Possible $2 Trillion Tax Increase

[SonofBone]

What does everyone think about this? I think it sucks &

A bee will do what a bee will do (sting),
A snake will do what a snake will do (bite),
and democrats will do what democrats will do (tax).

The Democrats' Possible $2 Trillion Tax Increase

It looks like House Democrats are aiming to fulfill their promise to restore pay-as-you-go–or pay-go–budget rules in the new Congress. On Friday, the House will vote on a provision (PDF) that would not allow consideration of any bill that increase the deficit via new entitlement programs or tax cuts. Such a step would "represent a significant step toward a return of fiscal responsibility," according to the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

The Dems' version of pay-go would also be another step toward killing the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts, due to expire in 2010. The rules "would render it much more difficult to extend those tax cuts because it would require that they be fully offset through other tax increases or spending cuts," says budget analyst Brian Riedl of the conservative Heritage Foundation. Repealing the Bush tax cuts would, in effect, be a roughly $200 billion tax increase starting in 2011. So over 10 years, the period over which the costs of these things are usually calculated, elimination of the tax cuts means a $2 trillion tax increase–assuming no effect on economic growth. The repeal might make budget hawks happy but maybe not families who would see a $500-a-kid cut in their child tax credit or investors who would face higher capital gains taxes. For his part, Riedl would like to see a much tougher pay-go system and have it enshrined into statute. His ideal pay-go would:

— be a law, not just a "porous" congressional rule;

— apply to so-called emergency spending;

— apply to existing entitlement spending, not just new programs.

Posted at 12:00 PM by James Pethokoukis

[rado]

Good for them

[grnmchn]

Makes me want to vomit!

[Shibby]

It will be tough, but was else can we do at this point. Do we want our US Dollar to be worth as little as a Peso or Yen? A lot of the reason gas cost so much (amongst many other things) is because a single dollar is not worth what it use to be. Famalies that need that tax break for thier kids, is in part due to the minimum wage not going up and the money they make is worth less.

[hlcn8]

most of the tax cuts they're looking to roll-back were those that benefited the wealthiest 1% of the population and large corporations in the first place, and would hardly affect most of us. i'm willing to bet the tactic taken by those opposed to this to be the characterization of these roll-backs as ones that will hurt the lower and middle class, which they really wouldn't. but hey, it's the rich people w/ the money who are the squeakiest wheels and who most often get the "oil," all puns intended.

[redsquirrel]

Originally Posted by Shibby

It will be tough, but was else can we do at this point. Do we want our US Dollar to be worth as little as a Peso or Yen? A lot of the reason gas cost so much (amongst many other things) is because a single dollar is not worth what it use to be. Famalies that need that tax break for thier kids, is in part due to the minimum wage not going up and the money they make is worth less.

Exactly. And actually Shib- we voted here in our state to have minimum wage increased, and it passed. What was really amusing is to watch the opponents talk about how it's going to impact small businesses negatively, etc. Right. Whatever. Maybe the opponents haven't heard about the huge "working poor" population in this country. So, God forbid we give them an extra $2 a day. Maybe now they can keep their electric on for the next month.

There really is no other way to get out of the huge deficit this country has. In fact, it's the worst deficit in history due to the seriously expensive and unnecessary mess we've gotten ourselves into in Iraq. The law listed below, actually looks pretty good. I think it's great idea to impose higher tax on capital gains. Most of the investors who make these huge capital gains are in the top 5% tax bracket, so how much money do they really need? The only way it really impacts middle class families is the $500 reduction in tax credit. Big deal...$500....I mean, as it stands now OUR GRANDchildren will still be paying this debt we are in.

[bonebreaker]

Originally Posted by redsquirrel

Exactly. And actually Shib- we voted here in our state to have minimum wage increased, and it passed. What was really amusing is to watch the opponents talk about how it's going to impact small businesses negatively, etc. Right. Whatever. Maybe the opponents haven't heard about the huge "working poor" population in this country. So, God forbid we give them an extra $2 a day. Maybe now they can keep their electric on for the next month.

