The problems with typical bodybuilding splits

[Control]

Alot of you (probably most of you) have splits that look something like this

Mon. Chest
Tue. Arms
Wed. Back
Thur. Shoulders
Fri. Legs
Sat/Sun.


Now obviously those types of routines are the most common and work great for some people, and if you can honstly say that you are making steady, continuous gains, then more power to you. However, from what I've seen, most guys in the gym are making very slow progress or no progress at all with these routines. The guy with decent arm genetics has decent arms and the guy with decent chest genetics has a decent chest but most guys never gain any real mass or develop a truely impressive, balanced physique with a routine like this. IMO, it is completely flawed and the reason splits like this are still so poular despite their low success rate is because you have genetic freaks out there who can grow huge and ripped doing whatever they want in the gym. Typical newbies with average genetics see these guys or read about their routines in Flex magazine and copy them, with dissapointing results.

What's wrong with the routine above? It's based on working a different muscle group each day, which is not how your body works. For example:

Mon. was chest day but since you did bench you also worked your front delts and triceps.

Tue was arms, so you just hit triceps 2 days in a row.

Wed was back, but you use your biceps doing rows and pull-ups so now you just hit biceps 2 days in a row.

Thursday is shoulders so you just hit rear delts 2 days in a row and you've now hit triceps and fronts delts again doing military presses.

Friday is legs. Sat/sunday rest (from lifting anyway).

So, in one week you hit triceps 3 times, front delts twice, biceps twice, rear delts twice, (and here's the really great part) chest, back and legs once.

Your body has more muscle in your legs /glutes than your arms and shoulders combined! In fact you should have the same amount of muscle in your lower body as you have in your upper body (that's called symmetry in bodybuilding) so why would you spend 4 days on your upper body and 1 on your lower body?????

So what's my alternative? Well an upper body/lower body split is a great choice, but that's a hard adjustment for somebody who's been training different body parts every day. What I do at least 90% of the time is the classic, underrated, Push/Pull/Legs split (or Push/Legs/Pull/Legs).

By doing all your pushing exercises (Presses/Dips/Tricep isolation) on one day and all your pulling exercises (Rows/Pull-ups/Curls) on another day, you avoid overtraining some muscles while under-training others. This is MUCH more congruent to solid, balanced muscle gain. Most people have the same two issues with this routine:

Control, I need to be in the gym more than 3 days a week bro, lifting weights is like crack to me

No problem, if you have the recovery ability you just do a 1 on 1 off, 2 on 1 off or even 3 on 1 off routine.

There's no way I can hit that many muscles in one workout, I do 6 different exercises for triceps alone

Well, you may have 6 different triceps exercises but you don't need to do each one on every push day. By alternating exercises you can stay on the Push/Pull/Legs routine forever and still "keep your body guessing". The basis of any good routine is compound movements anyway and that's sometimes all I do.


Just to give everybody an idea of how I use the Push/pull/legs routine I'm gonna go ahead and keep a log of my workouts for awhile. Anybody else who uses it is more than welcome to too.

[Control]

Today I'm off but here's yesterday's pull workout:

Machine rows with a pronated grip
Weighted pull-ups
Rear delt raises off an incline bench
dumbell preacher curls
partial deadlifts (rack pulls)

[redback]

i totally agree, this is why im training every 2nd day using a push/pull routine of only compound movements

[THE BOUNCER]

good post control, i do it a little different but i dont think the average lifter should follow my routine.

instead of lifting 5 days straight and then taking Sat/Sun off. my schedule looks like this:

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

Its set up so that the workout the day before doesn't interfere with the next days workout. this works for me but then again I am on AAS and I think my genetics are a little better then most in terms of recovery.

[Control]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

good post control, i do it a little different but i dont think the average lifter should follow my routine.

instead of lifting 5 days straight and then taking Sat/Sun off. my schedule looks like this:

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

Its set up so that the workout the day before doesn't interfere with the next days workout. this works for me but then again I am on AAS and I think my genetics are a little better then most in terms of recovery.

Well, you're still hitting upper body 4 days and lower body once, but like I said if you're making gains more power to you.

