Rant about media coverage

[Puma]

Not sure if anyone saw it, but last night there was an interview on CNBC with a guy called Donny, talking to Jose Canseco about steroids in baseball. Although the interview was pretty good, one of the points that was driving me nuts was Donny kept harping on the "save the kids" idea by getting steroids off the streats. He also mentioned the suicides by teens using steroids when they go off the drugs. Now, I will never endorse steroids for kids; but come on, lets take the blinders off! How many kids die every day in drunk driving accidents? How many will start drinking at 16 and spend the next 20 years of their lives as alcholics just trying to get a day sober. How many will start smoking at 14 and spend the rest of their lives trying to quit? Take your head out of the sand, if 100 kids a year kill themselves because of steroids (which is a totally subjective question; how in the hell do you know its the steroids that made them kill themselves) its still NOTHING compared to the damage that the 2 legal drugs cause every day.

I am so sick of this idea that steroids have to be illegal because otherwise kids will use them. We all know why steroids are illegal; to protect professional sports and the santicatiy of the games. Do you think that they give a shit about these drugs hurting you? They don't, trust me, they just can't stomach the idea of all these guys walking around who can run a 4 min mile; jump 15 feet, hit home runs, etc. How are pro sports fun to watch when you can go the local ballfield and watch them throw 100mph and hit 500 foot homeruns? They have to keep pro sports stars as the pinnacle of talent, if everyone BUT them was on steroids it would no longer be fun to watch these guys (because the guy living in the next house over would be bigger then an NFL linebacker, and faster too).

Anyway, here is the e-mail that I sent to this Donny guy; if your interested I suggest you e-mail him as well on your take of steroids in sports.

Thanks for letting me rant!


------BEGIN COPY-----
Donny,



I have never seen your show before, but watched it tonight because I was very curious to hear the stance taken on steroids in baseball. Overall, I thought the program was very good, but would like to make a few points.



First, you beat the idea a bit about “saving the kids” by stopping steroid use by adults. I would NEVER advocate steroids for kids (anyone under 21 or so) but, the point I really think you missed, is we have MUCH bigger issues then steroids for children. Your argument was that if kids see their sports hero’s as steroid users then they are likely to follow in their footsteps. I do agree with this however let’s examine some other issues before we pull the trigger on the “epidemic” of steroid use in children. My first comparison would be to alchol, a legal drug with age restrictions. We have (according to you) a “few hundred” deaths from steroids in children. How many kids die each week in drunk driving/binge drinking accidents? Further, how many of those young drinkers will go on to be alcoholics? Don’t you think that they see their favorite spots stars in magazines selling beer? Isn’t this a FAR bigger problem then the steroid use? Also, on that same angle, how many kids look through magazines and see models/actors, etc selling/using cigarettes, one of the most addictive and dangerous drugs available?



Next, let’s take a look at a FAR more dangerous problem in this country, but one that very closely relates to the “steroid epidemic”. I am speaking of what soon will be the number one cause of preventable death, obesity. A child today is far more likely to die with clogged arteries from a Big Mac (which we know, scientifically is a FACT) then from a possible brain tumor or liver failure from steroids (which is, although probably correct, not even a proven medical fact). My main problem here is that the image that young adults have to live up to is totally unrealistic without steroid use. Most young adults want to look their best, but we give them an “standard” that is unrealistic without steroids. They try the gym for a year, and find out that they look nothing like their idols. Then the either pack it up and start packing on the pounds, or become serious and start looking for “other” methods to get the desired look. If you pick up any sports/bodybuilding/lifestyle magazine and flip through the pages, I can promise you that most of the men in that magazine are on steroids. It’s so obvious, and yet, we all look the other way. However, there is a very serious problem with this, and one that has not been addressed by the media at all to this point. Young men (and older men to a certain extent) feel like these magazines represent the ideal male image. I know, as do most people who bodybuild, that its totally impossible to look like this without steroids. Much like the epidemics that have come before (waif models, heroin chic) obtaining the “ideal” male look requires steroid use, and as such, is illegal. I really feel that this is a great disservice to this country; we are creating a nation of obese individuals because most people just can’t understand how Tom Cruise or Chrisian Bale (who put on something like 110 lbs in 14 months) can get so “cut” and “ripped”. Again its so obvious is almost painful, but people just look the other way (check out Tom Cruise in the beginning on Mission Impossible when he is climbing the rock wall. More like “Mission not so Impossible because of help from steroids”.)



