Proviron + Nolvadex = Gyno.. For me at least..

[THE BOUNCER]

After much discussion in this thread and some experimentation on my part I have come to the conclusion that proviron in combination with nolvadex makes gyno worse in my case!

Proviron. Why is this not talked about more?

Here is a little history that made me come to this conclusion.

I have run Test many times in the past. Always been a little sensitive to gyno but nothing that 20-30mgs of nolvadex a day didn't take care of.

For the first time with this cycle I had decided to run proviron along with the test after reading and hearing many good things about it.

Within 2 weeks my nips were starting to get a little sensitive like they always do with test. I added in nolv at 20mgs a day like always thinking the gyno would go away in about a week like it always does at that dose. Not this time. 2 weeks later my nips were still sensitive and I had a small lump forming. That is when I made my post speculating about a interaction between proviron and nolvadex.

About 5 days after I stopped the proviron, the nip sensitivity was gone. I was still not convinced that the proviron and nolv combination was causing the problems though. I started the proviron back up at the same dosage as before. Sure enough, a week later, here I sit with sensitive nips and a small lump.

The only conclusion I can come to is that proviron in combination with nolvadex causes gyno.

This is my speculation of why this may happen.

There are studies that say that certain AI's (Femera) and others when taken in combination with SERM's (Nolvadex) actually reduce each others effectiveness by as much as 40%. My thought is that the proviron is making the nolvadex much less effective and Vice Versa.

I have once again dropped the proviron and am just running test along with 40mgs of nolv a day. I will update in a few days.

Thoughts?

[Deacon]

I think this one has been beat to death already bro - but all I can say is I don't see how that could possibly happen especially since both have anti -e effects

using them together has never caused this to happen to anyone else I have ever heard of
there must be something about your bodies chemical make up but I sure as hell dont understand what it would be

[beefcake]

Somewhat like the letro and nolva canceling each other thing? Only thing I can think of is that your body sensed no need to convert the overage of test to dht since the prov was around, so it decided to convert it to estrogen. I think the prov and 20mg of nolva just weren't enough to handle that much.

[Deacon]

ya it just dont make much sense that those two compounds would react that way

[THE BOUNCER]

It may be the same mechanism that makes Letro and nolv not work together. I don't know. Does anyone have any info on what it is exactly that makes letro and nolv and bad combo?

One thought is that Nolv is actually a weak estrogen. By taking something that basically kills estrogen, maybe your killing the nolv in a sense.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by beefcake

I think the prov and 20mg of nolva just weren't enough to handle that much.

20mg has always been enough in the past. Even so, I have been running 40mgs of nolv for the last 2 weeks.

[ROCKETW19]

wow that sucks! at least you know what caused the gyno problem, to me thats good enough. it dosnt have to make sence. i have never used nolva durring a cycle but i always use proviron. maybe i should try them together to see if this happens to me also. im about 4 weeks into 750mgs test E with 50mgs proviron just starting to feel the test. im gonna wait 1 more week and try nolva to see what happens.

[IanMazia]

I know this is an old thread Bouncer, but I just wanted to add my experiences since I've encountered the exact same situation. Last April, I ran a simple cycle of Test Prop at 100mg ED. For the first time ever, I decided to add 50mg of Proviron to my cycle with my normal ancillary of nolva at 20mgs. My decision to add 50mg of Proviron was based on its enhancement of the the effects of the test in my system. Anyway, in week two of this cycle, my nipples started to get crazy sensitive! This had never happened to be before, and I have ran this exact same cycle on several occasions in the past without coadministering nolva like I do now. Low and behold, I dropped the Proviron to 25mgs and the nipple sensitivity went away within a week. I've always wondered what caused that to happen?!?!

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by IanMazia

I know this is an old thread Bouncer, but I just wanted to add my experiences since I've encountered the exact same situation. Last April, I ran a simple cycle of Test Prop at 100mg ED. For the first time ever, I decided to add 50mg of Proviron to my cycle with my normal ancillary of nolva at 20mgs. My decision to add 50mg of Proviron was based on its enhancement of the the effects of the test in my system. Anyway, in week two of this cycle, my nipples started to get crazy sensitive! This had never happened to be before, and I have ran this exact same cycle on several occasions in the past without coadministering nolva like I do now. Low and behold, I dropped the Proviron to 25mgs and the nipple sensitivity went away within a week. I've always wondered what caused that to happen?!?!

Intresting! so you have run test and proviron same doses and you were fine? then you added in nolva and got gyno also?

[IanMazia]

Originally Posted by ROCKETW19

Intresting! so you have run test and proviron same doses and you were fine? then you added in nolva and got gyno also?

