SuperiorMuscle.com

Welcome to the SuperiorMuscle.com - Bodybuilding Forums.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.



Go Back   SuperiorMuscle.com - Bodybuilding Forums > Superior Discussion Section > General Chat

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 03-28-08, 03:29 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,274
Shibby is just really niceShibby is just really niceShibby is just really niceShibby is just really nice
The Space Elevator Comes Closer to Reality

This is actually a story from 2002, but I just heard about the theory on Modern Marvels.

ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO -- Make way for the ultimate high-rise project: the space elevator. Long viewed as science fiction "imagineering", researchers are gathering momentum in their pursuit to propel this uplifting concept into actuality.

Still, the mental picture needed to grasp the elevator to space idea…well, you can't be weak of mind.

Forget the roar of rocketry and those bone jarring liftoffs, the elevator would be a smooth 62,000-mile (100,000-kilometer) ride up a long cable. Payloads can shimmy up the Earth-to-space cable, experiencing no large launch forces, slowly climbing from one atmosphere to a vacuum.

Earth orbit, the Moon, Mars, Venus, the asteroids and beyond - they are routinely accessible via the space elevator. And for all its promise and grandeur, this mega-project is made practical by the tiniest of technologies - carbon nanotubes.

Seen as an engineering undertaking for the opening decades of the 21st century, the space elevator proposal was highlighted here during the 2002 Space and Robotics Conferences, held March 17-21, and sponsored by the Aerospace Division of the American Society of Civil Engineers.

Thought experiment

Science fiction writers have been deploying space elevators for years.

Space visionary, Arthur Clarke, centered his novel of the late 1970s, The Fountains of Paradise, on the notion. Also, among other writers, Kim Stanley-Robinson's Red Mars noted the soaring splendor of an elevator to space. Furthermore, the scheme has bounced around technical journals for decades. Some call it a "thought experiment", but others point out that space exploration B.C. -- "Before Cable" -- will pale contrasted to what's possible within ten to fifteen years.

"Even though the challenges to bring the space elevator to reality are substantial, there are no physical or economic reasons why it can't be built in our lifetime." That's the matter-of-fact feeling of physicist, Bradley Edwards of Eureka Scientific in Berkeley, California, but carrying out heavy lifting design work in Seattle, Washington.

Edwards told SPACE.com that he's been wrapped up in space elevator work for some three years, supported by grants from NASA's Institute for Advanced Concepts (NIAC) program. "I'm convinced that the space elevator is practical and doable. In 12 years, we could be launching tons of payload every three days, at just a little over a couple hundred dollars a pound," he said.

"In 15 years we could have a dozen cables running full steam putting 50 tons in space every day for even less, including upper middle class individuals wanting a joyride into space. Now I just need the $5 billion, Edwards added.

And so it grows

For a space elevator to function, a cable with one end attached to the Earth's surface stretches upwards, reaching beyond geosynchronous orbit, at 21,700 miles (35,000-kilometer altitude). After that, simple physics takes charge.

The competing forces of gravity at the lower end and outward centripetal acceleration at the farther end keep the cable under tension. The cable remains stationary over a single position on Earth. This cable, once in position, can be scaled from Earth by mechanical means, right into Earth orbit. An object released at the cable's far end would have sufficient energy to escape from the gravity tug of our home planet and travel to neighboring the moon or to more distant interplanetary targets.

Putting physics aside the toughest challenge has been finding a super-strong cable material. "That's what has kept this idea in science fiction for 40 years," Edwards said. But the right stuff in terms of cable material is no longer thought of as "unobtainium", he said.

The answer is carbon-nanotube-composite ribbon. Small fibers of the material are set down side-by-side, then interconnected to form a growing ribbon.

Stronger than steel

The hurdle to date, Edwards said, has been the commercial fabrication of carbon nanotubes. Both U.S. and Japanese firms, among others, are ramping up production of carbon nanotubes, with tons of this now exotic matter soon to be available. "That quantity of material is going to be around well before five years time. It's not going to take long," he said.

Given the far stronger-than-steel ribbon of carbon nanotubes, a space elevator could be up within a decade. "There's no real serious stumbling block to this," Edwards explained.

"The making of carbon nanotubes is moving very quick," said Hayam Benaroya, a professor in the Department of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering at Rutgers in Piscataway, New Jersey. "We're moving from the scientific stage of just developing them to actual commercial entities producing them in ton-like quantities," he said.

"Perhaps within our lifetimes we might actually see real designs of skyhooks and space tethers, these kinds of things. They may be feasible at reasonable cost," Benaroya said.

Reel world high-wire act

Getting the first space elevator off the ground, factually, would use two space shuttle flights. Twenty tons of cable and reel would be kicked up to geosynchronous altitude by an upper stage motor. The cable is then snaked to Earth and attached to an ocean-based anchor station, situated within the equatorial Pacific. That platform would be similar to the structure used for the Sea Launch expendable rocket program.

Once secure, a platform-based free-electron laser system is used to beam energy to photocell-laden "climbers". These are automated devices that ride the initial ribbon skyward. Each climber adds more and more ribbon to the first, thereby increasing the cable's overall strength. Some two-and-a-half years later, and using nearly 300 climbers, a first space elevator capable of supporting over 20-tons (20,000-kilograms) is ready for service.