I go to the gym every day, and I watch people come in, work out for 3-4 months, get annoyed that they look nothing like the “hardcore” gym rats and leave. Unfortunately, I think most of the time its not that they want to look like the serious bodybuilders, they just want to see some results which come about very, very slowly without steroid use (and a perfect diet). They conclude it’s not worth it and go back to Big Mac’s and milkshakes. Let me tell you, its almost impossible to “get noticed” by a girl walking around in a natural body. Women are so conditioned from TV that they most men who work out don’t even look “in shape” to them anymore. Not that this has not happened to men (boob jobs are almost the norm for a “good looking” woman now), but here is the MAJOR difference: plastic surgery is LEGAL, steroids are NOT. Finally, to close this point, take a look at the incidence of death from complications from plastic surgery compared the incidence of death from “steroids”. You will find that plastic surgery is a far more serious “epidemic” in our country then steroid use.



I will leave you with one final thought. If I had 10 thousand dollars, I could pay a surgeon to implant 22” biceps in my arms. However, if this procedure is more dangerous then me paying 1 thousand dollars for the steroids to “earn” those arms, why is the surgery legal and the steroids not?



Oh, last thing. Those guys in the majors are not clean by any means now. They are certainly taking growth hormone (there is no reliable test), probably Long IGF-1, and certainly insulin. Why the hell are we looking at baseball anyway?? Want to see some serious juicers, look at football!

Thanks for the time,

-----END COPY-----


Donny's email address (in case you want to give him a piece of your mind) is:

donny@cnbc.com


Puma

[redman9]

That sucks homie!!!

[YellowJacket]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately steroids are illegal for a reason and due to that, they bring no money into the economy on a annual basis. Alcohol and tobacco on the other hand, bring in billions. To compare steroids to alcohol and tobacco is comical. If the government were to ban tobacco products and alcohol, which will never happen as long as this world is round, the economy would see such a depression that it would never recover. Billions and billions of dollars would be lost as well as a myriad of jobs.

Im not defending alcohol and tobacco and their use, but you cant logially compare them to steroids.

[BBAddict]

well, then tax them and make them legal! I'll pay the extra taxes to be allowed to use w/o government intervention.

[YellowJacket]

Originally Posted by BBAddict

well, then tax them and make them legal! I'll pay the extra taxes to be allowed to use w/o government intervention.

There's no benefit to legalizing steroids. The cons far outweigh the pros. Im glad steroids are illegal and they should certainly remain that way. Just read around these boards and look at what ignorance there is concerning anabolic use, and thats JUST on these boards. Besides if you legalize steroids, might as well legalize cocaine and Xanax too.

[BBAddict]

Originally Posted by YellowJacket

There's no benefit to legalizing steroids. The cons far outweigh the pros. Im glad steroids are illegal and they should certainly remain that way. Just read around these boards and look at what ignorance there is concerning anabolic use, and thats JUST on these boards. Besides if you legalize steroids, might as well legalize cocaine and Xanax too.

Yeah, but is the ignorance about steroids any worse than the ignorance about alchohol? I suppose my reasoning supports making alchohol illegal more so than legalizing steroids, but is it the governments job to protect us from making any stupid decisions with our health? If so, why are twinkies legal?!

[kutulu]

Originally Posted by YellowJacket

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but unfortunately steroids are illegal for a reason and due to that, they bring no money into the economy on a annual basis. Alcohol and tobacco on the other hand, bring in billions. To compare steroids to alcohol and tobacco is comical. If the government were to ban tobacco products and alcohol, which will never happen as long as this world is round, the economy would see such a depression that it would never recover. Billions and billions of dollars would be lost as well as a myriad of jobs.

