Q about Primo and Tren

[Dickerson65]

Hey all, long time reader, but this is my firts post. I just had a few questions i was hoping a few "more expirenced" people could gimme a little help with. I am going to start my second ever cycle, hopefully, next week, and after reading, asking questions, and more reading i had come to the decision to try out some Primo/winny, but my source is trying to get me to go with Tren alone instead. For some reason he thinks it would be much more productive in what i want to do. My only concern is and potential side effects with Tren.(hence my earlier choice in Primo) I am pretty sensitive to est. as i found from my first cycle, but from what ive learned supposedly Tren should have no aromitization. What about Prog. sides like gyno? any water gain ? clomid/nolva? not looking to really bulk right now, just a good boost to my training...

I am 19yr old, 6'0'' 215 18% BF and im just looking for some nice lean gains, while maybe shredding up some fat.?.. Any advice would be great suggested cycle etc. Thanks it is much appreciated in advance,

[Skyefire]

first off I moved your post into the right forum

secondly I don't think that at 19 you need to be doing steriods anyways.

Third tren alone is not a good cycle. you need to have other stuff in there, tren isn't a good idea for a second cycle anyway.

fourth if your worried about sides then you need to sat away from things like winny, tren and the like.

[Dickerson65]

Well thanks for your input bro

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by Dickerson65

Hey all, long time reader,

long time reader bro you just joined in jan???? but anyways i thought that was funny. on to your question im with skyfire. way to young for steroids. if you learn about diet in the nutrition section you will make huge gains with zero side effects. good luck!

[metalmarty]

I'm with everyone else. Nineteen is way too young, especially for such a harsh compund as tren.

[go Yankees]

ditto, I know it sounds annoying and discouraging, but at 6'0, 215, and 18% bf, you certainly have a lot of "room" to develop very well before you reach a point where you will need help to develop further

[Skyefire]

if you can't be discuraged then at least go read this. http://www.chemicalfitness.com/forum...ead.php?t=3574

[Dickerson65]

Well thanks to everyone for your advice and concern. Unfortunately i dont have much of a choice on the subject as to whether or not to i should use. You see i play sports at a Division 2 school, and after our yearly "random" drug test on February 1 st... The entire team mysteriously gains about 35lbs... im sure its not hard to geuss why. But anyway long story short it is actually extremely hard to stay competitive without the use of gear these days.

And FYI i dont know my exact BF% twas merely a geuss(so gimme a break), but i do work my ass off day in and out and im not just looking for some miracle to make me the best player ever, I just need something that will help me enough to stay competitive, but at the same time not gain 45lbs from lipolysis and water. And in case you are wondering, yes there are kids that engage in college sports without the use of drugs, they are called kickers, and people who dont play, except for those gifted few with perfect genes for the sport, one of wich i am not.
But anyway, thanks for the thoughts and concerns, im sure i will figure it out.

[Mr incredible]

Originally Posted by Dickerson65

Well thanks to everyone for your advice and concern. Unfortunately i dont have much of a choice on the subject as to whether or not to i should use. You see i play sports at a Division 2 school, and after our yearly "random" drug test on February 1 st... The entire team mysteriously gains about 35lbs... im sure its not hard to geuss why. But anyway long story short it is actually extremely hard to stay competitive without the use of gear these days.

And FYI i dont know my exact BF% twas merely a geuss(so gimme a break), but i do work my ass off day in and out and im not just looking for some miracle to make me the best player ever, I just need something that will help me enough to stay competitive, but at the same time not gain 45lbs from lipolysis and water. And in case you are wondering, yes there are kids that engage in college sports without the use of drugs, they are called kickers, and people who dont play, except for those gifted few with perfect genes for the sport, one of wich i am not.
But anyway, thanks for the thoughts and concerns, im sure i will figure it out.

Dude I skipped this at first glance because you seemed a bit young but now I can see where your coming from.

IMO tren definately adds good size and strength when used in sufficient quantity, and you won't add water weight or bloat from it. its one of the best compounds out there in my experience, but its sure does knock ur natural hormone secretions and if your prone to bad tempers its gonna make you a shit load worse.

I would say that it will probably increase your athletice performance more so than winny and primo together. It would be best used along with the primo and even better anavar. That way you will only add functional weight i.e. the strength increase will outweight the weight increase.

tren can impede your erection ability, even at your age, to counter this you can take Pro Viron (masterlone)

The thing with tren is most agree that its harsh on the kidnesy so cycles should be kept to 6 weeks. To prevent you balls dissapearing while on you should use intermitent HCH shots.

thats a lot of hassle right there, but you need to be fully aware of the side effects befor using.

Another option my be to use testosterone which isn't toxic, there you will have to counter the bloat with proviron or aromatise, if using aromatise you need to make sure your not eating many foods high in LDL cholestoral as your HDL (good cholesterol will be suppressed)

If your gonna do it do it right, all of the above should help but its for you to decide whether its worth it!

[Dickerson65]

Yeah, i bet most of you guys on here would be sick if you knew what kids do these days. I was all natural until i started college, but i knew guys who started as early as 9th GRADE! Its insane really. That like 15-16 yrs old...and for what, highschool football??...

