cycle question

[IAMHUGE]

I have been on a year long cycle running TEST with differnt stuff like EQ, ANADROL, TREN, etc. I am on QV PROP and BOLD (EQ) eod and DENKALL ANADROL 75mg ed right now. I am about to start some QV DECCA 300 @ 600 per week and reforvit D-BOL 25-50mg ed. Do I have to run test with it, or will I be ok with out it? I have not taken a break off test in a year. I was thinking of putting some CLOMID in and comming off the TEST for a while and just runing the DECCA, D-BOL combo.

PS. This was my first cycle. I started December 1st of last year. I have made great gains, but my hair has thined a lot and my skin has payed the price too.......I guess it goes w/ the teratory.

Any thoughts would be apreciated. I have learned a lot from this board, glad to be here


THANX

[mcbvr6]

clomid won't do you any good while you are still taking d-bol and deca.

[Doom]

First thing I must ask, why so long first time? What kind of gains have you seen thus far? What doses of each have you used, and for what duration, especially the drol, if you are looking to switch to dbol...anything over 8-10 weeks on 17-AA's, is overkill, and the liver becomes more efficient in breaking it down, making its effects less subtle on the body.

I would get your hands on some HCG, immediatly and start using it at 500-1000iu ed, for no less than 10 days, youve been surpressed naturally way too long. Deca will shut most down, so 9 out of 10 will tell ya test is necessary

And my own opinion, just come off for a while

[IAMHUGE]

I started out w/ sustanon for 16 weeks at 500 a week. I have jumped around a lot, but I have been running differnt TEST's @ between 400 and 1200 a week. I have used cyp, ent, prop, sust. switching them about every 10-12 weeks. I have stacked with: tren, eq, primo etc. I keep my dose pretty low for the most part. I am on prop and eq right now eod. so thats 400 test and 800 eq. I have gone through 3 bottles of each so far and was gonna switch to the decca and d-bol. this is the seccond time I have been on anadrol. right now I am on 75mg ed, but i took .5 tabs for a while. maybe like 8 weeks on the drol.

I have been thinking off comming off very seriously, but thought I would run this last cycle first.

I dont have all the answers I just want to get big.

My trainer partner who is a top NPC competitor reccomended 1 year for my first cycle.

I feel ok, I just wanna grow.

[mcbvr6]

"I dont have all the answers I just want to get big."

Although it wouldn't make a bad signature, it is a little disturbing in your case. You are asking questions that someone who has been on for a year should know the answers to. When you finally get ready to come off, you are going to need to hit the HCG pretty hard. I would actually start addding it in every few weeks now to start reversing the atrophy.

As for your other questions, you might be fine with a deca dbol only stack, but you might be like one of the many people who lose their libido. You have been on test for a long time, and you are going to drop down to nothing. It's your call, but I would stay on test (even at low doses) until you are ready to come off all the way.

[IAMHUGE]

When u say Decca will shut most down, What does that mean?

my gains have been good. I went from 160 to 235, and i have increased my 10 rep weight 100%. Meaning I could get 135 for ten on the flat, now I can get 275 for ten. Or for shoulders I could only get the 40's for ten, now I can get the 120's for ten..huge increase.

I just don't want to shrink up and get weak when I come off. I am afraid.

[IAMHUGE]

I dont want to run the decca dbol if u all say it is not gonna work cause I have been on drol. Will it work. I have 500 25mg tabs, so I have enough to up the dose if that would help.

[mcbvr6]

It means they have trouble recovering and lose a higher percentage of their gains because their body isn't producing enough test naturally to keep them.

You are going to lose some of it, how much depends on how well you prepare for coming off. You could stay on forever and never lose anything, but I wouldn't advise it. Just come off, do it right, see where you are, let your body recover, and then go back on.

[Doom]

I'll get into this a bit deeper later, but if your friend is an NPC competitor and thats what he advised you, hes an idiot...sorry but forst go around doesnt need to be a yr, and with so many different friggin things.

Your body needs to get used to the addition of test forst and foremost before you start adding everything under the sun here and there

And shutting down is the surpression of the bodys naturla production of testosterone, again if your friend didnt tell you any of this, he aint much of a friend

not bashing outright, but he should have guided you on every aspect if you took his word about starting and what to use

[IAMHUGE]

I know about natural test being shut down, Ii am pretty sure I am not producing any right now. But some one said something about being shut down from decca, that confused me.

