Winnie vs Var real world exp.

[DOUBLE J]

Can someone explain the different actions of Var as opposed to winnie. I`m interested in real world experiance. From reading different profiles they seem similar.

I know var is a bit spendy but is it worth it

In otherwords what is each best suited for?

Example: Strength and lean muscle growth of each. Is one more toxic to the liver than the other? Sides of each?
What are they best suited for.

I found Var at a "reasonable" price and would like to know the pro`s and cons of each? I`m older than most and the joint pain I hear about Winnie is kind of a turn-off.

Both seem similar in profiles I`ve read except Var seems to have an edge in muscle developement.

Someone please in laymans term indicate the differences for me.

Are they run similar lenghts? what about comparable doses?
I see many run Winnie at 50ED what about Var at optimum(sp) dosage?

Help me out Bro`s. Skoooool me. Thanks DOUBLE J

[nostawk]

Either i having "deja vous" or you also posted this on AR










or maybe im just going crazy

[DOUBLE J]

Its deja vu all over again

[DOUBLE J]

P.S. does this make me a HO?

[Tinfish]

These are my thoughts.

I love winny. I do not really have a big problem with the joint pain but i make sure and have 2500-3000 mgs of glucosamine+chrondoitn ed while on winny.

i have better pumps on winny than var.
i gain more lean mass on winny than i did var.
i have more endurance on winny than var.
Var seems to cut me up a bit more than winny.
var is more gentile on my hairline than winny.
winny affects my peepee more than var (in negative way)
i seem to have better strength on var than winny

an 8 week cycle of winny (50mgs zambons EOD) costs me about $250
an 8 week cycle of var (30mgs ED) costs me close to $400

those are my experiences. others may have different results.

[snatcharelli]

PeePee????


I have never done Winny.

I have done Oxandrin.

Used for 3 weeks.

Gained about 4 pounds

Gave me a leaner/harder look

Shut me down hard

After 2nd weeks, libido shot, could not keep a hard on.

Liver started in with some pings.

[snatcharelli]

Left this off, sorry

I weigh 190lb 5'9"

20 mg BTG a day

10 mg A.M.

10 mg P.M.

[Skywalker]

you got liver pings off 20mg/day? wow, were you taking any liver protectants?

[LARGELI]

thought id bump this to the top, good info Tinfish, anyone else have any comparisons??

[canadagold]

well, I am sure but there must have been some other reason for 20mg of anavar giving iamcnd liver "pings" . . .
I have done a heap more 17aa's than that at once and not had any liver probs. . .did you have any pre-existing problems with your liver iamcnd?

winstrol in my book is a much more potent drug for strength gains. I have done both and in my experience it is just not financially feasable for most guys to run anavar at a dose that is high enough to get good gains. . .whereas winstrol will give great gains at just EOD shots. . .

[LARGELI]

so would it be accurate to say that if the sides dont bother you then winny would be the choice? and if the price is no concern then anavar would be the one?

[spidey]

I am interested in this as well.

bump.

[spidey]

One thing: I have read reports that claim var stimulates collegen synthesis. Moreover, the new collegen tends to be more crosslinked and stronger than normal. Other AS that promote stronger tendons include boldenone, nandrolone, and methenolone (primo). Test actually cuts the production of collegen in half at supraphysiological doses. The article claimed that "this is where you get men with the musculature of a gorrilla and the tendons of a 90 yr old man".

According to the article, winny promotes larger yet weaker/less elastic tendons that are more prone to rupture (less crosslinking).

I already have some pre-existing tendon issues and have been too scared to ever try winny because of that.

Any thoughts from experienced bros on the tendon issue?

[canadagold]

where did you read the study on that, I would be interested to see it. . .Deca etc make the joints feel better because they load the area with more water and so it is just transient relief in those cases. I personally have not had any joint problems with winstrol when I have taken it so I can't comment on that myself.

[canadagold]

Originally posted by LARGELI
so would it be accurate to say that if the sides dont bother you then winny would be the choice? and if the price is no concern then anavar would be the one?

I think that it is a personal thing with each individual to tell you the truth. . .some guys will rave about winny and others hate it. . .not that many have taken anavar so it is hard to get a lot of feedback on that as compaired to stuff like deca, eq, wintrol and the more common high anabolics.
My solution: do winstrol for 4 weeks and then switch to anavar and see which you feel better on!

[Skywalker]

Originally posted by canadagold
well, I am sure but there must have been some other reason for 20mg of anavar giving iamcnd liver "pings" . . .
I have done a heap more 17aa's than that at once and not had any liver probs. . .did you have any pre-existing problems with your liver iamcnd?

winstrol in my book is a much more potent drug for strength gains. I have done both and in my experience it is just not financially feasable for most guys to run anavar at a dose that is high enough to get good gains. . .whereas winstrol will give great gains at just EOD shots. . .

bro it wasn't me with the liver pings, it was snatcharelli...

[spidey]

Originally posted by canadagold
where did you read the study on that, I would be interested to see it. . .Deca etc make the joints feel better because they load the area with more water and so it is just transient relief in those cases. I personally have not had any joint problems with winstrol when I have taken it so I can't comment on that myself.

It has been a while now. I think I read it in a post on EF (which I no longer post on); either there or at FG. If you are a plat member at EF, you can do a search for "boldenone and collegen" or "HGH and collegen". That should turn up the post and it has references.

[bonebreaker]

Anavar, (Oxandrin), for me at 20mgs/day for eight weeks along with nothing else but 400mgs/Enanthate/week, made me hard as a rock and vascular. But I'll tell you this, it works hard on your cholesterol levels, to the bad side. BB

[Skywalker]

found this over at CJM. it may be the article you are talking about... either way it talks about collagen synthesis and anavar

--------------------------------------------------
Authour is unknown, from A.S.N. board

While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

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[herodatus]

iamcdm Thats a interesting article. Anyone know the cure to the not getting wood part of those cycles? Without Viagra or Cialis.
I kind of like to have the urge to ''hump'' I think you know what I mean.

[snatcharelli]

I am going to get my liver checked.

In November I did a short cycle of Winstrol transdermal gel from the compound pharmacy.

After 9 days my liver had some serious pings. I was taking about 45mg day.

I was taking Milk thistle, ALA, Nac and the best Melatonin at night.
Nobody ever mentions Melatonin as a liver protectant, but it has been proven to be extremely potent.(I will probably do a future post on this)

Whereas Oxandrin gave me gains immediately, the Winstrol did nothing. Usually I can tell within the first week with prior(Deca gel, anadrol, ox)

I think I have some poor genetic predisposition.

Why do I think this? Well it is now Feb and my liver still letting me know it's pissed at me.

[STALKER]

my experience with those to druge doing them alone each time. winny get you hard and build up speed(running kicking). as for anavar will get you ten times stronger with litttle weight gain and make u hard as a rock.. general stalker