Bringing the troops home - a friendly discussion. - SuperiorMuscle.com

***THE BOUNCER*** · #1 07-14-07, 08:24 AM

Lets keep this a nice friendly discussion. If it gets out of hand I will delete the thread.

Many of you know more on the subject then me so I thought I would start this thread to see if my views are correct or if I am missing something.

It is my opinion that this war cannot end well for us. It seems to get worse every month and more of our boys are dieing. What I don't understand is when the president or someone says, "if we pull them out now it will be a disaster". Can someone explain this to me? Isn't it already a disaster? How much worse can that country get? I feel like nothing more is going to be accomplished over there so why not get our boys out before more of them die?

Maybe I am wrong, that is why I started this thread, to ask.

Gods Son · #2 07-14-07, 08:28 AM

First let me say I believe in Supporting the president no matter what political party he is from.This Iraq thing is a bunch of shit.IMO it was a smoke screen to get our minds off of 9/11.Nothing has been done about 9/11.Al Queda is stronger now than they were before 9/10.I cant belive im saying this but Im for Hillary in November.

***THE BOUNCER*** · #3 07-14-07, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gods Son

I cant belive im saying this but Im for Hillary in November.

I am pretty much for anyone. The day bush is gone from office is a good day for the country. The way the world views this country with bush as president is very scary.

Bush IMO is probably a good guy. He seems to be a real person. He just is not president material.

Stonecold54 · #4 07-14-07, 08:39 AM

its time to bring them home. period. dying for nothing is terrible. I agree bouncer, it can't get any worse for us. we get shot and get nothing in return. its been what 6 years!!!! I understand that the GOVT knows more about the threats than they ever tell us but I don't think that is a connection to Iraq. I think we can pull out and still be effective in subduing foreign threats. we just need to make that clear when we do pull out. we will no longer occupy you but if we have intel from iraq or surrounding countries we will bomb you.

Gods Son · #5 07-14-07, 08:58 AM

stonecold is right OUR air force is superior to all.we should just bomb and put away the rifles.No need for fire fights in the 21 century

NYCmitch25 · #6 07-14-07, 09:03 AM

I personally don't see it as for or against the war. I respect and support the troops in the field no matter the reason they were sent.

Unfortunately, the US will need to maintain a presence for years to come. It would awsome if they could come home...but i dont think its right. the descision for war was wrong but we are were we are no turning back now.

It should happen at the next election with a change in political parties . The democrats will pull the troops. With support for the war and public opinion so low it SHOULD be a slam dunk easy victory for Democrates but I they probably will fuk it up. Barrac Obama and Hilary Clinton as front runners doesnt look good. Black guy and a white wommen - they got get an old white guy if they want to win LOL

***THE BOUNCER*** · #7 07-14-07, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCmitch25

the descision for war was wrong but we are were we are no turning back now.

i dont understand that way of thinking though. what do you mean no turning back now? its not getting any better. should we just stay until we dont have any troops left?

**Shibby** · #8 07-14-07, 10:33 AM

I supported the war at first because I didn't understand what was really going on. I voted for Bush the second term because I didn't want all the soldiers that have past to have died in vain. I feel it was a big mistake for him to return to office. Along with the war I am so tired of people constantly talking about stuff and NOTHING getting done. I am ready for our troops to come home. Maybe some people will die because of terrorism in the US and I understand that citizens shouldn't be put in that situation. But the terrorist target is the civilians. Killing soldiers is done out of opportunity not planned. So I don't see the difference of being there or here. If everyone is here we can better protect OUR citizens who will most all appreciate it.

***THE BOUNCER*** · #9 07-14-07, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shibby

I supported the war at first because I didn't understand what was really going on. I voted for Bush the second term because I didn't want all the soldiers that have past to have died in vain. I feel it was a big mistake for him to return to office. Along with the war I am so tired of people constantly talking about stuff and NOTHING getting done. I am ready for our troops to come home. Maybe some people will die because of terrorism in the US and I understand that citizens shouldn't be put in that situation. But the terrorist target is the civilians. Killing soldiers is done out of opportunity not planned. So I don't see the difference of being there or here. If everyone is here we can better protect OUR citizens who will most all appreciate it.

exactly my thoughts.

NewbieChris · #10 07-14-07, 11:05 AM

It has been my understanding that the thought process behind not pulling out is that it is a sign of weakness. Showing that 'perceived' weakness would only serve to aide Al Queda in believing it has succeeded and 'embolden' them to work harder to get up back into the same position again. I personally believe this is half true, pulling out of Iraq would be like retreating from a fight. Instantly the world would question our military strength. That is the thought process as I understand it. That all being said, we can't pull out of Iraq. Right now, if we did it would fall under the control of Al Queda, IMO. It would be just like Afghanistan. A country that is run by terrorists.

Ultimately the problem with the "War on Terror" and the "War in Iraq" is that a conventional 'war' on terror cannot be won. For one of two reasons. America gets tired of seeing it troops die, just like in Vietnam and we are not willing to do what is necessary to really do damage to a terrorist cell. Which is bombing the shit out of them. However, we can't do that politically or the world would freak the fuck out on us.

As far as protecting ourselves here in America, its not as simple as we would like to think it is. I think if we decided to do that we could become a military police state.

Mr incredible · #11 07-14-07, 01:38 PM

VIETNAM

There are plenty troops there from the UK also and I want to see them home and safe. The problem is that if you pull out without leaving a capable and politically stable regime in place then those of the Iraqi people that have supported the alied forces would be vunerable to attack with no help.