Im not defending alcohol and tobacco and their use, but you cant logially compare them to steroids.

It seems to me that you are missing the whole point of his argument. The point is this, that the U.S. Government, society and the media are hypocrites!Here they are demonizing the use of anabolics, which if used in a sensible manner by adults, have no significant health effects whatsoever. Not to mention that they also have a legitimate medical use in cancer patients, burn patients and HIV patients. How ironic it is that to use anabolics legally, you have to be dieing!! Anyway they ignore the fact that tens of thousands of people are dieing each year because of alcohol and tobacco! The reason put forth by the government and media for making steroids illegal is because they are so "Dangerous and Deadly!" Why then aren't there thousands of athletes and regular "gym rats" dropping dead every year? You would be hard pressed to find 20 people that have died from the DIRECT use of steroids in the 50 years of their non-medical use! The real issue here is that the regular guys, who just want to use steroids for physique enhancement,are being turned into criminals and sent to jail!! For many of them, their whole lives are destroyed. We all should have the right to enhance our physiques with anabolics, even if there are negative health effects to our bodies. Just as people who smoke cigarrettes know how dangerous smoking is, they still have the right to choose to destroy themselves. Puma wasn't suggesting that alcohol and tobacco become illegal, but to wake the fuck up and recognize that the true danger to health is alcohol and tobacco not steroids! Make steroids legal and let adults make their own informed decisions! Throwing people in jail for wanting to be bigger, stronger and more muscular is a travesty of justice and a terrible waste of taxpayers money!!!

[kutulu]

Originally Posted by YellowJacket

There's no benefit to legalizing steroids. The cons far outweigh the pros. Im glad steroids are illegal and they should certainly remain that way. Just read around these boards and look at what ignorance there is concerning anabolic use, and thats JUST on these boards. Besides if you legalize steroids, might as well legalize cocaine and Xanax too.

Please, tell us the cons of legalizing steroids! You'll probably mention that it wouldn't make the playing field "level" for athletes. Fine, let the individual sports organizations ban them and impose fines and suspensions! But would it surprise you to know that the majority of users are males between the ages of 23 and 40 who are just everyday regular blue collar workers who only use them to enhance their physique. They don't compete in any professional sports, so who are they cheating? Themselves? Isn't that up to them to decide? Of course, many people are ignorant to the use of steroids, just like there are many people ignorant to the use of supplements. That's why I always say you need to make an informed decision but there are always going to be lazy people who don't educate themselves. That's the purpose of these boards, to try to inform and even then, some don't listen. It is illogical to compare cocaine and xanax to steroids!! How could you even make such a comment?!!!? Cocaine is a NARCOTIC!!! Steroids are synthetic derivitives of TESTOSTERONE, the male sex hormone!! Male sex hormones don't get you high, they don't make you hallucinate, they aren't physically addictive, you don't see colors and they don't impair your ability to operate a motor vehicle!! Crimes are committed every single day because of narcotics like Cocaine! When was the last time you heard of a pharmacy being robbed for its supply of steroids!!???!! How about them notorious steroid gangs doing drive-by shootings, killing innocent people on the streets and robbing poor old grandma for "roid money"! Invest in some common sense! You say you are the Supplement Guru? What would happen if your precious supplements were to become illegal? Guess what, It's happening in the European Union! In certain countries you now need a prescription to get vitamins. Why? Because, they say people can't be trusted to "medicate" themselves. There were proposed bills on the floor of Congress to make illegal bodybuilding supplements! It may not happen, but for them to put it out there is scary! If it did , you would then become a criminal for posession of Creatine! When you say that you are glad that steroids are illegal it sounds to me like you are saying, " I' m glad they are throwing those bastard roid users in prison and destroying their lives for simply wanting to be bigger and stronger!! " Think about what you are saying before you say it! I'd also suggest that you do some research, because it sounds to me like you are the ignorant one! I'll refer back to the cocaine comment!!!