"If budget estimates are correct, we could do it for under $10 billion. The first cable could launch multi-ton payloads every 3 days. Cargo hoisted by laser-powered climbers, be it fragile payloads such as radio dishes, complex planetary probes, solar power satellites, or human-carrying modules could be dropped off in geosynchronous orbit in a week's travel time," Edwards said.

Using a laser beam to boost the climbers into space is doable, said Harold Bennett, president of Bennett Optical Research, Inc. of Ridgecrest, California. "If you do it right, you can take out 96 percent of the effect of the atmosphere on the laser beam through adaptive optics," he said. The strength of the pulsed laser beam is less than the intensity of the Sun, so birds, airplanes, or human eyes wouldn't be affected, he said.

Return on investment

Eric Westling, a Houston, Texas-based consultant on the space elevator, is bullish on the concept. Spending billions on a space elevator is small change for a big purpose.

"Other than the invention of some Buck Rogers engine, the space elevator is the only system for accessing space that is subject to the economics of scale. It's a true return on investment enterprise. The cost of space travel has to become an incidental part of the overall cost of what we're trying to get done," Westling said.

"It will change the world economy. It's worth what ever it costs to put it up," Westling said. An initial elevator, he added, is sure to give birth to even larger systems, capable of handling larger loads of up and down traffic.

"I'm looking at a business plan that shows some investor could triple his or her money in about 6 years, and the initial investment could be as low as $5 billion," Edwards said.

Building the impossible

The elevator to space concept does entail aggressive research work. As example, Edwards said he is looking into the environmental impacts stemming from elevator operations. Being studied too is impact of lightning, wind and clouds on an Earth-to-space cable system. Space elevators for use on other worlds, like Mars and the Moon are receiving attention as well.

One thing to keep in mind. Building the impossible is done here on Earth routinely, Edwards said.

Take for instance the $13.5 billion Millennium Tower envisioned for Hong Kong Harbor. This incredible skyscraper would be 170 stories tall. Elevator traffic within its walls is estimated at 100,000 people per day.

Edwards also points to the Gibraltar Bridge project. It would span the Straits of Gibraltar, linking Spain and Morocco at a projected cost of $20 billion. The bridge would use towers, twice as high as the world's tallest skyscraper. Roughly 1,000,000 miles (1,600,000 kilometers) of wire cables would be utilized in the project.

"I think those projects are a lot harder than what I'm talking about," Edwards said.
__________________


Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 03-28-08, 03:36 PM
blm's Avatar
blm blm is online now
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Here
Posts: 5,408
blm is just really niceblm is just really niceblm is just really niceblm is just really niceblm is just really nice
I remember reading about this a few times. It's an incredible endevour!
__________________
I have screamed until my veins collapsed
I've waited as my time's elapsed
Now, All I do is live with so much fate
I've wished for this, I've bitched at that
I've left behind this little fact:

You cannot kill what you did not create

Superior Muscle Does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information shared is for learning purposes only.

The Administrators, and Moderators of this site are not liable for any injury caused by the misuse of any chemical used for bodybuilding purposes.

1) DO NOT POST ASKING FOR A SOURCE!!!!

2)If you are a source, dont bother posting for business, it is clearly against the board's policy and you will be banned.

3)DO NOT PM OR EMAIL A MOD ABOUT A SOURCE!


Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-28-08, 03:37 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,837
THE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond repute
so how much progress has been made since 2002?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-28-08, 03:49 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,274
Shibby is just really niceShibby is just really niceShibby is just really niceShibby is just really nice
Well on modern marvels they were talking about they have now made the chain of carbon to build a cable 10x stronger than steel and I don' know how much lighter. It sounded like now they need to find a way to manufacture the cable and get it into space.
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-28-08, 04:18 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,837
THE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibby View Post
Well on modern marvels they were talking about they have now made the chain of carbon to build a cable 10x stronger than steel and I don' know how much lighter. It sounded like now they need to find a way to manufacture the cable and get it into space.
ahh yes, i have seen that. the carbon chain was in a different episode also. i think the actual carbon episode. shit is amazing.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-28-08, 04:24 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,274
Shibby is just really niceShibby is just really niceShibby is just really niceShibby is just really nice
That's the episode I was watching "Carbon"
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-28-08, 04:26 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,837
THE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond repute
oh, i thought you were watching a modern marvels on the space elevator.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-28-08, 04:27 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,837
THE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond reputeTHE BOUNCER has a reputation beyond repute
p.s. check the anabolic section. i posted the next date of the testosterone factor show.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-28-08, 04:38 PM
Superior Pro
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Penn State
Posts: 1,684
NewbieChris is a jewel in the roughNewbieChris is a jewel in the roughNewbieChris is a jewel in the rough
If we ended our occupation of Iraq we could afford several hundred thousands of these is what it sounds like. I wonder which is a more fiscally responsible way to spend our money? Oh, wait, the Republicans don't care about fiscal policy anymore...just God.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:16 PM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com and Modified by Schucz

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
Superiormuscle.com Does not promote the use of anabolic steroids without a doctor's prescription. The information shared is for learning purposes only. The Administrators, and Moderators of this site are not liable for any injury caused by the misuse of any chemical used for bodybuilding purposes.