The thing is if you were on a Push/Pull/Legs split , working out 5 days a week (like you are now) you'd be hitting everything about once every 5 days as opposed to once every 7. With your genetics and the AAS you might be seeing better gains than what you're seeing now due to increased frequency. Just a thought.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Control

Well, you're still hitting upper body 4 days and lower body once, but like I said if you're making gains more power to you.

The thing is if you were on a Push/Pull/Legs split , working out 5 days a week (like you are now) you'd be hitting everything about once every 5 days as opposed to once every 7. With your genetics and the AAS you might be seeing better gains than what you're seeing now due to increased frequency. Just a thought.

maybe i will give it a try for a month or so and see how i like it. only way to know is to give it a try.

so how exactly would you lay it out. i know for example i wouldnt want to do all my pulls in one day. know what i mean?

[Scrumhalf]

Control, that was a very thought-provoking post. Can you post a recommended routine since I have never thought about your approach very deeply?

[Control]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

maybe i will give it a try for a month or so and see how i like it. only way to know is to give it a try.

so how exactly would you lay it out. i know for example i wouldnt want to do all my pulls in one day. know what i mean?

Well for a pull day I would do one type of row, one type of pull-up/pull-down, one type of curl, then either upright rows or a partial deadlifts (maybe a shrug if you want). Then I'll usually do rear delts to finish up. The next workout it's a different type of row and a different type of pull-up/pull-down etc..

For push days I'll do 2 different presses (bench, military press, dips), a flye movement, and usually lateral raises of some kind. If I have extra energy I might do tricep pressdowns or raises to the front.

Legs is usually just a quick warm-up on the bike and then squats followed by leg curls or romanian deads. Once in awhile I might substitute leg presses for squats but not often.

Time plays a factor in this too. If it's a weekday and I'm strapped for time, push day might just be bench press and dips. I can knock that out in 20 minutes and know that I've hit chest, front delts and triceps. On a saturday I might end up doing 10 different exercises cuz I have more time and I tend to eat and rest a little more on the weekends.

[Control]

Does that help^^^^?

Originally Posted by Scrumhalf

Control, that was a very thought-provoking post. Can you post a recommended routine since I have never thought about your approach very deeply?

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Control

Well for a pull day I would do one type of row, one type of pull-up/pull-down, one type of curl, then either upright rows or a partial deadlifts (maybe a shrug if you want). Then I'll usually do rear delts to finish up. The next workout it's a different type of row and a different type of pull-up/pull-down etc..

For push days I'll do 2 different presses (bench, military press, dips), a flye movement, and usually lateral raises of some kind. If I have extra energy I might do tricep pressdowns or raises to the front.

Legs is usually just a quick warm-up on the bike and then squats followed by leg curls or romanian deads. Once in awhile I might substitute leg presses for squats but not often.

Time plays a factor in this too. If it's a weekday and I'm strapped for time, push day might just be bench press and dips. I can knock that out in 20 minutes and know that I've hit chest, front delts and triceps. On a saturday I might end up doing 10 different exercises cuz I have more time and I tend to eat and rest a little more on the weekends.

arent you in effect doing the same muscles every other day though? all pull exercises use biceps, back etc.. all push exercises use shoulders, tri's, etc..

[Control]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

arent you in effect doing the same muscles every other day though? all pull exercises use biceps, back etc.. all push exercises use shoulders, tri's, etc..

No cuz you have leg day and you still have off days. So instead of this:

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

It would look like this:

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Push

Wednesday: Pull

Thursday: Legs

Friday: Off

Saturday: Push

Sunday: Pull

(then the next week starts with legs on tuesday then push on wednesday etc)

You'd be hitting each muscle group once every 5 days.


That's assuming you want to keep the same days off during the week (in your case mondays and fridays). I usually lift 2 on 1 off, but it depends on how I feel and what I've got going on.

[NewbieChris]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

arent you in effect doing the same muscles every other day though? all pull exercises use biceps, back etc.. all push exercises use shoulders, tri's, etc..

I think that is the point, but its not every other day.

I think in terms I can understand Control, your workout would look something like this?

