Science magazine declares ethanol worse for the Earth than fossil fuels

[THE BOUNCER]

Jon Markman at MSN Money doesn't hold back when he says "Corn-based ethanol production is sure to go down as one of the greatest mistakes ever in U.S. energy policy." It's even more provoking when he writes "replacing fossil fuels with corn-based ethanol would double greenhouse gas emissions over the next three decades. The studies show that switchgrass, an alternative to ethanol that's more weed than plant, would boost emissions by 50%."

Full Story: Science magazine declares ethanol worse for the Earth than fossil fuels - Autoblog

[Shibby]

That's similar to what one of my wifes teachers was talking about with eating organic foods. There were studies being done that people who eat organic foods are getting a more pure food but are contributing more to pollution. That because the organic foods come from fewer places there is a lot more shipping of it.

[NewbieChris]

That is a very extreme case. I don't have my book with me at school, but the guy is right. However, the idea that it would take 400 years to even out is extreme. Besides everyone knows the reason we are focusing on Corn ethanol is because of the Iowa caucus, not economics and environmentalism. There is an alternative to corn ethanol, that would not be as harmful, but it would demand trade with...I think Venezuela. It is the grass substitute for corn ethanol, but because they have been growing it for so long the CO2 foot print is negated and thus you only get the benefits. However, that does not account for the increased demand. From the calculations I did though, I remember it having negative externalities for about 100 years.

However, then you have to account for transportation costs, etc.

The article is far too simple to draw any conclusions, don't put too much weight on its statements.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by NewbieChris

Besides everyone knows the reason we are focusing on Corn ethanol is because of the Iowa caucus, not economics and environmentalism.

Yea, everyone knows that! lmao. i dont even know what a Caucus is you fucken nerd.

[Shibby]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

Yea, everyone knows that! lmao. i dont even know what a Caucus is you fucken nerd.

ha, the way it sounds to me is it's like lobbyist.

[NewbieChris]

I had a nice little thingy typed up, but I forgot to post it and loaded a different screen. The Iowa Caucus is known as the first step to the presidential nomination. For that reason they have a lot of political influence.

Iowa caucuses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Shibby

ha, the way it sounds to me is it's like lobbyist.

yea, i dont know what that means either.

[NYCmitch25]

Fuck Iowa and its caucuses

Watching these two shows on History Channel right now
"Mega Disasters: Apycoloyptic oil" and "Crude"

Its very disturbing the a position we have put ourselves in with oil.

[NewbieChris]

Originally Posted by NYCmitch25

Fuck Iowa and its caucuses

Watching these two shows on History Channel right now
"Mega Disasters: Apycoloyptic oil" and "Crude"

Its very disturbing the a position we have put ourselves in with oil.

Oo, thanks. I didn't even know those were on. Should be interesting.

------

My only comment about our oil dilemma is that without oil we would never have reached a level of production we have.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by NYCmitch25

Fuck Iowa and its caucuses

Watching these two shows on History Channel right now
"Mega Disasters: Apycoloyptic oil" and "Crude"

Its very disturbing the a position we have put ourselves in with oil.

yea, seen both of those. crude was especially scary. really shows just how much the way we live is built on the foundation of oil.

[Nekrawulf]

I dont understand this. Grains are one of the worst things for soil... they rob the soil of much needed nutrients. So what do we put in the soil to compensate for this.... oil based fertilizers.

its a vicious cycle

[NewbieChris]

Wow, thanks for the sober depressing story about how life is gonna suck in 100 years. lol. Crude was extremely interesting, I never knew it took so much to create oil. I was never taught about the stagnation of the ocean, etc. I wish I could see statistics and some of the models they did to predict things like the end of oil reserves, etc. Thats the stuff I can understand. The biology and chemistry behind it is cool, but usually is too much for me. Anyone have any good books in mind about this subject?

[Timber]

The answerer to fuel & environmental problems were solved 50 years ago and in some cases hundreds of years ago. Electric cars are old technology and it works very well. But if your charging your car from a petroleum power source it doesn't really matter. It is all about infrastructure. In order for changes to take place in this world you must redesign the infrastructure. as well as the way we conduct are lives. Solar farms, Wind farms, Hydro electric power. These are all available and unused to there potential. Every property owner can become part of the solar grid. Wind farms should sit along every coast line and hillside. People say they are unattractive well Boo Hoo. as if an oil field is attractive. Nuclear power is an environmentally friendly power source when operated properly. Organic food is also very easy. You can grow food in a flower pot on a deck or rooftop. The answer to these problems were solved along time ago. the real problem is not what to do, it is doing it. Every person has to do it 1 person at a time. Every solar panel you install to heat your pool, power your yard lamps to your home & charge your electric car sends a message to the desire for change. It is the little things we all do that force change. If all you can do is change the bulbs in you home then that is your part. If you can put panels on the roof of your home or business then you have done a part. If you're just going to piss and moan and wait for someone else to fix it for you then you are the problem. We all blame government and big oil, the automotive industry. The real problem is you and me because these establishments will never change if were continue to support them. Change in this world is done 1 person at a time not by government and corporation. everyone has a part to play

[NewbieChris]

The cadmium used in car batteries is more C02 intensive to mine than just about anything. Not to mention the waste it causes when trying to dispose of such a chemical.