I do trust my buddy. He is frigging huge and cut all year. I wont talk names ever, but he placed in the top 10 at the usa's and nat's in his class this year. His pro card is around the corner.

however, the reason I came to this board is for a good seccond opinion. because sometimes I do question him and his thoughts.

Just a little confused right now, and wanna make sure to do the right thing.

thank you for your help. I am willing to listen.

[mcbvr6]

It isn't just testosterone that shuts down your natural production. All of the derivatives of test will cause the same thing. Again, this is sort of "newbie" information that you should have already had before starting. I'm not trying to lecture you. It's just that you have put your body through a lot, without (it seems) really knowing what you are doing.

[the double M]

I am not going to even waste my time on this post. The lesson here to all newbies is that you have to do alot of research before getting yourself envolved. 'nuff said......

[Doom]

You havent been producing natural test for the yr that you have been on. Once you introduce a foreign matter into the body, the body will feed off of that, stopping all natural function, test, deca, fina, drol, eq...anything you have used has been a factor, any of those things on its own would have shut your natural test production down.

Youve put ur body through a lot, without using safety measures, or taking a break...maybe you should strongly consider coming off for a while, and you should definatly consider having a blood panel done to make sure things are semi ok.

You stop using, ur gonna loose gains, its that simple...how much of the gains you loose depends on how well you maintain urself without gear use, and rely on diet and training.

If you do plan on stoping, or even if you dont HCG is a must! 1000iu eod for 20 days, then begin using clomid, 100mgs ed for 21 days, and hope that ur natty levels rebound...you took a risk not knowing the pros and cons, now that we are helping, I would really advise you to listen, and not worry about how big you are, worry about the inside

[IAMHUGE]

Doom,

Thank you for all your help. Do you think I shouls come off now, or could I go, say ten more weeks with Deca and D-bol + a little, then come off w/ good pct?

[Doom]

Come off now, the longer you stay on, the more your hurting yourself. Be smart bro, dont let vanity destroy ur body from the inside out.

You will need a total of 10,000iu of HCG, it should be shot sub-q
after 20 days of using that on an every othe day basis, begin using clomid, I would also use some proviron to get ur sperm count up.

See and endocrinologist like GT said and be 100% HONEST, if you arent, there is no point in going, and there is nothing he can say, doc/patient confindentiality...have a complete blood panel done, liver values, cholesterol, test levels, anything and everything that they test for, have it done.

And bro, ask ur friend if he knows what PCT is, if he doesnt, brain him with a bat for being a moron, and having you follow an idiotic lead

[space mountain]

doom thanks for helping this bro and i wonder if bouncer read this thread....especially the npc bodybuilder part?

[IAMHUGE]

Doom, I have 25 clomid, 25 nolavdex, and 50 provirion. Again I have been on prop and eq 1cc of each eod for 8 weeks + denkall anadrol 75. I took a half a tab for ten days, and have been on 75mg ed ever since.

Should I stop the test/eq right now? Or keep running a little test while beginning pct, u tell me.

I don't know how fast I can get HCG, can I live w/o it. or should I seek it out ASAP?

I am a neewbie, but I did not realize I was fuc@#$g up. I know lots of people who run test year round with little or no breaks.

Again thank you to all for your help. I will keep you updated.

[Doom]

Everyone makes mistakes bro, Im not trying to scare you, nor flame you, but trying to bring attention to the seriousness of misuse..in this case you took the advice of someone whom you felt knew what they were talking about, it happens...coming here was the smartest thing you could have done

End everything NOW, no more light doses, no more nothing. Youve been on for this long without massive sides or problems, even if it is a week inbetween the time youve stopped, and the time you begin to run the HCG, you'll be ok, but its necessary, in this case.

Run the HCG first, now its pure estrogen, you havent had any problems with gyno as of yet, but sometimes this can kick it right in, so the novla might need to be ran along with HCG. As I said above, 1000iu every other day for 20 days, then 100mgs of clomid for the next 21 days, you can run the proviron along with the clomid, 50mgs ed, till you run out...

In the meantime, I would still like for you to see a doctor and have the blood work done, I cant stress that enough, especially if you are young, you dont want problems now, or ever

Good luck, and keep asking questions if you still arent sure. A stupid question is one that isnt asked

[IAMHUGE]

Thanks Doom.

