The problems with typical bodybuilding splits

[Mr incredible]

Thought provoking as ever control but I don't agree;

1) trainin biceps after back is worthless, the brachia is torched and the bicep is half exhausted too so I can't stimulate growth since I can use heavy enough weight on curly
2) same goes for triceps after chest, worthless to even try for me
3) MY LEGS NEED A FULL WEEK TO RECOVER and if I'm trying to do cardio aswell then training them as often as you suggest would just result a torn muscle unless I train ligh always, not enough recovery and I don't agree that because a muscle is bigger it should be trained more frequently, whatever the muscle in needs 72 hrs IME

training a four day split; chest Bi's, Shoulders Tri'c, Legs, Back works well for me. Yes there is some duplicity on front delt in training shoulders after chest but its a different insertion point of the head. Also I agree that chest uses tri's but the focus and direction of my attention is chest on that day, trying to use the arms as hooks amd move the weight mostly with chest. Tri's are still relatively fresh after shoulders so I can hit them hard.

The splits have been around for a long time bro, for good reason, they work

[The_Grinder]

I just started the push/pull/legs and I can honestly say that I love it. I feel like I hit everything just as hard as before, but the fact that I can change and make up my workouts every week makes me look forward to going to the gym everyday. Plus, being natural and 21 years old, I feel this split lets me center my workouts around the compound lifts that are going to help me grow. i.e. Squat, deads, bench, shoulder press, weighted dips, etc. Only thing is, although I feel like I have the intensity I need, I do feel like i have a little bit left in the tank after a workout. But that just gets me looking forward to the next workout.

[Control]

Originally Posted by Mr incredible

Thought provoking as ever control but I don't agree;

1) trainin biceps after back is worthless, the brachia is torched and the bicep is half exhausted too so I can't stimulate growth since I can use heavy enough weight on curly
2) same goes for triceps after chest, worthless to even try for me
3) MY LEGS NEED A FULL WEEK TO RECOVER and if I'm trying to do cardio aswell then training them as often as you suggest would just result a torn muscle unless I train ligh always, not enough recovery and I don't agree that because a muscle is bigger it should be trained more frequently, whatever the muscle in needs 72 hrs IME

training a four day split; chest Bi's, Shoulders Tri'c, Legs, Back works well for me. Yes there is some duplicity on front delt in training shoulders after chest but its a different insertion point of the head. Also I agree that chest uses tri's but the focus and direction of my attention is chest on that day, trying to use the arms as hooks amd move the weight mostly with chest. Tri's are still relatively fresh after shoulders so I can hit them hard.

The splits have been around for a long time bro, for good reason, they work

1) I disagree and I have 20" arms. Sounds like you're using too much biceps during your back exercises.
2) The two best triceps exercises are bench press and dips. Do these on chest day then throw in a few sets of some tricep isolation exercise and they'll grow. You don't need lots of fancy tricep isolation exercises. Most people over-train the triceps and they don't grow. That little "horse-shoe" part dosn't look impressive on a 15" arm.
3) I train legs once every 5 days or so and they recover fine. Powerlifters squat 3 times a week. Lots of athletes (cyclists, speed skaters, etc) thrash their legs even more often and don't tear muscles.

[Mr incredible]

I suppose we all have to find what works for us, I've had my arms pretty close to 20'' (19'' right now) before when I used more gear and ate more, but the training routine was pretty much the same, just more weight. I'm not someone that measures and weighs all the time though I don't think that really tells the full storey.

Its srange that you say you train legs every 5 days and cite powerlifters frequency etc but claim training bicepts on seperate day to back and tris's on seperate day to chest can cause over train, seems a little contadictory.

It may be that I use bi's a bit during back but I think its mainly brachias (spell) in the arm, although I do try and focus on the squeezing of the back. I just feel that after training back I can't handle the same weight on bicepts as I could hitting them fresh and they don't get stimulated as well. I've seen lots of guys over the years that used to trainl; chest and tri's and back and bi's together and they came to realise it was better to hit them fresh. I actually sometimes train bi's with tri's as one workout and find that works very well but usually chest and bi's and tri's after shoulders (I find they are warmed up but not bombed like after chest.

In terms of actual excercises, I actually class french press/skull crushers as a compound tricep movement and cable pressdowns as an isolation.

your suggestions do IMO suit beginers though in keeping things simple, good thread as usual

[dna9488]

alright....this is the 2nd week i have tried Push/Pull/Legs spilt. My week looks like this:

Monday: Push
Tuesday: Pull
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Cardio (1hr)
Friday: Legs


I honestly can say, something about this workout is killing me. I hit 2 exercises for each muscle (except for legs), and i have been sore for a few days longer than my previous spilt.