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Pull
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: off

and then you rotate through it that way like you would any none 7 day workout pattern?

And the other was:

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Pull
Day 4: Legs
Day 5: off

Right?

My question is about non-beginners. You're taking someone who has done multiple exercises and multiple reps down to such a minimum number. Does that have the same impact on muscle growth?

[Control]

Originally Posted by NewbieChris

I think that is the point, but its not every other day.

I think in terms I can understand Control, your workout would look something like this?

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Pull
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: off

and then you rotate through it that way like you would any none 7 day workout pattern?

And the other was:

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Pull
Day 4: Legs
Day 5: off

Right?

Yeah push/pull/legs is the pattern no matter what but you could do it lots of different ways, 1 on 1 off, 2 on 1 on off, 3 0n 1 off whatever.

Originally Posted by NewbieChris

My question is about non-beginners. You're taking someone who has done multiple exercises and multiple reps down to such a minimum number. Does that have the same impact on muscle growth?

Lets say your typical chest workout is

4 sets bench
4 sets cable crossovers
4 sets incline dumbell press
4 sets decline bench

now on your push day you're still doing
4 sets bench
4 sets dips
4 sets cable crossovers
(plus lateral raises and maybe tricep pressdowns)

That's 12 sets for chest instead of 16, but instead of hitting chest once every 7 days you're hitting it once every 5. So the overall work load is acually more in the long term. Once you've been lifting for awhile and you get that strong mind-muscle connection and you really learn how to focus your intensity you can start to get more out of fewer sets, at least that's been my experience.

[NewbieChris]

Okay, so the key to the situation is the control of compound movements in connections with the idea that you are keeping the training intense? Interesting.

[Mr.Mafioso]

great post control


i recall u mentioning that sometimes u dont have time to work out and bust out a workout in 20 mins.
how is that satisfactory to you? i feel like if i dont sweat or am at the gym for at least an hour i get frustrated and feel that i have cheated myself.

does it matter how long ur work out is or if u break a sweat?

[dna9488]

Damn control good post. I like this layout a lot. Like scrumhalf said, its thought provoking.

I c that cardio is not being incorporated. I was thinking about modifying this routine like so:

Mon: Push
Tues: Cardio
Wed: Pull
Thurs: Cardio
Fri: Legs
Sad/Sun off

[Nekrawulf]

Dont get me started haha

[Scrumhalf]

So, would Push incorporate exercises that hit the chest, shoulder and triceps, and Pull have ones that hit the biceps and lats? That simplistically is what I imagine when I think of pushing and pulling motions.

[Control]

Originally Posted by Mr.Mafioso

great post control


i recall u mentioning that sometimes u dont have time to work out and bust out a workout in 20 mins.
how is that satisfactory to you? i feel like if i dont sweat or am at the gym for at least an hour i get frustrated and feel that i have cheated myself.

does it matter how long ur work out is or if u break a sweat?

That's rare, I usually spend 45 minutes to an hour in the gym.

However, if I'm in a situation where I have to squeeze a workout into 20 minutes I can do it ,and sometimes if I have to choose between a 20 minute workout and and just skipping the gym all together I'll hit the gym for 20 minutes (especially if I know I won't have time the next day.)

In 20 minutes I can superset pec-deck flyes and weighted dips for 5 sets each then have time for a drop-set on the military press machine. If the intensity is there, you can suffeciently stimulate the muscle that quickly.

[Control]

Originally Posted by dna9488

Damn control good post. I like this layout a lot. Like scrumhalf said, its thought provoking.

I c that cardio is not being incorporated. I was thinking about modifying this routine like so:

Mon: Push
Tues: Cardio
Wed: Pull
Thurs: Cardio
Fri: Legs
Sad/Sun off

I just didn't mention cardio. I usually do cardio on off days but sometimes I do cardio on days I lift too.

[Control]

Originally Posted by Scrumhalf

So, would Push incorporate exercises that hit the chest, shoulder and triceps, and Pull have ones that hit the biceps and lats? That simplistically is what I imagine when I think of pushing and pulling motions.

Yes, basically. With front delts on push day and rear delts on pull day.