I am coming off right now.

I have been having blood work done once a month for the whole year. My liver values are raised across the board, but are below the danger zone. My tri g's are ok as well.

I will get some more clomid and 10,000 iu's of HCG asap.

How long should I take off. 10 weeks 16weeks, you tell me.

I will post my next cycle on this board before I run it.

I am 29 years old 6'1, and 235lbs 10% bf

Again thanks for your help

[sana]

Originally posted by IAMHUGE
Thanks Doom.

I am coming off right now.

I have been having blood work done once a month for the whole year. My liver values are raised across the board, but are below the danger zone. My tri g's are ok as well.

I will get some more clomid and 10,000 iu's of HCG asap.

How long should I take off. 10 weeks 16weeks, you tell me.

I will post my next cycle on this board before I run it.

I am 29 years old 6'1, and 235lbs 10% bf

Again thanks for your help

you should take off until you do not feel like you have to ask newbie questions.

you went into this endeavor with no knowledge of AAS and did not search out the answers for yourself. it seems as if even during your year long journey with AAS, you have not learned anymore about it than when you started. you should start from ground zero and do all the research and understand what chemicals you are putting into your body are.

you should take off until you have an understanding of how your body reacts not only to AAS but to changes in your training and your diet.

your choice to blindly listen to your friend is as bad of a choice as a woman blindly listening to men who tell them to do 250mg of Deca a week as a first cycle. why anyone who wouldn't want to know as much about substance that they are putting into their body as possible is beyond me. and to have spent the amount of money you have on gear is almost criminal with your seeming lack of understanding of training and gear.

also, i remember reading a few days ago where you posted a remark in Bdubb's post that "GH was uselss" and yet i see you post in another GH thread that you're on serostim at 4iu/day and that's the best. so let's go back, tell me why you think GH is uselss?

i also remember reading posts from you in the past that pertain to training which showed that you are clearly new to working out. not that there's any problem with that, but how do you know whether you are growing from gear or changes in your routine? or even changes in your diet?

i certainly hope that you weren't purchasing your stuff from your NPC "friend" (yes and i put that in quotes because i cannot believe anyone who would make that type of wack job recommendation to you could be a true friend) because if you were, greed would be the only reason i can possibly see that he would choose to recommend you going on a year long cycle.

[trip]

IAMHUGE,

Well, needless to say it has been a huge year for you, damn, from 160 to 235 is 75 lbs. and at 10% that is a nice combo.

Toughest thing you will have to deal with is the MENTAL ASPECT.

Be realistic, the world reacts differently to a 235 lb man vs. a 160 lb man, especially at 6'-1".

Very smart you got blood work done, IMHO, if you were tossing the two up would say, better to have a crappy cycle with blood work than a sweet cycle with never getting any blood work, so on that part you should be commended.

It is going to be a big mental adjustment coming off, your body was thriving on rocket fuel for the last year and you are going to feel the effects of changing back to unleaded, it is just a simple fact.

The hard part is the transition, that first month. During that first month the changes in FEELING are so pronounced because your old FEELINGS of superiority are still fresh in the mind.

Once you get past that, your old test will take over and after another month you will be back to normal, and then normal will become okay once again.

Life is a marathon, not a sprint, take your time enjoy, don't do things that are harmful, be smart.

Hoped That Helped
Good Luck

[LARGELI]

OMG bro you only get one body in this lifetime, you realy need to take care of it. Dont be in such a hurry.

you asked how long you should take off before going back on???
my question to you, is why do you make AAS such a high priority?

AAS is only the iceing on the cake, you really need to make training/diet your top means of reaching your goal and use AAS as a little something extra. Now im not saying that your diet and training arent good, but even if you have a perfect diet and perfect training for your goals it sounds like you are putting too much importance on the AAS aspect.

I personally would take close to a year off, and then maybe toy around with some shorter cycles, and get my body familiar to how it react to different substances, and then put together a few longer cycles based on what i have experienced. That is just my opinion. I know a lot of people stay on year round but they are very experienced for the most part, and this was probably not the best idea for a first cycle.

[IAMHUGE]

Doom,

My thoughts on G are mixed. Yes I used Serostim almost for the whole year. 1 kit per seven weeks. my jurry is still out on how it affectes me. so I did contradict myself a little bit. sometimes I wonder if it is really worth all that money.

