Ketogenic diets do not work well in this case.

Precautions: Is Clen for you?

The same precautions that apply to Ephedrine must be applied to Clen, although
some people find ECA stacks are harsher than Clen. It should not be stacked
with other CNS stimulants such as Ephedrine and Yohimbine. These combinations
are unnecessary and potentially dangerous. Caffeine can be used in moderation
before a workout for an extra quick. burst of energy.

A word on Ketotifen

Ketotifen is safe antihistamine used extensively some European countries to
treat asthma and allergies. It can up regulate beta-2-receptors that Clen down
regulates. Basically, it allows users to extend their use of Clen for 6-8 weeks
at a time. 2-3mg a day is ideal, 10mg as found in "superclen" can make users
extremely drowsy. It also increases the effectiveness of Clen so doses must be
adjusted accordingly. The downfall of this drug is its ability to induce
extreme hunger is some people, which is not a desirable state to be in when
dieting.

Cycling Clenbuterol

Most users that report bad side effects and discontinue use are those who use
high doses right at the start of the cycle. The worst side effects occur within
the first 3-4 days of use.

A first time user should not exceed 40mcg the first day. Increase by one tab
until the side effects are not tolerable

Example of a first cycle:

Day1: 20mcg
Day2: 40mcg
Day3: 60mcg
Day4: 80mcg
Day5: 80mcg(Note: Increase the dose only when the side effects are tolerable)
Day6-Day12: 100mcg
Day13: 80 mcg (Tapering is not necessary, but it helps some users get back to
normal gradually)
Day14: 60 mcgs
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

Example of a second cycle:

Day1: 60mcg
Day2: 80mcg
Day3: 80mcg
Day4: 100mcg
Day5: 100mcg
Day6-Day12: 120mcg
Day13: 100 mcg
Day14: 80 mcgs
Day15: off
Day16: off
Day 17: ECA/ NYC stack

What else do I need to know?

Taurine MUST be used with Clen at 3-5g daily. Clenbuterol depletes taurine
levels in the liver which stops the conversion of T4 to T3 in the liver.
Taurine allows the user to avoid the dreaded rebound effect and painful muscle
cramps. It's a must with Clen.

Clenbuterol should not be taken too close to a workout. It can interfere with
your breathing and complete ruin your workout. When doing cardio, it's
advisable to stay at a consistent pace and avoid HIIT style routines.

Do not take Clen Past 4pm and drink plenty of water; 1.5-2 gallons a day

I hope this helps you bro, next time I will be positive b4 I open my mouth. I dont like giving the wrong info out. We are all here to learn, but I dont want to be like allot of people who just post whatever whenever. There is a ton of info on clen, I would suggest reading as much until you fill confident and going from there. Good luck

PD

[house1]

if you start clen w/o test you run the risk of going catabolic.

this is false -- running it without test will not put you in a catabolic state

Clenbuterol is a very interesting and remarkable compound. It is not a steroid hormone but a beta-2-symphatomimetic. Clenbuterol, above all, has a strong anti-catabolic effect, which means it decreases the rate at which protein is reduced in the muscle cell, .

most guys run it post cycle just for its anticatabolic properties -- post cycle your body goe into a very catabolic state -- clen helps ease that

[house1]

also increase your dose by 20 mcgs ed till you find a dose that you can barely tolerate -- when you do find it back off by 20 mcgs and run that dose for 2 weeks on 2 weeks off

when going back on after your 2 week layoff no need to work your way up-- just start off with the dose you stopped with before your layoff

[Pumpdogg]

Thanks for picking this up House. I must have had a brain fart in my first post.

PD

[therock]

I am not a scientist but I will say this. I know for a fact that it is anti-catabolic in rats but when the studies on humans came to be, it showed that it was in fact catabolic when used by itself. I will try and find the link on this asap!

[combatstang]

ok guys im confused.. this is important that we get to the bottom of this...

is it safe to do at the end of the cycle or not..

i want (ed) to throw it in at the end during the last 2 weeks of winny.. to cut up somemore...

i have also heard that it helps ur catabolic rates post cycle... hmm

Thanks guys

Marc

[therock]

Yes it is safe to take during your cycle and right after pct. I wouldnt take it while pct as you are recovering and trying to get out of catabolic state.

[ROCKETW19]

clen is anabolic and a thermogenic meaning you will burn fat while keepin or gaining muscle. this is a proven fact in animals. humans are different i know of no studies but that dont mean they arnt out there. i use clen always after/durring pct! i think you might be confused with T-3.

[Pumpdogg]

Originally posted by combatstang
ok guys im confused.. this is important that we get to the bottom of this...

is it safe to do at the end of the cycle or not..

i want (ed) to throw it in at the end during the last 2 weeks of winny.. to cut up somemore...

i have also heard that it helps ur catabolic rates post cycle... hmm

Thanks guys

Marc

Marc it will be fine to use it as you have asked in the above post. I am sorry for my first post. I was wrong that is why I added the edit and the clen info later. House1 gave the best advice in this thread. I would disregard the comments on clen being catabolic,, it is not. It is a great drug to use at the end of your cycle as you want to do and many many many bodybuilders use it as part of their pct. Later bro

PD

[therock]

I just talked to a couple of BB and they are half and half on this question on clen. One told me like house1 said the other said he used it with other aas, but never used it alone but says the reason for that is cause thinks it is catabolic. But after reading a lot of info on clen I have come to say I dont know for sure. I will find out real soon cause I will be on it in about 2wks so I will let yall know what happens.