[Puma]

Yeah, I think your getting the gist of it here. The other thing that I propose is that not only are they deamonizing its use, but they are pushing more and more mainstream the "steroid enhanced" body type. So now, instead of wanting to look like Marlin Brando (not now, back when he was a "hunk") kids want to look like Tom Cruise/Nelly/Mark Walberg, etc. These guys are all obvious users of "something", I can't say for sure its a steroid, and I can gauntee that they are getting it legally (money talks) but if they could pass an Olympic drug test I would have a heart attack and die (could it be the juice that killed me?).

Honestly, I think that this is a very double edged sword. Yeah, I am happy that the bodybuilder physique is becoming more mainstream (because I have it). However, I know what it took to get like this; which is tons of time and dedication (which most people don't have) and some anabolic drugs (which most people can't get). Let me tell you, I NEVER lie about my steroid use to my friends (ok, I have to say casual aquantainces, I do lie, and at work I lie, but that's it). I don't want people to set themselves up for failure. Here is my quick analogy in this area.

It's like if someone walked up to Chris Comeir and asked him how he got that big. Chris responds with "Take these drugs, eat this diet, and your good to go". Well, you forgot something really important there, GO WORKOUT! So the guy follows the plan the "Pros" use, and get nothing like the results they want. Why? Because they don't have the whole story. They get discouraged, pissed off, and give it up. When we lie to people about what we are taking its almost like a slap in the face. Yeah, I am 5'11" 230 lbs and I am all natural. People then try to emulate us, and they fail miserably, because we are not telling them what we are REALLY doing to get this way.

So now we have this ideal for men that is not only a bit crazy, but its totally unattainable without breaking the law and risking your freedom. Is it any wonder that most people just give up and drown their sorrys in milkshakes. I feel like I am one of the lucky ones because I wanted it so bad I was willing to try anything. Once I found out what worked I was amazed at my body, and all the attention and praise I get for it. Who would give it up now? Everyone notices, most people like it (some think your too big) and it feels great. How does it feel to go to the gym for years and have someone walk up to you and be suprised that you work out at all?

I don't care that the ideal is hard to achive, its supposed to be hard! But don't make me break the law to do it! My gf can go get 40DDD tits implanted, get all the fat sucked out, get her stomach stapled, face peeled back and put back on, and come out looking like a supermodel (you get the idea). No problem, we are all for it. Is it dangerous?? Hell yeah it is. My point is, the ideal for women does involved danger and risk, but none of it LEGAL risk. They can go to any doctor, check references, and decide if its worth it. We are criminilized just for trying to look like those we idol. Its a shame, and it has to stop.

Puma

Originally Posted by kutulu

It seems to me that you are missing the whole point of his argument. The point is this, that the U.S. Government, society and the media are hypocrites!Here they are demonizing the use of anabolics, which if used in a sensible manner by adults, have no significant health effects whatsoever. Not to mention that they also have a legitimate medical use in cancer patients, burn patients and HIV patients. How ironic it is that to use anabolics legally, you have to be dieing!! Anyway they ignore the fact that tens of thousands of people are dieing each year because of alcohol and tobacco! The reason put forth by the government and media for making steroids illegal is because they are so "Dangerous and Deadly!" Why then aren't there thousands of athletes and regular "gym rats" dropping dead every year? You would be hard pressed to find 20 people that have died from the DIRECT use of steroids in the 50 years of their non-medical use! The real issue here is that the regular guys, who just want to use steroids for physique enhancement,are being turned into criminals and sent to jail!! For many of them, their whole lives are destroyed. We all should have the right to enhance our physiques with anabolics, even if there are negative health effects to our bodies. Just as people who smoke cigarrettes know how dangerous smoking is, they still have the right to choose to destroy themselves. Puma wasn't suggesting that alcohol and tobacco become illegal, but to wake the fuck up and recognize that the true danger to health is alcohol and tobacco not steroids! Make steroids legal and let adults make their own informed decisions! Throwing people in jail for wanting to be bigger, stronger and more muscular is a travesty of justice and a terrible waste of taxpayers money!!!