[hitmansb]

Ethanol isn't about being better for the earth...it's about finally being able to tell Iranians/Arabs/Venezuela to fuck off, take their oil, and shove it. You'd be able to get all the oil necessary from Canada if you cut your consumption by whatever necessary percentage....no more dealing with lunatics.

[hitmansb]

Originally Posted by Timber

The answerer to fuel & environmental problems were solved 50 years ago and in some cases hundreds of years ago. Electric cars are old technology and it works very well. But if your charging your car from a petroleum power source it doesn't really matter. It is all about infrastructure. In order for changes to take place in this world you must redesign the infrastructure. as well as the way we conduct are lives. Solar farms, Wind farms, Hydro electric power. These are all available and unused to there potential. Every property owner can become part of the solar grid. Wind farms should sit along every coast line and hillside. People say they are unattractive well Boo Hoo. as if an oil field is attractive. Nuclear power is an environmentally friendly power source when operated properly. Organic food is also very easy. You can grow food in a flower pot on a deck or rooftop. The answer to these problems were solved along time ago. the real problem is not what to do, it is doing it. Every person has to do it 1 person at a time. Every solar panel you install to heat your pool, power your yard lamps to your home & charge your electric car sends a message to the desire for change. It is the little things we all do that force change. If all you can do is change the bulbs in you home then that is your part. If you can put panels on the roof of your home or business then you have done a part. If you're just going to piss and moan and wait for someone else to fix it for you then you are the problem. We all blame government and big oil, the automotive industry. The real problem is you and me because these establishments will never change if were continue to support them. Change in this world is done 1 person at a time not by government and corporation. everyone has a part to play

I think government has to do their part to force change....

for example, legislate it that any new home or office building being built in an area with significant # of sunny days in a year MUST have solar panels. Sometimes it's easier to force people to do the right thing: if you don't want to shell out for the solar panels...you don't get a permit to build. Also make super high-efficiency A/C units and heating units a requirement on new homes and office buildings. Set high standards for insulation too.

In a profit-driven world, I think that's the only way to make sure these changes start to happen.

[NewbieChris]

Originally Posted by hitmansb

I think government has to do their part to force change....

for example, legislate it that any new home or office building being built in an area with significant # of sunny days in a year MUST have solar panels. Sometimes it's easier to force people to do the right thing: if you don't want to shell out for the solar panels...you don't get a permit to build. Also make super high-efficiency A/C units and heating units a requirement on new homes and office buildings. Set high standards for insulation too.

In a profit-driven world, I think that's the only way to make sure these changes start to happen.

The things you mentioned do nothing to actually help profit, infact they do the opposite in a free market system. You create a gap between supply and demand and therefore driving up cost for the consumer, hence less demand. A poor idea at best in the current economic climate. Timber is right. As the social benefits of cleaner technologies come along, these devices will become cheaper and increase demand. You can't do that when companies have officials of their board sitting in the VP seat. Its not that our high ranking officials are unhappy with the UAE and their oil companies. That has little to do with the problem, and arguably is much different. The Bushes are heavily invested in some UAE oil companies.

The radicals, such as Al-Qaeda, are more pissed off about Israel and holy lands than anything else. Dubaie and the UAE care more about our need for oil and the enormous amount of money that is making them than some silly pieve of land.

[hitmansb]

Originally Posted by NewbieChris

The things you mentioned do nothing to actually help profit.

You misunderstood me bro...I was saying that developers would rather churn out houses as-is, and people would rather (in some cases) not spend the extra for the solar panels and high-efficiency heating/cooling/water tanks....so that's why you have to force them. The idea is that a little dip in profit can't outweigh the need to be more energy efficient, and to integrate some clean energy generation in every new building via solar panels.

[NYCmitch25]

Originally Posted by hitmansb

I think government has to do their part to force change....

for example, legislate it that any new home or office building being built in an area with significant # of sunny days in a year MUST have solar panels. Sometimes it's easier to force people to do the right thing: if you don't want to shell out for the solar panels...you don't get a permit to build. Also make super high-efficiency A/C units and heating units a requirement on new homes and office buildings. Set high standards for insulation too.

In a profit-driven world, I think that's the only way to make sure these changes start to happen.

I absolutely agree

[goliath]

ethanol is a political pursuit. the science and economics behind it make absolutely no sense whatsoever.

would would have thought...politics and science can be misaligned!? you're kidding!

[Control]

Humans are doomed. There are way more people who don't care about anything but eating, shitting and fucking than there are people who care about the Earth. Yay, a few people buy hybrid cars, meanwhile rednecks are driving V-8 engines in circles at 200+ mph for 5oo miles in front of thousands of other rednecks who drove v-8 pickups and SUVs in heavy traffic to come watch. It's a lost cause.