What makes me grow, and get strong?

I did work out reg. before going on and never saw any real gains. But when I got on, I grew at a crazy rate. I can't even begin to tell u how much my body has changed. my neck went from 14.5 to 18.5. I bust out of most xl or even xxl shirts.

I work out at a gym which is dominated by bodybuilders who use aas, and everyone was shocked by the speed and quality of my gains. My body ate that stuff up, and so did my ego.

My source puts cycles together for most everyone at the gym, so I just trusted him. Everyone around me trusted him too. It is only after I started using the net for info on aas that I saw some conflicting advice and began posting questions and reading a lot.

My fear is twofold: that I wont make any gains naturally, and I will shrink up as fast as I got big.


I have begun my pct, and will live and learn.

Thank you very much to all who have helped me out. It is nice to know that there are people out there who care!!!!!!!

[canadagold]

Originally posted by IAMHUGE
Doom, I have 25 clomid, 25 nolavdex, and 50 provirion. Again I have been on prop and eq 1cc of each eod for 8 weeks + denkall anadrol 75. I took a half a tab for ten days, and have been on 75mg ed ever since.

Should I stop the test/eq right now? Or keep running a little test while beginning pct, u tell me.

I don't know how fast I can get HCG, can I live w/o it. or should I seek it out ASAP?

I am a neewbie, but I did not realize I was fuc@#$g up. I know lots of people who run test year round with little or no breaks.

Again thank you to all for your help. I will keep you updated.

I have been reading this whole thread and I just want to say that I know a few pros, a few national level competitors and a lot of huge gym rats that never compete and one thing a lot of them have in common is that THEY DON"T KNOW SHIT when it comes to taking gear. Most don't come off ever or if they do it is not long enough. . .JUST BECAUSE A GUY IS PRO OR ALMOST THERE DOES NOT MEAN HE KNOWS ANYTHING!
PLease listen to what the others here are telling you and stop the gas and take some time off to get your blood tests done and let your body normalise. . .
Also, please tell me you get your gear yourself and that this NPC competitor is not supplying you. .if he is then I am not surprised that he told you to take stuff for a year straight; so many bodybuilders are leaches that will do whatever they can to get money and supplies for free from others to get where they are going. I have NEVER heard of anyone telling someone else to do anything like a one year cycle before; and I have been around aas and bodybuilding for a long time!
Keep us posted bro, we are here to help!
Canadagold

[canadagold]

I just read sana's comment after posting mine. . .we both thought the same thing. . .man, that guy is a real prick if he is the one supplying you. . .

[Doom]

The serostim is why your reviews are mixed, in comaparison to other GH on the market, its pure shit. In theory its to be used to surpress the "rotting" of the immune system, with disorders like HIV, a dose for them is 18iu a day...and that barely keeps them going...if you were just using the water that came with the kits, another reason why you might not have seen what you wanted, as the water only hold the GH stable for 24 hrs.

Like CG said, most pros dont really know a damn thing, they have doctors and real gurus map out there cycles based on their genetic dispostions, and majority of the growth youre gonna see with them is from the genetics they have, not the gallon of test people think they pump in themselves. Pro BBing is the one sport that you have to do whatever is necessary to remain in the game, and for many that means being deceptive, being a dealer, whoring themselves(yes to other men), unless you are independantly wealthy, or have a spectacular job, and ur trying to make it in the game, you will use anything and everything without weighing the risks, and even if you get to a certain point, the percentage that will actually make headlines and receieve the big contracts and money is very very small...so what has been accomplished, nothing!

Steroid use, is to enhance the mind, body and spirit, very rarely do we find people here using for true medical reasons, we are all guilty of vanity, and looking good, is what matters most.

I know in your mind, you're terrified of whats gonna happen when you come off, I will tell you, you WILL loose weight, size and strength, but again Ive said this several times in this post alone, what you keep post cycle is a combo of your dedication without chemical enhancement, proper diet, and supplementation, and training. You might not have seen proper gains for a number of reasons, diet, routine, frequency, anything could have been a factor...anyone can also pump test into them and grow, it doesnt mean anything.

Working out in a gym full of juice bags, who doesnt?...Im surrounded by 18 yr old morons who swallow 80 dbols before they walk in and spend half their time trying