Proviron. Why is this not talked about more?

[THE BOUNCER]

Anyone know at what rate does testosterone convert to Progesterone? I know deca is like a 20% conversion rate. I know test is much lower then that.

I guess the question I am getting at is this, what are the chances that the sore, sensitive nips I am experiencing is from progestenic activity instead of estrogen based gyno?

I would think that a cycle of test, proviron, and Nolv would not cause a great deal of progesterone activity.

[THE BOUNCER]

By the way, if for some reason the nips stay sore and get worse, would adding Letro to the mix effictivly block whatever may be causing the gyno weather it be estrogen or progesterone? As I understand it, progesterone induced gyno needs estrogen to form. By lowering all estrogen with Letro that would effectively stop whatever is causing the gyno correct?

[fog_hat1981]

Damn B - you get as worked up about this shit as I do

I highly doubt you're going to get progesterone induced gyno off of 750mg of test a week brother (probably won't even get estrogen induced sides either for that matter) and besides that the Proviron should combat that as it is...

The Letro really helped me out this last time around - no worries if you're running the Proviron and Letro IMO (I ran/am running 0.625mg eod)....

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by fog_hat1981

Damn B - you get as worked up about this shit as I do

I highly doubt you're going to get progesterone induced gyno off of 750mg of test a week brother (probably won't even get estrogen induced sides either for that matter) and besides that the Proviron should combat that as it is...

The Letro really helped me out this last time around - no worries if you're running the Proviron and Letro IMO (I ran/am running 0.625mg eod)....

as i said yesterday bro, i have already started this cycle and have already started getting sore sensitive nips. started the nolv 5 days ago and they are still sore. this is why i am worried. i am not worried if it will happen, i am worried because it has already happened.

read post #52 in this thread.

[fog_hat1981]

What I'm saying is that the Proviron isn't at a high enough dose to do you more harm than it is good - the Nolva run with the Proviron should be fine IMO - it's not like you're running Tren/Deca...

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

Anyone know at what rate does testosterone convert to Progesterone? I know deca is like a 20% conversion rate. I know test is much lower then that.

I guess the question I am getting at is this, what are the chances that the sore, sensitive nips I am experiencing is from progestenic activity instead of estrogen based gyno?

I would think that a cycle of test, proviron, and Nolv would not cause a great deal of progesterone activity.

i dont know the conversion rate but im sure its not 20% like you said much lower.
you have takin test before and the nolva worked just fine correct? this is no different execpt it might be in your head do to this thread. proviron is a anti-e but like i said before it is a weak one. you could just be sensitive to estrogen. the nolva will kick in and yo will be fine.
your sides are not from progestrone!

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

By the way, if for some reason the nips stay sore and get worse, would adding Letro to the mix effictivly block whatever may be causing the gyno weather it be estrogen or progesterone? As I understand it, progesterone induced gyno needs estrogen to form. By lowering all estrogen with Letro that would effectively stop whatever is causing the gyno correct?

i tried that approch and it didnt do anything for me, i also tried the B-6 it didnt work either. the only thing that works for me while takin TREN is dostinex(sp?) your sides are not from progestrone.

[Deacon]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

By the way, if for some reason the nips stay sore and get worse, would adding Letro to the mix effictivly block whatever may be causing the gyno weather it be estrogen or progesterone? As I understand it, progesterone induced gyno needs estrogen to form. By lowering all estrogen with Letro that would effectively stop whatever is causing the gyno correct?

this is a long thread but I will try to answer what I can - letro should help you bouncer keep estro down - but once you do have gyno begin you need to hit 80 mgs of nolva ed until it begins to go away and then 20 mgs the rest of the cycle to keep it away

despite what some popular myths may say provi will not do much once gyno starts and even the belief that is helps stop gyno from forming to begin with has never been proven satisfactorily.

But you should not be getting progesterone related sides from test only with a little provi thrown in - only estro sides - letro or a-dex should help stop the from occuring

as far as running nolva and proviron together if the gyno has started and is full blown gyno you NEED the heavy doses of nolva in there right away - no matter what else you are running

if you were already running letro and gyno appeared (which would be hard to believe but I am told happens) you would still need the 80 mgs of nolva until the gyno started going away and then drop it to 20

if you simply add in 20-40 mgs of nolva you will not see much effect on your gyno

[Deacon]

Originally Posted by ROCKETW19

yep already knew all that i use proviron in all my cycles. my guess is people dont use it cuzz of the cost. real human grade is pricy.

masteron is even better than provi for the same reasons plus it works better and is injectable

[Deacon]

Originally Posted by The Iron Bull

ummmm....yeah.

So you have never heard of Masteron??
Obviously you havent or you wouldnt be asking.....