Great thread Control, all i can say is its working for me, and the beauty of this spilt is i can change up different exercises for each muscle group and still have my muscle guessing

[THE BOUNCER]

good to hear dna. keep at it.

[dna9488]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

good to hear dna. keep at it.

Thanks bro

[3v1lj03]

I wanna see those 20 " arms.

[The_Grinder]

I've been at this split for a month and a half or so. Can't say for sure that it works WAY better than body part splits but my focus is tons better now that I can switch which lifts I do every workout. I added heavy Good-Mornings to pull day as a deadlift substitute every now and then. It is really helping my deadlift numbers.

[dna9488]

Originally Posted by The_Grinder

I've been at this split for a month and a half or so. Can't say for sure that it works WAY better than body part splits but my focus is tons better now that I can switch which lifts I do every workout. I added heavy Good-Mornings to pull day as a deadlift substitute every now and then. It is really helping my deadlift numbers.

Have you seen any gains????

[3v1lj03]

I have gained 28 lbs of lbm in 34 weeks on a 5 day split what can I expect from your type of workout. BTW no A.s.s in my supplements either

[dna9488]

Originally Posted by 3v1lj03

I have gained 28 lbs of lbm in 34 weeks on a 5 day split what can I expect from your type of workout. BTW no A.s.s in my supplements either

Well it depends one each person. Your diet, gene's, workout regement will have an impact on how you gain mass

Once you start to plauteu, you can try this workout regement

Thats what i did, and i am feeling each workout and seeing slight gains within these 2 weeks.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by 3v1lj03

I have gained 28 lbs of lbm in 34 weeks on a 5 day split what can I expect from your type of workout. BTW no A.s.s in my supplements either

that depends on more factors that just a training split. diet is key in weight gain.

also, its AAS as in Anabolic/Androgenic Steroids. not ASS.

[The_Grinder]

Originally Posted by dna9488

Have you seen any gains????

Strength gains, but since I started the routine at the beginning of my feeble attempt at cutting not much in the way of size. My back is getting much stronger. I started the routine deadlifting 315 as my last set which was 3 reps. Just yesterday my last set was 3 reps of 375. Also when I started I could do about 8 good pull-ups with my bodyweight. Just yesterday I ended off with 10 reps with 35 pounds strapped on a belt.

[dna9488]

Originally Posted by The_Grinder

Strength gains, but since I started the routine at the beginning of my feeble attempt at cutting not much in the way of size. My back is getting much stronger. I started the routine deadlifting 315 as my last set which was 3 reps. Just yesterday my last set was 3 reps of 375. Also when I started I could do about 8 good pull-ups with my bodyweight. Just yesterday I ended off with 10 reps with 35 pounds strapped on a belt.

WOW man, thats really good, keep it up

[fog_hat1981]

Originally Posted by 3v1lj03

I wanna see those 20 " arms.

Control hasn't ever posted pictures that I'm aware of but Mr. Incredible's arms are definitely near the 19 to 20 inch mark bro...

[3v1lj03]

Well thats why I do the big squats cause I don't have ass. Maybe if I used some a.a.s. I would grow an ass. I knew that would get me in trouble but I didn't realize what I had written until I was driving.
Thanks Control when I plateau I will definitely give it a look or whatever it takes to break it. As for diet I am tired of eating. I am thinking about cutting just so I can stop eating all the time.

[The_Grinder]

Originally Posted by 3v1lj03

Well thats why I do the big squats cause I don't have ass. Maybe if I used some a.a.s. I would grow an ass. I knew that would get me in trouble but I didn't realize what I had written until I was driving.
Thanks Control when I plateau I will definitely give it a look or whatever it takes to break it. As for diet I am tired of eating. I am thinking about cutting just so I can stop eating all the time.

Add some light cardio to increase your appetite.

[Control]

I actually tried do arms on their own day again just to mix things up. I wasn't any stronger on my arm exercises than I am after training major muscle groups.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Control

I actually tried do arms on their own day again just to mix things up. I wasn't any stronger on my arm exercises than I am after training major muscle groups.

not sure what you are saying here. are you basically saying that everything you have said in this thread may be wrong in that you haven't gotten any stronger?

maybe i misread.

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

not sure what you are saying here. are you basically saying that everything you have said in this thread may be wrong in that you haven't gotten any stronger?

maybe i misread.

Training major muscle groups wont make him stronger in bi isolation exercises. It will make him stronger in more functional movement.

Point in case, I can clean much more now than I could 30 lbs heavier, but I cant even come close to my preacher curl max.

[THE BOUNCER]

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