[fog_hat1981]

Originally Posted by Dickerson65

Yeah, i bet most of you guys on here would be sick if you knew what kids do these days. I was all natural until i started college, but i knew guys who started as early as 9th GRADE! Its insane really. That like 15-16 yrs old...and for what, highschool football??...

You must have gone to a school like mine...

[Lmg2701]

Listen and listen very very carefully. I don't care what the team is doing brother, at 19 you SHOULD NOT be running anabolics for any reason. Anabolics can be helpful to get past plateaus and the side effects and dangers can be minimized in HEALTHY ADULT MALES. I know you might feel pressured and think this is one of the only ways to get the results you want to achieve but it is not worth the effect it could have on your body at that age. If you are intelligent you will hold off for a few more years.

Now on another note, what does your diet look like? I'm guessing it is not stellar. If you fix your diet bro you could easily put on 20 more lbs. We have a pretty good nutrition section here with lots of people willing to help you achieve your goals by that route. Tell us what your current diet consists of and lets see if we can help you put on the weight that way....

[Dickerson65]

Thanks for the input and advice, i know the way i describe myself doesnt sound to phenomenal, but during the season i am usually at around 245-255.(and fairly stout i may say) I usually dont lose as much weight as i did, but at the end of the year i had to have a surgery on my jaw where it was re-broken and set back in place, i was wired shut for 6 weeks, so i pretty much lived on soup and shakes, not to mention the liquid loratab i was on that made me not really wanna do anything.

But as for my diet, now that i am just starting to eat normal again, im trying to get back into my Keto routine. During the season my diet is really as close to perfect as possible

Breakfast 3 eggs, 20gram shake
Lunch 1 20gram shake -chicken breast or some tuna salad
lunch 2 chicken salad or some peanut butter
post workout 20 gram shake
Dinner Tuna w/ melted cheese or mayo and some califlower and or broccili

I do weight training 5-6 days a week, and cardio 4x/week

This regiment will always work to get me to about 230-235 and fairly lean, but i cant ever seem to get over that hump im not even really worried about the BF (to a degree) just the strength. It may sound far-fetched to you that i actually follow this diet, but with all 3 years in highschool i HAD to follow it to the tee just to keep up with the other guys who would blow up each year in the begining of spring training.

Thanks for all the help and advice guys, im gonna stay on my diet and go as hard as i can, but i just dunno if i can stay off and still have a succesfull year. Its really a Sh***y situation to be in tho cause i hate the thought of screwin myself as much as the next guy, but what can i do...

Thanks again to all..

[Lmg2701]

There's your problem brother.....You're eating clean but you're not eating enough. For your size and the size you wish you achieve you're not eating nearly enough. Go to this site and calculate your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) or the calories you need to consume to stay at your carrent size. http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html


Once you've calculated your BMR you simply have to start eating MORE calories than that to gain weight. From what you've shown it seems that you aren't really eating a high amount of calories. When you say "20 grams shake" do you mean 20 grams of protein? And in your post workout shake are you taking in any carbs (dextrose, malto, etc...)? I guarantee you that if you fix your diet and start increasing your caloric intake you will put on the weight you desire.

[Skyefire]

Originally Posted by Dickerson65

Well thanks to everyone for your advice and concern. Unfortunately i dont have much of a choice on the subject as to whether or not to i should use. You see i play sports at a Division 2 school, and after our yearly "random" drug test on February 1 st... The entire team mysteriously gains about 35lbs... im sure its not hard to geuss why. But anyway long story short it is actually extremely hard to stay competitive without the use of gear these days.

And FYI i dont know my exact BF% twas merely a geuss(so gimme a break), but i do work my ass off day in and out and im not just looking for some miracle to make me the best player ever, I just need something that will help me enough to stay competitive, but at the same time not gain 45lbs from lipolysis and water. And in case you are wondering, yes there are kids that engage in college sports without the use of drugs, they are called kickers, and people who dont play, except for those gifted few with perfect genes for the sport, one of wich i am not.
But anyway, thanks for the thoughts and concerns, im sure i will figure it out.

all right I can understand if not approve. Listen read that link I gave you and post your diet and stuff here. BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU TAKE, and not just for health reasons but also detection times for the drugs. Deca would be ideal except it can be detected for 18 months, it can show up for as long as 2 years.

Detection times for AAS

Boldenone Undecyclenate 4-5 months
Clen 4-5 Days
Ephedrin 6-10 Days
Halo 2 months
Proviron 5 weeks
D-Bol 5 weeks
Methamphetamin 6-10 Days
Primo Depot 4-5 weeks
Deca 18 months
Nandrolon Phenylprop 12 months
Anavar 3 weeks
Anadrol 2 months
Winny oral 3 weeks
Winny inj 2 months
Test cyp 3 months
Test enat 3 months
Sustanon 3 months
Test Prop 2-3 weeks
Andriol 1 week
Tremolon Acet 4-5 weeks
Test supspenison No metabolites. t/e should
be back to normal in days.