And it isnt an opinion its a fact.

You know whats funny......
I can make a state but I have to back it up. But when stone does the same thing......nothing??

Anyways........

Masteron chemical structure is 2 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one.



Proviron chemical structure is 1 alpha-methyl-17 beta-hydroxy-5 alpha-androstan-3-one.

Proviron is the oral form of Masteron, thus Masteron is an injectable.

Thus it is better as we all know......injectables are better then orals.

there is no argument that masteron is superior to provi for blocking DHT and also for its protien binding abilities - why provi was so popular thoguh was that before UG labs it was hard to get good masteron cheaply

[Deacon]

Originally Posted by ROCKETW19

i dont mean to keep buttin in on this but that was the first thing i was told while takin tren, is dont use nolva if you get gyno sides. i have also read this many times on many different boards. i never took the time to ask why cuzz i never use nolva. except in my PCT

it is really simple - tren causes prolactin/progesteron related sides - test deca and EQ do not they cause estro sides as a rule - nolva is not very effective on progesterone/ prolactin sides - for that you need letro, dostinex/cabaser or bromo

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by Deacon

it is really simple - tren causes prolactin/progesteron related sides - test deca and EQ do not they cause estro sides as a rule - nolva is not very effective on progesterone/ prolactin sides - for that you need letro, dostinex/cabaser or bromo

i know what the cause is fruit loop! i said i never bothered to ask why you shouldnt use nolva with tren cuzz i never use nolva execpt in my PCT.

[THE BOUNCER]

thanks rocket and deacon. bumped up the nolv and will see what happens. will keep Letro on hand in case i need that also. nolv has always worked fine for any nip problems i had while running test. i was just kind of getting worried because of this thread i was thinking that maybe the nolv and proviron are interacting with each other and making things worse.

in case i do need to run letro, would i still be able to run it with proviron so that i can still get its SHBG binding effects and more free test?

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Deacon

there is no argument that masteron is superior to provi for blocking DHT

Did you mean estrogen? Masteron and proviron pretty much are DHT correct?

[DADAWG]

heres my take on your question .
proviron frees up bound test which in effect is like takeing a higher dose of test . great for anyone whos not gyno sensitive . its just my opinion but i feel that nolva supposedly not working with proviron or masteron is because of the higher free test levels . more nolva that usual may be needed for the same amount of test injected or you may need to add aromasin if nolva isnt enough .
just my opinion .

[Deacon]

Originally Posted by ROCKETW19

i know what the cause is fruit loop! i said i never bothered to ask why you shouldnt use nolva with tren cuzz i never use nolva execpt in my PCT.

calling me names - what a joke

[basskiller]

I've had a few people at doses as high as 100mgs ed for almost two weeks (nolva) before the gyno subsided.
But usually 60 to 80mgs ed is a good starting point.
Letro will kill your your sex drive..


sorry.. I see this was answered

[Chadd77]

Originally Posted by Deacon

it is really simple - tren causes prolactin/progesteron related sides - test deca and EQ do not they cause estro sides as a rule - nolva is not very effective on progesterone/ prolactin sides - for that you need letro, dostinex/cabaser or bromo

So letro can be used to keep the progesterone sides (using tren) away? I always thought you had to use dostinex.

[Lmg2701]

Originally Posted by basskiller

I've had a few people at doses as high as 100mgs ed for almost two weeks (nolva) before the gyno subsided.
But usually 60 to 80mgs ed is a good starting point.

I always find it's odd how over the years our doses for things always get higher and higher and higher. I can understand why a higher dose may be needed in this case because of the proviron and thus more test roaming around, but in the past once you noticed gyno induced sides you would jump to 40 mg and then after it subsides go back to 20 mg. This has always worked for me as well.


Just commenting here guys so don't taken anything I've said out of context, just haven't seen 60mg-100mg of nolva/ed suggested before.

[Deacon]

Originally Posted by Lmg2701

I always find it's odd how over the years our doses for things always get higher and higher and higher. I can understand why a higher dose may be needed in this case because of the proviron and thus more test roaming around, but in the past once you noticed gyno induced sides you would jump to 40 mg and then after it subsides go back to 20 mg. This has always worked for me as well.


Just commenting here guys so don't taken anything I've said out of context, just haven't seen 60mg-100mg of nolva/ed suggested before.

I understand what you are saying and you are very correct - but it has always been felt that you really need to jump on a gyno flair up quickly with a high dose - thats why many opt for 60-80 mgs of nolva right off the bat - I guess in the case of gyno overkill is desirable over not enough treatment

[Deacon]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chadd77

So letro can be used to keep the progesterone sides (using tren) away? I always thought you had to use dostinex.