[BBAddict]

Interesting points, Puma. Unfortunately, I think we're only going to keep losing freedoms-I doubt we'll ever get any back!

[Puma]

Your right, in my mind I know your right. But it does not stop me from trying to change things.

I fear that unless we can get a very strong lobby (read, big time cash) behind this issue it will never change. The pro sports lobbies have SO much power, and so much money, its almost impossible that this issue will ever change. People are so blinded by what they hear on TV (the steroids are out of control in high schools, kids are getting "addicted" to juice at an alarming rate, another kid just dropped dead from juice, etc) that I doubt it will ever change.

The really telling fact is that everyone who argues against steroids is always talking about "the children" and the need to keep them safe from these drugs, or the sports heros who records need to be "protected". What about the good adults that are thrown in jail every day for violating these laws? What about keeping them safe? They were kids once too you know! And for the sports heros? Who cares, its a damn game. And if you want to test them, go ahead, I really think that steroids don't belong in pro sports anyway (but they do make them very exciting!). But to make us all criminals because of 2 very, very isolated problems is total BS.

Here's the real point; people get crazy when you tell them something endangers their children. Its the only way to get people to care about this issue. Most people, quite simply, do not give a fuck if we all do juice until blood runs out of our eyeballs. But tell them we are giving it to their kids, and they go banannas, and you have overwhleming public support for a total ban (or tell them its "destroying" their sports heros). I honestly feel like if people knew the truth that they would support a gradual softening of the laws on steroids. Honestly, the public just needs to back it, nobody has to change any laws. How many cops you know that want to spend their time busting "steroid dealers"? Not many, I can promise you that (unless they think their kids are being "delt" to). Come on, we mostly good people, we don't want people to get hurt, and they know that. Just take away the political backing for this shit and it would become a "non-issue" crime.

For a sample of this, look in NYC. Pot is still illegal there, but I promise you walk though any park and you will see people smoking it almost openly. The cops priorities have been shifted. Now, if your doing something else wrong, your going to jail. Kind of like seatbelt laws in some states; if your pulled over for something else, you can get a ticket for it. But its not a primary offense, they can't just charge you with that.

Originally Posted by BBAddict

Interesting points, Puma. Unfortunately, I think we're only going to keep losing freedoms-I doubt we'll ever get any back!

[YellowJacket]

Originally Posted by BBAddict

Yeah, but is the ignorance about steroids any worse than the ignorance about alchohol? I suppose my reasoning supports making alchohol illegal more so than legalizing steroids, but is it the governments job to protect us from making any stupid decisions with our health? If so, why are twinkies legal?!

well I certainly dont agree w/ everything the government does, if it was up to me, there'd be no such thing as fast food.... but thats certainly not logical.

[YellowJacket]

Originally Posted by kutulu

It seems to me that you are missing the whole point of his argument. The point is this, that the U.S. Government, society and the media are hypocrites!Here they are demonizing the use of anabolics, which if used in a sensible manner by adults, have no significant health effects whatsoever.

I think you are the one missing the point.... anabolic steroids are illegal. To say AAS have no significant side effects is comical. No matter how they are used there are always risks. There is, and never will be, a valid argument for the legalization of anabolic steroids. They simply do not have enough rewards to overshawdow the risk.

Not to mention that they also have a legitimate medical use in cancer patients, burn patients and HIV patients.

Um yes they do, thats why these individuals get prescriptions.