When US troops pulled out of Vietnam, the tribal people and nationals got slaughtered, thats one of the main phsycological torments of the troops that served in Vietnam that still haunts them to this day. I met quite a few on my travels in Vietnam, plenty of vets go back there as a sort of therapy to see how the place has moved on.

At the end of that war many of the eldest sons of each family were given Canadian and US citizenship to escape certain death.

Thats the problem with pulling out now and I'm afraid to say that there is no point in scaling down either, theres no point having a presence there thats not capable in numbers. The truth is when you listen to the experts (not the politicians), the Iraqi people are not ready to control their own country and stave of rogue political and terrorist factions. If you pull out now it will be another allied screw up, where (albeit for the right reasons) they have gone in taken power, messed with the system and left all the indigenous people in terror.

Nobody wants that and it may take many years yet to do the job right and yes more allied lives will be lost

Mr incredible · #12 07-14-07, 01:40 PM

Sorry just seen my first sentance and it looks odd. I meant to say that I want to see all the alied troops come home safe, I suppose I'm just saying that I have a stake in this also, being from the UK.

trip · #13 07-14-07, 02:21 PM

oh mannnnnnnnnnnhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, lol

i don't have time right now bman, yet, i'll answer later on

in simple terms, right now the main decisons is

do we stay for 20 years, yup, yup, yup, it typically takes 20 years for major changes too take place, ie, what happens is u get a change in generations

as example, all the heads of alquidia were in there 20's in 1980 when the whole shit storm started, i'll explain this later

or get out now, and cross ur fingers

too give u something too think on

go back thru history and see what happened too countries who lost?

what happened to them

fwiw, i think the whole thing is riduculous, terrorists are like two year old children, too even have elevated a two year old too the level of being a priortity in a countries, persons life, is just very wrong thinking

also, terrorism is like ladies of the evening, been around since the beginning of time

**Shibby** · #14 07-14-07, 03:11 PM

All this makes me think of this movie http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0425743/

I saw it on HBO a couple weeks ago. Although the movie isn't one of the greatest made, you are left with the feeling of everything there are doing is pointless. People complain about there not being a plot line and all that, but I think that was the point of the movie. Just to show a day in Iraq and how it seems endless... and for what?

wnabeabeast · #15 07-14-07, 05:19 PM

I think at this point troops shoud come home This war can not be won by the way US is fighting. The problem is US is trying to have a fair war agains whole bunch of cowards and soldiers are dying not while they are fighting but while they are walking around and patroling the streets. I don't know the stats but how many of the soldiers died while they were in actuall battle and how many of them died or injured because some coward put a bomb in a trash can and it exploded while they were walking by?
These terorists are recuruting(sp) women, kids or anyone is ready to put a bomb on their chest and walk in to some sunday market and blow themselfs up with whole bunch of people, so again when you fight against an invisible enemy you can not win a war these people are smiling on our soldiers faces and taking a candy bar from them and acting friendly so they can walk by and plant that bomb in to some hidden corner.
I know this is gonna sound barbaric but...hey! I am from Turkey and we do things different. I say go for a total clean up. If there is a city that you know it's known for terorist hideout just get the troops together go in from one side of the city and come out from the other side. Total sweep. And when they are done with it they can tell them that they have no problem with coming back and doing this again if they continue to harbor terorists. I know most people will say that is not the solution, but belive me it is. We are not talking about rational people here. they don't care about politics or well being or the people in that country. if they did they wouldn't blow up a sunday market or a bus full of people.
So I say if you gonna keep the soldiers there do it right make sure every city is clean or get them out. They don't need to die or lose limbs by a road side bomb while they are walking around.

NYCmitch25 · #16 07-14-07, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

i dont understand that way of thinking though. what do you mean no turning back now? its not getting any better. should we just stay until we dont have any troops left?

I think we have way too much invested to walk away now. The media (vastly liberal/democratic) will portray that we are losing the war and everythings a disaster. i dont believe things are as bad as they seem. from what i can tell we are making progress. Its just not at the pace most would like to see. The cost of withdrawal is worse in my eyes.

***THE BOUNCER*** · #17 07-14-07, 08:06 PM

related news.

Iraqi prime minister says U.S. troops can leave anytime they want.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/....ap/index.html

Mr incredible · #18 07-15-07, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

related news.

Iraqi prime minister says U.S. troops can leave anytime they want.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/....ap/index.html

I think that is a lot of pride and spin right there, I don't think from listening to a range of media that we are able to leave iraq in a stable, self sufficient and sustainable controlled state. Not yet.

We are training up their people and like someone else said, it may be that if matters improve in a year or two we could scale down a bit but it will take a generation to bring real change.

NYCmitch25 · #19 07-15-07, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

related news.

Iraqi prime minister says U.S. troops can leave anytime they want.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/....ap/index.html

if thats not a slap in the face... he was just crying how we may leave, fuk em its time to leave

NewbieChris · #20 07-15-07, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

related news.

Iraqi prime minister says U.S. troops can leave anytime they want.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/....ap/index.html

Its all political. Iraq doesn't want to be seen as weak.

hitmansb · #21 07-15-07, 11:35 PM

I don't think 'bring them home' is in the playbook just yet, given what's going on with Iran. I think they're just as likely to make a right and march on into Iran next as they are to come home.

trip · #22 07-16-07, 10:46 AM

Part One:

WAR ON TERROR = WAR ON SPAMMERS

think about that one, a terroist, is just a human spammer

if u have a country with 25 million pc's how would u stop the spamming?

note: the 25 million pc's have access on there borders to new pc's and new servers

good luck, guys