the difference between endogenous...

[go Yankees]

...and exogenous testosterone

I read somewhere, probably in Anabolics 2005, in the article about epitestosterone, that "epi," as I'll call it, is administered to test users to keep their test to epi, or T to E ratio close to 1:1. Also, a ratio higher than 6:1 is considered a "positive" test (no pun intended) for testosterone in athletes and so on. So, theoretically, you could take enough epi to bring your levels back in control and pass a doping test for test. Supposedly this is what Barry Bonds was doing, and POSSIBLY how the Carolina linemen got past the NFL's test

Now, what I think I remember reading was something about a way to figure out if the testosterone in the body was administered from an external source, or was naturally produced by the body. This would be a way to neutralize the masking effects of epi. Does anyone know more about this? Is this at all possible in a doping test?

As soon as I get back home, I'll post the excerpt from the article, as well as a couple more pictures of myself, and pics from NPC nationals

[Pumpdogg]

En= yours...................Ex= what you put in

[beefcake]

Very interesting. I'm sure there are many out there like balco that are researching stuff like this.

[go Yankees]

thanks...I'm pretty clear on en vs ex, but structurally (and chemically, I guess), is there a way to tell the difference between the two in the body, and can a doping test be developed to flag people who have a "normal" T to E ratio, but ran epi with their test cycles?

in less/other words: can you spot exogenous epitestosterone in the body, and differentiate it from endogenous epitestosterone, for the purposes of doping tests?

[beefcake]

Originally Posted by go Yankees

in less/other words: can you spot exogenous epitestosterone in the body, and differentiate it from endogenous epitestosterone, for the purposes of doping tests?

They must be able to since exogenous test doesn't come from humans.

[Jorlen]

What they can do is look for estered testosterone. Since that is always exogenous.
Once the ester is removed inside the body the resulting testosterone molecule is identical to the endogenous testosterone and impossible to separate be any test.
When testosterone base is used instead of estered testosterone looking for estered testosterone wont work.

The way to catch someone is to have blood serum levels of testosterone analyzed. Maybe you can analyse serum levels through urine I dont know. But the sample must be taken more or less immidietly after telling the person he is gonna be tested. Since steroid cleansers most likely exist and would be used to drop levels of testosterone quickly.
The levels of AAS required to be of real benefit to an athlete are much higher then normal biological levels. If you stay in the upper normal range you would possibly get a slight benefit. And the risk of getting caught would be second to none.

[Puma]

I would think that they would do a Free and Total test check and look for anything way out of whack.

Now, that is not to say the athlete's are clean at all; they are very likely running as close to the "magic" number of free test as possible. Also, its very difficult to test on this basis, because some people just have a very high natural test level; while others are much lower.

For example, on most standard blood tests, total test can range from around 200 to 800 and still be "normal". Free test has an even bigger range of normal numbers. I am sure that the athletes know this and are shooting to get as high as possible without going over. Also, test no ester has a very fast elminitation time, so if you know your going to be untested for a few days you can go really high and come back down again very quickly.

I would GUESS (this is totally a guess) that a "tested" person's stack now looks something like this:

Test no ester (TNE)
GH or IGF1
Insulin

As far as I know, everything there is very difficult, or impossible to test for on a definative basis. They probably get blood work all the time to make sure that they are falling into the "normal" range for their test levels. Also, they probabaly time their TNE injections such that if a test were to come up they will be at their lowest levels during the test period.

I want them to develop a steroid that cannot be tested for, and it madly effective (better then anything we have now). That way they can't harp on "pro sports" as a reason to keep everything else illegal anymore. They will mostly all be doing it and there will be no "commercial" reason to keep the juice from the rest of us.

Sorry, had to do it!

Puma

Originally Posted by Jorlen

What they can do is look for estered testosterone. Since that is always exogenous.
Once the ester is removed inside the body the resulting testosterone molecule is identical to the endogenous testosterone and impossible to separate be any test.
When testosterone base is used instead of estered testosterone looking for estered testosterone wont work.

The way to catch someone is to have blood serum levels of testosterone analyzed. Maybe you can analyse serum levels through urine I dont know. But the sample must be taken more or less immidietly after telling the person he is gonna be tested. Since steroid cleansers most likely exist and would be used to drop levels of testosterone quickly.
The levels of AAS required to be of real benefit to an athlete are much higher then normal biological levels. If you stay in the upper normal range you would possibly get a slight benefit. And the risk of getting caught would be second to none.

[go Yankees]

yeah, there's a lot of money in pro sports for steroids that make the difference...I THINK, according to some of the grand jury testimony released in the San Francisco Chronicle, that Bonds was taking the "cream" which was a blend of test (dunno about the ester) and epi-test, the "clear" which was THG, an oral designer steroid, Clomid, insulin, and "- G -"