How ironic it is that to use anabolics legally, you have to be dieing!! Anyway they ignore the fact that tens of thousands of people are dieing each year because of alcohol and tobacco! The reason put forth by the government and media for making steroids illegal is because they are so "Dangerous and Deadly!" Why then aren't there thousands of athletes and regular "gym rats" dropping dead every year? You would be hard pressed to find 20 people that have died from the DIRECT use of steroids in the 50 years of their non-medical use! The real issue here is that the regular guys, who just want to use steroids for physique enhancement,are being turned into criminals and sent to jail!! For many of them, their whole lives are destroyed. We all should have the right to enhance our physiques with anabolics, even if there are negative health effects to our bodies. Just as people who smoke cigarrettes know how dangerous smoking is, they still have the right to choose to destroy themselves. Puma wasn't suggesting that alcohol and tobacco become illegal, but to wake the fuck up and recognize that the true danger to health is alcohol and tobacco not steroids! Make steroids legal and let adults make their own informed decisions! Throwing people in jail for wanting to be bigger, stronger and more muscular is a travesty of justice and a terrible waste of taxpayers money!!!

This is simply a waste of my time and is too far out in left field to even be addressed.

[YellowJacket]

Originally Posted by kutulu

Please, tell us the cons of legalizing steroids! You'll probably mention that it wouldn't make the playing field "level" for athletes. Fine, let the individual sports organizations ban them and impose fines and
suspensions!

This has nothing to do with sports. Sports and athletics has no argument. What about high school kids who want to look better, or frail individuals who want to bulk up? Im talking every day life. Like I said before, to argue for the legalization of steroids is comical.

But would it surprise you to know that the majority of users are males between the ages of 23 and 40 who are just everyday regular blue collar workers who only use them to enhance their physique.

Cite this information with a valid study please.

It is illogical to compare cocaine and xanax to steroids!! How could you even make such a comment?!!!? Cocaine is a NARCOTIC!!!

How? They are both recreational drugs. You could argue to the legalization of Xanax for this w anxiety, or cocaine, because yes, cocaine has some positive health benefits.

You say you are the Supplement Guru? What would happen if your precious supplements were to become illegal?

Ok, you have 2 posts, so wont you have some balls and post under your REAL board name... because youre a fucking idiot. Look around douche nozzle, supplements are being banned everyday.

I'd also suggest that you do some research, because it sounds to me like you are the ignorant one! I'll refer back to the cocaine comment!!!

When you have the balls to post under your real board name, come back, until then, shut the fuck up and hide behind a fake name, ignorant pussy.

[coffee-guy]

You are the man YJ - someone ban this fucker for having 2 posts and trying to get off on YJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BBAddict]

LOL! I was waiting for YJ to see this and reply--who does this noobie think he is?!

[YellowJacket]

I dont mind a good debate as you BB and Puma make valid, interesting points and I respect that, but apparently some members dont have the balls to post with their real usernames and resort to acting like a fucking kid instead of debating as adults.. I apologize for taking this thread off topic....

[coffee-guy]

Originally Posted by YellowJacket

I dont mind a good debate as you BB and Puma make valid, interesting points and I respect that, but apparently some members dont have the balls to post with their real usernames and resort to acting like a fucking kid instead of debating as adults.. I apologize for taking this thread off topic....

I've seen some great debates on here but this was unreal... I was sooooooo waiting to see what you had to say to all of this B.S. from the new guy.


"Ok, you have 2 posts, so wont you have some balls and post under your REAL board name... because youre a fucking idiot. Look around douche nozzle, supplements are being banned everyday."

[Puma]

And that would be the first thing I suggest. Just like you don't get a tit job done at the local bar, doctors should write for steroids. I do not favor a "free for all" but allow doctors (maybe plastic surgeons, its right up their alley) to start to write for steroids for physique enhancement.

I think we all know that steroids have side effects and can be very dangerous if used incorrectly. But so can just about every drug out there. M1T was a good example (although its now gone). This drug ripped your liver, but because it was over the counter lots of people took it, primarily because they COULD NOT GET SOMETHING ELSE! That's the point, people are not able to get the "known" substances as easily as these "supplements" that float around out there. Where do you think more studies have been done, M1T or testosterone. I can pretty much, without a doubt, assure you that its testosterone. But people were taking M1 like it was candy because they could get it. You think if they could get Test and dbol they would be messing with M1? Hell no; but because M1 was legal, people took it an basically experimented on themselves.

I do n