In a sense. For me, when I first started juicin, I would never run an anti-estrogen with my cycles. For the past two years, I have been adding nolva to the mix at 20mgs for every cycle I have done, and I never had an incidence of gyno. All of a sudden when I added 50mgs of Proviron to the mix, I get gyno like symptoms.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by IanMazia

I know this is an old thread Bouncer, but I just wanted to add my experiences since I've encountered the exact same situation. Last April, I ran a simple cycle of Test Prop at 100mg ED. For the first time ever, I decided to add 50mg of Proviron to my cycle with my normal ancillary of nolva at 20mgs. My decision to add 50mg of Proviron was based on its enhancement of the the effects of the test in my system. Anyway, in week two of this cycle, my nipples started to get crazy sensitive! This had never happened to be before, and I have ran this exact same cycle on several occasions in the past without coadministering nolva like I do now. Low and behold, I dropped the Proviron to 25mgs and the nipple sensitivity went away within a week. I've always wondered what caused that to happen?!?!

I knew I wasn't crazy. I wish we could get to the bottom of this. I wonder if somehow the proviron and nolvadex are canceling each other out.

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by IanMazia

In a sense. For me, when I first started juicin, I would never run an anti-estrogen with my cycles. For the past two years, I have been adding nolva to the mix at 20mgs for every cycle I have done, and I never had an incidence of gyno. All of a sudden when I added 50mgs of Proviron to the mix, I get gyno like symptoms.

Humm can you try test at your regular dose and proviron at 50mgs with no nolva and see what happens? this is intresting.

[IanMazia]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

I knew I wasn't crazy. I wish we could get to the bottom of this. I wonder if somehow the proviron and nolvadex are canceling each other out.

I have a theory that might explain this crazy conundrum. When we inject test into our system at a substantial amount, our bodies natural reaction is to increase SHBG to balance out the ratio of hormones in our body. Proviron negates this increase by binding to the SHBG and thereby allowing a large amount of testosterone to remain in an unbounded state and thereby making it more susceptible to aromatize into estrogen. My theory is that when this happens, Novla at a low dose of 10mgs-20mgs is not going to be adequate or strong enough to prevent this increased aromatization. Does that kinda make sense?

Originally Posted by ROCKETW19

Humm can you try test at your regular dose and proviron at 50mgs with no nolva and see what happens? this is intresting.

Based on my previous experiences, that is not an experiment that I'm willing to endeavor on just yet!

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by IanMazia

I have a theory that might explain this crazy conundrum. When we inject test into our system at a substantial amount, our bodies natural reaction is to increase SHBG to balance out the ratio of hormones in our body. Proviron negates this increase by binding to the SHBG and thereby allowing a large amount of testosterone to remain in an unbounded state and thereby making it more susceptible to aromatize into estrogen. My theory is that when this happens, Novla at a low dose of 10mgs-20mgs is not going to be adequate or strong enough to prevent this increased aromatization. Does that kinda make sense?

seems to me that the nolva is actually playing a part in the gyno along with the proviron. try dropping the nolva and see what happens.

[IanMazia]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

seems to me that the nolva is actually playing a part in the gyno along with the proviron. try dropping the nolva and see what happens.

I have an aching suspicion that i'll get hit with gyno like symptoms again if i do that.

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by IanMazia

I have an aching suspicion that i'll get hit with gyno like symptoms again if i do that.

But its for the better of the board! lol, I hear ya gyno sucks!

[crossconnect]

Originally Posted by IanMazia

I have a theory that might explain this crazy conundrum. When we inject test into our system at a substantial amount, our bodies natural reaction is to increase SHBG to balance out the ratio of hormones in our body. Proviron negates this increase by binding to the SHBG and thereby allowing a large amount of testosterone to remain in an unbounded state and thereby making it more susceptible to aromatize into estrogen. My theory is that when this happens, Novla at a low dose of 10mgs-20mgs is not going to be adequate or strong enough to prevent this increased aromatization. Does that kinda make sense?



Based on my previous experiences, that is not an experiment that I'm willing to endeavor on just yet!

This is all very interesting.I dont run nolva during my cycle but as a pct after.As of late i have started running proviron because it frees up plasma test levels in the blood and acts as a mild anti-e also.Maybe it is freeing up the nolva in a similiar way or turning it into a more powerful form of estrogen in the same way it frees up test in the blood.

[ms80]

how do i use letro ive just got it

[ms80]

ive heard 3 defrent ways to take letro .5ml and 2.5ml and 5.0ml wahts the right or doze mater

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by ms80

ive heard 3 defrent ways to take letro .5ml and 2.5ml and 5.0ml wahts the right or doze mater

first this thread isnt about letro
second are you sure your talking about ML and not MGs ????
I would take it at .5MGs EOD but that is me you might need it ED ????

[Alin]

That is very strange. I often used the Proviron/Nolva mix before the AI's came along with superior success. Just goes to show,, what works for one,, doesnt always work for another.

[MADO01A]

did u use only test, or stacked with tren/deca/oxy or any progestin aas ?