Factors which influence the detection times


Metabolism
Fluid intake
Tolerance to the drug
Frequency of intake
Duration of intake
Body fat
Potency of drug
Dosage

here is what I would do (I still wouldn't do it at 19)
40mg dbol ed weeks 1 to 6
50mg proviron ed weeks 1 to 6 (or other AI)
600mg test cyp weeks 1 to 12
10mg nolvadex ed for weeks 1 to 13
PCT starting week 14 with 40mg nolvadex ed for two weeks then 20mg ed for another 2 weeks


if you want EQ would also be a good choice here but be careful as it has a longer detection time 6 months to be safe. If you can get a shorter ester of it that would be better.
Same as above but add 4 weeks
ether 1.8 grams eq week 1
or 1.2 grams eq weeks 1 and 2
600mg eq weekly for weeks up to 15

[Lmg2701]

Originally Posted by Skyefire

all right I can understand if not approve. Listen read that link I gave you and post your diet and stuff here. BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU TAKE, and not just for health reasons but also detection times for the drugs. Deca would be ideal except it can be detected for 18 months, it can show up for as long as 2 years.

Detection times for AAS

Boldenone Undecyclenate 4-5 months
Clen 4-5 Days
Ephedrin 6-10 Days
Halo 2 months
Proviron 5 weeks
D-Bol 5 weeks
Methamphetamin 6-10 Days
Primo Depot 4-5 weeks
Deca 18 months
Nandrolon Phenylprop 12 months
Anavar 3 weeks
Anadrol 2 months
Winny oral 3 weeks
Winny inj 2 months
Test cyp 3 months
Test enat 3 months
Sustanon 3 months
Test Prop 2-3 weeks
Andriol 1 week
Tremolon Acet 4-5 weeks
Test supspenison No metabolites. t/e should
be back to normal in days.

Factors which influence the detection times


Metabolism
Fluid intake
Tolerance to the drug
Frequency of intake
Duration of intake
Body fat
Potency of drug
Dosage

here is what I would do (I still wouldn't do it at 19)
40mg dbol ed weeks 1 to 6
50mg proviron ed weeks 1 to 6 (or other AI)
600mg test cyp weeks 1 to 12
10mg nolvadex ed for weeks 1 to 13
PCT starting week 14 with 40mg nolvadex ed for two weeks then 20mg ed for another 2 weeks


if you want EQ would also be a good choice here but be careful as it has a longer detection time 6 months to be safe. If you can get a shorter ester of it that would be better.
Same as above but add 4 weeks
ether 1.8 grams eq week 1
or 1.2 grams eq weeks 1 and 2
600mg eq weekly for weeks up to 15

Check out that diet......I know he can put on the weight he wants without the AS and by just fixing the diet.

[Dickerson65]

Wow, if that calculator is right, im like 2000-2500 calories to low. I geussin thats a huge part of it but i dunno if i can eat that much(of the stuff im eating) what kind (if any) carbs should i incorporate?

I have always stayed at about 20g a day wich is only a few hundred calories, is this too low, or will adding carbs just make me gain unwanted weight in the form of fat?

I know some people say u have to have them, even in a keto type diet, but wont they take me out of Ketosis? Do i even want to stay in ketosis to biuld muscle? I test my ketone levels in urine, and when im on this diet they are through the roof...

Thanks again fo all the helpful info

[Skyefire]

Originally Posted by Lmg2701

Check out that diet......I know he can put on the weight he wants without the AS and by just fixing the diet.

not arguing that at all, but he has pretty well stated that he was going to and that being the case I would rather he had the info he needed to do it right. 19 is still too young and he runs a risk of lossing bone growth here.

really am not sure about that cal though. but I have a low metabolism though.

[Dickerson65]

On the notation of bone growth i beleive that fully, b/c two of my good bros that started juicin in between 9th and 10th grade (16yrs old) one is 5'8'' and his dad is 6'2'' and the other is like 5'9''-5'10'' and his dad is like 6'0'',

but do u really think at 19, (20 in 2 months), i really need to be concerned with pre-maturely stopping my growth? My dad is 6'6" and my mom is 4'11" so im pretty sure im stuck right where im at.(6'0"-6"1")

What other possible side effects might a 19 yr old expirience that a 24 or 25 year old wouldnt?

[Skyefire]

just because you have reached your hight doesn't meant that your finished growing. with, jaw, ribs (why they break harder when your 25 rather then 19), inmovable joints and such. also bone thickness is an issue although not as much

as for other sides try anything to do with hormones. your system isn't fully matured so there is always an increased risk of permement damage to you compared to someone that is 25.

or an irreversable testcular atrophey is alway a possiblity.

[Lmg2701]

Post your diet in the nurtition section and explain what your goals are and what your stats are. You'll get a lot more responses as far as diet in that forum.

And yes, as I figured you are not eating nearly enough. Post your diet in there and I'll look at it over the weekend......

[fog_hat1981]

Originally Posted by Lmg2701

Post your diet in the nurtition section and explain what your goals are and what your stats are. You'll get a lot more responses as far as diet in that forum.

Trust everyone here bro - just think - you could make the same gains that all of your team members are making with steroids - only you will still be natural...

This will give you a much better base for the years to come when you actually do start cycling....