There really is no other way to get out of the huge deficit this country has. In fact, it's the worst deficit in history due to the seriously expensive and unnecessary mess we've gotten ourselves into in Iraq. The law listed below, actually looks pretty good. I think it's great idea to impose higher tax on capital gains. Most of the investors who make these huge capital gains are in the top 5% tax bracket, so how much money do they really need? The only way it really impacts middle class families is the $500 reduction in tax credit. Big deal...$500....I mean, as it stands now OUR GRANDchildren will still be paying this debt we are in.

Our deficit was WAY WAY out of line BEFORE the Iraqi conflict. Even though I don't agree we should be there, the tiny bit of money we're spending there--relative to the the total deficit, is insignificant.

The problem with this huge deficit and where most of it comes from is unecessary spending on "social programs", "earmarks", federal contractor gouging and other items that make individual politicians popular in their districts. This is not a democratic or republican individual problem--they're ALL crooks and only looking out for themselves, NOT their constituents. If you think this "new congress" will do anything that drastically reduces this deficit, you're dreaming. If you remember, 12 years ago the republicans "kicked" the democrats out for exactly the same reason---The voters, US, actually. It's the same old garbage with different crooks. When the "new congress" does nothing constructive, in a few years, the citizens will tire of them and "clean house" again and replace the crooks again. It's the same old story over and over again--SADLY.

Increasing the minimum wage sounds good, initially. However, regardless of what the increase is, you have to remember that people will only work for a wage if it gives them better options. Many, many people will NOT work regardless of what the wage is, unless they can make more money working than they can by laying around on their fat asses and get more money from good ole Uncle Sam by doing so. Why in the hell would someone take a minimum wage job, even if it were $4.00 more an hour if they can get more benefits by not working? Want more money, have more dependent children? I have seen, as you have, these supposed "poor people", on the news. I'll say one thing, they sure as hell aren't starving. Most of them are 300 pounders.

JFK and LBJ and their "social programs", which started in the 60's, especially LBJ's "Great Society", started this country on the road to ruination. Sure, there was a war going on where we didn't belong, but that's not what started the snowball of spending. It was the "give 'em anything they want" through social programs attitude. Trillions of dollars later, we have only created a welfare nation that I can see will never end unless these programs are changed drastically.

Government waste, greed, stupidity,(democrats and republicans), and laziness of many citizens, have put us in the horrible shape we're in.

I would say how we can correct this problem in about 6 months, but the NSA, FBI, CIA and other agencies would be at my house within 5 minutes of reading my solution. BB

[hlcn8]

Originally Posted by bonebreaker

Our deficit was WAY WAY out of line BEFORE the Iraqi conflict. Even though I don't agree we should be there, the tiny bit of money we're spending there--relative to the the total deficit, is insignificant.

The problem with this huge deficit and where most of it comes from is unecessary spending on "social programs", "earmarks", federal contractor gouging and other items that make individual politicians popular in their districts. This is not a democratic or republican individual problem--they're ALL crooks and only looking out for themselves, NOT their constituents. If you think this "new congress" will do anything that drastically reduces this deficit, you're dreaming. If you remember, 12 years ago the republicans "kicked" the democrats out for exactly the same reason---The voters, US, actually. It's the same old garbage with different crooks. When the "new congress" does nothing constructive, in a few years, the citizens will tire of them and "clean house" again and replace the crooks again. It's the same old story over and over again--SADLY.

Increasing the minimum wage sounds good, initially. However, regardless of what the increase is, you have to remember that people will only work for a wage if it gives them better options. Many, many people will NOT work regardless of what the wage is, unless they can make more money working than they can by laying around on their fat asses and get more money from good ole Uncle Sam by doing so. Why in the hell would someone take a minimum wage job, even if it were $4.00 more an hour if they can get more benefits by not working? Want more money, have more dependent children? I have seen, as you have, these supposed "poor people", on the news. I'll say one thing, they sure as hell aren't starving. Most of them are 300 pounders.

JFK and LBJ and their "social programs", which started in the 60's, especially LBJ's "Great Society", started this country on the road to ruination. Sure, there was a war going on where we didn't belong, but that's not what started the snowball of spending. It was the "give 'em anything they want" through social programs attitude. Trillions of dollars later, we have only created a welfare nation that I can see will never end unless these programs are changed drastically.

