The problems with typical bodybuilding splits

[fog_hat1981]

Nekrawulf - I do want to ask this though - you've said that Control is taking a step in the right direction and that your splits/workouts kick homeostatis' butt - however you also said you're not going for the "Bodybuilding" type physique either BUT let's say that you were or you were working with someone who had that goal - what would you recommend to THEM???

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by Shibby

My question is , in no way meant to be questionable, how did you two educate yourself on this? It's great to hear these perspectives, but I also would like to know how you came upon these thoughts. I have done a lot of compound movements in the recent time, but it's not for mass building. I have had a feeling of being more symmetrical in the sense that my body works together in it's goals instead of having "dead spots" or lagging parts. Does that make sense?

I read all types of literature and journals on exercise science, physiology, kinesiology, and diet.

The more I read. The more I am overtly convinced that Genetics and endocrinic manipulation play a much larger role than the scientific community give it credit for. It all started with my deep research into anabolics and the hows and whys they worked.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Nekrawulf

The problem with standard splits, and many others that FItness Magazines tout, is that these splits were designed on the premise that the athlete was using AAS.

This type of workout split has a focus on muscluar isolation and hypertrophy, which when applied to the scale recommended by the non AAS user... induces overtraining and a negating autocrinic response from the body.. actually hindering gains.

Control, you are taking a step in the right direction with your proposed split, and it is one I used alot when I was still doing "bodybuilding" type workouts.

The basis of functional weight movement can be broken down into the 3 categories you named above. Push, Pull, Core. I consider legs part of the core, because the most power is generated from the hips, as opposed from the legs (even though popular opinion would disagree).

Seperating your split into these 3 categories causes you to do a few things. It causes you to incorporate more compound lifts than you otherwise would, and it also causes you to train across a broader spectrum of the muscular-skeletal systems and possibly incorporate a different set of base movements with every workout.

A wonderful side effect of all this is a higher neurological stress induced form the workout, and a higher endocrininc/autocrinic response (think more "natural" release of testosterone, glucagen, and other wonderful eichasanoid).

Varied stimulation to induce a rapid biological response to overcome the new variable in training is key to overcoming plataeus.

great post, these are the kind of posts i would like to see more. no more of your 3 word posts.

Question though, you said that the conventional type of workout was designed for the steroid using bodybuilder. so is the conventional way somehow better for someone using steroids?

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by fog_hat1981

Nekrawulf - I do want to ask this though - you've said that Control is taking a step in the right direction and that your splits/workouts kick homeostatis' butt - however you also said you're not going for the "Bodybuilding" type physique either BUT let's say that you were or you were working with someone who had that goal - what would you recommend to THEM???

Constantly varied, high intensity, functional movements.

Work muscles PRIMARILY as groups, not individuals. And you will have a much more superior response to the training. Of course For hypertrophys sake, you will need to isolate the muscles that you are not properly engaging in the compound training. Mark Rippetoe(author of "Starting Strength" has a similar training protocol to mine, excepts that he incorporated "bodybuilding" movements like those listed earlier in the thread to help isolate certain "lagging" parts


The irony of my situation is this... Since I came off AAS and focused on the performance module, my symmetry has naturally balanced itself out.

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

great post, these are the kind of posts i would like to see more. no more of your 3 word posts.

Question though, you said that the conventional type of workout was designed for the steroid using bodybuilder. so is the conventional way somehow better for someone using steroids?

yes. I wont deny that..... But only to a small degree.

Typical splits, when on cycle, are specialized in creating maximum hypertrophy. Thus giving the most bank for the buck. That is, until your body adapts to that regimen on training. AAS helps to prolong this adaptation, but it is inevitable, and the longer you have been training, the faster the adaptation.

This is why vets get smaller gains than newbs.

With a less specialized split as Control suggests, you have more leeway for variation in the workout, and a higher resistance to adaptation.

We all say it... all the time... you HAVE to mix it up...

But in reality we don't, we only shuffle around the same old splits.

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

g. no more of your 3 word posts.

what you mean?

[THE BOUNCER]

i know this is going to be a pain in the ass but can you put together a program for me of how you would lay out the training. i am kind of having a hard time understanding which groups to work on different days.

this is my current program.

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

how should i change this? i know control explained it a bit but for some reason i seem to be having a hard time figuring out how to transform my program above into the one you guys are describing.

thanks

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Nekrawulf

what you mean?

many of your posts lately have been very short little effort posts. kind of like your first post in this thread, "dont even get me started" or whatever you said. well i am sure glad we got you started because you have a lot of great knowledge to share.