Government waste, greed, stupidity,(democrats and republicans), and laziness of many citizens, have put us in the horrible shape we're in.

I would say how we can correct this problem in about 6 months, but the NSA, FBI, CIA and other agencies would be at my house within 5 minutes of reading my solution. BB

lot of good points! i sometimes feel however that those on welfare are often used as scapegoats by the the "pork barrel" funding and powerful corporations ala Haliburton.

If any of you want a great view on this, read "confessions of an economic hitman." it'll throw you a new perspective and confound you.

i'm reminded of rush limbaugh, who railed for years against those on welfare until it was revealed that he spent a significant period of time on it himself. lots of social programs have shown their worth when given an objective look, i know of several teen outreach programs that through the years, despite rising population and overcrowding, resulted at least in part in a decline in teen crime rates, etc. and of course, there will always be some douche-bag leaches of the system...

[bonebreaker]

Originally Posted by hlcn8

lot of good points! i sometimes feel however that those on welfare are often used as scapegoats by the the "pork barrel" funding and powerful corporations ala Haliburton.

If any of you want a great view on this, read "confessions of an economic hitman." it'll throw you a new perspective and confound you.

i'm reminded of rush limbaugh, who railed for years against those on welfare until it was revealed that he spent a significant period of time on it himself. lots of social programs have shown their worth when given an objective look, i know of several teen outreach programs that through the years, despite rising population and overcrowding, resulted at least in part in a decline in teen crime rates, etc. and of course, there will always be some douche-bag leaches of the system...

I think welfare is a necessary and basically a good thing. However, the spirit in which it was started was to be a temporary solution for those people who might have been down on their luck for a period of time. NOT to live on generation after generation. If you saw the movie "Cinderella Man", about James J. Braddock. He needed assistance for a time, but when he was back on his feet, he gave every penny back. THAT'S what it's all about. Helping someone in times of need, not sucking off the government, (us), forever. BB

[Shibby]

Originally Posted by bonebreaker

I think welfare is a necessary and basically a good thing. However, the spirit in which it was started was to be a temporary solution for those people who might have been down on their luck for a period of time. NOT to live on generation after generation. If you saw the movie "Cinderella Man", about James J. Braddock. He needed assistance for a time, but when he was back on his feet, he gave every penny back. THAT'S what it's all about. Helping someone in times of need, not sucking off the government, (us), forever. BB

and I will tell you from my expierence, it's much harder to get that little help when needed, because of those who depend on it. I have trouble getting help when I have needed it because I don't seem as needy as those living off of it. What's also frustrating about it is that I have worked for 10 years getting taxed, and now that I need a little help because of starting my family, I get shafted.

[bonebreaker]

Originally Posted by Shibby

and I will tell you from my expierence, it's much harder to get that little help when needed, because of those who depend on it. I have trouble getting help when I have needed it because I don't seem as needy as those living off of it. What's also frustrating about it is that I have worked for 10 years getting taxed, and now that I need a little help because of starting my family, I get shafted.

And THAT, my friend, is what pisses me off the most. As you say, when someone not already on the dole needs help, it's nearly impossible to get. Yeah, you can't even get a taste of your own friggin money, while many, many others never have paid a cent in taxes, and yet are living pretty well. What a bunch of crap!!! BB

[hlcn8]

Originally Posted by bonebreaker

I think welfare is a necessary and basically a good thing. However, the spirit in which it was started was to be a temporary solution for those people who might have been down on their luck for a period of time. NOT to live on generation after generation. If you saw the movie "Cinderella Man", about James J. Braddock. He needed assistance for a time, but when he was back on his feet, he gave every penny back. THAT'S what it's all about. Helping someone in times of need, not sucking off the government, (us), forever. BB

Yup, i'd love to see some sort of comparison in total dollars... of course the powers that be would never allow it, but it'd be interesting to compare pork-barrel projects and social welfare to eachother.

I also had a friend who served in the air force for 25 years, worked for 10 years, was laid off, and had to fight tooth and nail after serving his country and paying his taxes to get the help he needed. when he finally got it he only ended up using it for a few months when he was able to get on his feet.