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

i know this is going to be a pain in the ass but can you put together a program for me of how you would lay out the training. i am kind of having a hard time understanding which groups to work on different days.

this is my current program.

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

how should i change this? i know control explained it a bit but for some reason i seem to be having a hard time figuring out how to transform my program above into the one you guys are describing.

thanks

First we need to lay out your goals, What would you like to accomplish with this split.

Try to be very precise.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Nekrawulf

First we need to lay out your goals, What would you like to accomplish with this split.

Try to be very precise.

my goal is always the same. mass. i am currently on low dose test and tren cycle and want to maximize it.

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

my goal is always the same. mass.

Ok.

What are some of your favorite exercises that you use to achieve this goal?

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Nekrawulf

Ok.

What are some of your favorite exercises that you use to achieve this goal?

i use pretty basic movements for the most part and usually only do 2-3 sets per muscle group. for example, today i did chest. i did 3 sets of DB incline presses for 10 reps each. then i did 3 sets of wide press hammer strength for 10 reps each. finished off with standing cable flys at 3 sets for 15 reps each. i always train as heavy as i can go without loosing form or control.

when i train arms i do 2 sets for triceps and 3 sets for biceps. for triceps i do 3 sets of skull crushers and 3 sets of seated behind the head DB tricep presses. for biceps i will do 3 sets of straight bar curls, 3 sets of DB hammer curls, and 3 sets of machine curls to finish off.

of course i change exercises up each week but i think you get the idea.

[Scrumhalf]

This has got to be one of the best threads on SM in quite a while. Lots of knowledge being shared - keep it going guys!

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Scrumhalf

This has got to be one of the best threads on SM in quite a while. Lots of knowledge being shared - keep it going guys!

agreed, i think you will also agree that the board as a whole has had a better attitude the last few months.

[Shibby]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

agreed, i think you will also agree that the board as a whole has had a better attitude the last few months.

The last eight days for sure

In all seriousness, have you notice that is has simply been a lot more conversation and un-heated debate than flaming over stupid shit...

[Nekrawulf]

SO heres what we can do.

You only have one goal, so we cannot balance, mix, and match moevements to different goals.

What we can move around are your rest days, and the exercises incorporated on these days.

I recommend a 3 day on, 1 day off approach. with a 4 mechanic base.

Your 4 mechanics are:

Push
Pull
Core
Hips

And here is how you run it. ps - pl-c-rest-h-ps-pl-rest And so on.

This changes the rest day variable and allows for a variance in that manner.

Incorporate 1 compound lift with every workout and 2-3 secondary exercises using your current Hypertrophy based scheme 8-12 reps.

I want 4 sets of the compound lift and 2 sets of the ancillary exercises.

You continue like this until you cycle completely through the mechanics twice. In other words your split comes full circle twice and you are looking at another "ps - pl-c-rest" Series.

NOW! you change the order of the mechanics mayyybeeeee "hips-pull-core push" and you also change the workout scheme. Maybe this time only do 2 sets of a compound life and 3 each of the accillaries.

Rinse, recycle, change and repeat.


Now remember.... some compound lifts encompass multiple mechanics, but only associate that compound lift with that particular mechanic that it focuses on.

Here are sample compound lifts per mechanic

Push - Dips, Bench
Pull - Pullups, Clean
Core - Deadlift, Overhead Squat
Hips - Snatch, Back Squat

There are many more, but these are just a couple to give you a general idea of what direction to go.

Change things up frequently, exercises, methods, underwear.

Whatever it takes to keep homestasis guessing what you will be doing next.

Most important thing, do not be afraid to deviate... i.e. say you feel you need to 3 ancillary isolation exercises... DO IT. Only you know what you can and cant handle.

[THE BOUNCER]

maybe you explained it above but i am still a little confused here. how may sets would i be doing on each day? 3? like 3 pull movements on monday and then 3 push movements on Tuesday? i am not sure why i am having such a hard time with this.

[Nekrawulf]

I want 4 sets of the compound lift and 2 sets of the ancillary exercises.
All of that mechanic that you are focusing on for that day.
so on your pull day you can do, 4 sets of weighted pullups(or non weighted), 2or3 sets of Curls, 2or3 sets of lateral raises.... etc (just as long as they are pull centric) Be sure to hit a wide range of muscles, as you have a lot of exercises to choose from, and you may hit similar muscle groups on other mechanic days.

remember this is 3 on 1 off, not mwttfss. days of the week dont matter