Hack-a-Shaq - SuperiorMuscle.com

Scrumhalf · #1 05-26-04, 01:10 AM

Watching Shaq play, I am oscillating between marveling at his power and his court sense/passing abilities, and utter frustration at his free throw shootnig.

Flip Saunders gave the green light for hack-a-Shaq tonight and it worked pretty well - just not good enough.

Shaq is such an unbelievable player - it boggles the mind how much better he can be if he could only shoot his free throws. He could have been a career 40 ppg guy.

I am a 80+% free throw shooter and that is without any coaching or anything - I don't know why he can't do it when he can pay anyone to work with him on this.

There has to be someone he can hire - who is that guy who has the consecutive free throw shooting Guiness record? - and pay them a couple of hundred grand to make him a good free throw shooter. Free throw shootng is such an learned skill (unlike court vision, etc.).

It is frustrating to see someone who could have been a basketball immortal, yet has settled for something less because he does not want it bad enough.

r_deese · #2 05-26-04, 09:11 AM

I'm totally with you. Shaq just can't handle free throws. He would honestly be a solid 35-40ppg guy if he could shoot them. The Lakers played well last night, owning KG and keeping everyone but Wally from playing their game. I do believe, though, if Kobe wouldn't have come alive in the 2nd half, the game would have been much more close than it really seemed.

meat12 · #3 05-26-04, 09:15 AM

He's got a full sized basketball court in his house he really should atleast be an 80 % shooter. I think it's pure laziness

checkoutmyrapp · #4 05-26-04, 09:48 AM

I think that if you are 7' 1 and you 280lbs and there is noone even close to you size you can pretty much do what ever you want. He is allowed to get away with anything he wants, he drops his shoulder and practicly runs people over, and from what I heard the minute you drop your shoulder it should be an automatic foul. He uses his muscle do his advantage witch is not wrong but if they called him on even 1/8 of the fouls that he commits he would not be in the game past the first quarter.

**Shibby** · #5 05-26-04, 10:02 AM

I'm anti-shaq. I pretty much think he sucks as a player. Maybe in comparison from center vs center he does dominate, but you could pretty much put anyone with his size and teach them a little ball and could do th same thing. My point is he can't shoot for shit. He can dump and dunk the ball into the net. In basketball you shoot a ball into a net and he has no shot.

Tinfish · #6 05-26-04, 10:06 AM

I agree in concept, but will disagree with several peoples comments.

1st of all, He did have someone help him with his freethrows. In 2000, when the indiana pacers used the hack a shaq during the finals. He had some guru at all his games watching him. Paid him 50k.

2nd of all, just because you can hit 80% without practice doesnt relate at all to his freethrow %. I can walk outside right now and run a sub 45 minute 10k, that doesnt mean that you should be able to do it with practice.

Tinfish · #7 05-26-04, 10:07 AM

Try this. Go do a big chest and shoulder workout, run 2 miles, let your wife beat, slap and scratch you for 10 minutes, then grab a softball or mini basketball and try to throw it in a paint bucket that is 6 feet away. Do it 100 times. Tell me how many you make.

Scrumhalf · #8 05-26-04, 10:26 AM

Tinfish, I didn't say I can hit 80% without practice.

I just said that I am ordinary Joe who didn't play college ball or anything like that. I think I am an above average recreational player and on any given day, I can step up to the line (game situation or just shooting in my driveway) and hit 16 of 20 free throws, no problem. I have done this countless times.

Free throw shooting is all about mechanics - about doing the same thing exactly the same way every time to step to the line. That is why you see the really great free throw shooters like for exaple Jeff Hornacek, do *exactly* the same thing every time at the line.

I agree that a 7 footer who can bench press 300+ pounds may have a different visual angle to the basket and a different feel for the basketball in his hands compared to me. However, there are certain basics to free throw shooting that are the same for everyone.

First, you have to square up to the basket. You should bend from the knees. You should have one hand on the back of the basketball and one hand on the side but barely putting any pressure on it. You should put backspin on the ball. Most importantly, you should only go vetically up from your bent knee position, not lunge forward across the free throw line as you release. Lastly, you should aim for the back of the rim.

If I were Shaq, I would do the following: Spend an offseason working with a free throw expert mastering the fundamentals. I would hire 2 guys to videotape every freethrow I make in every game from 2 angles - from behind me, and from the side. After eery game, I would review the tape and determine which part of the basic mechanics went awry and work on that in the practice/shootaround before the next game. If possible, I would have the free throw expert travel with me on road trips so that he can critically analyze the videos and correct mechanics problems as they start cropping up.

This year, Shaq is shooting 58% from the field which is pretty close to his career average. He is also shooting 49% from the line. If he even raised his free throw percentage to 70%, he can add 2-3ppg to his total minimum and probably more. Most importantly, if people realized that he cannot be hacked with impunity, they will be forced to play him honestly more, which will give him more good looks at the basket from close-in.

**Shibby** · #9 05-26-04, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keiser
He is over 300lbs, solid muscle.

Scrumhalf · #10 05-26-04, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keiser

No matter how much he practices, he just can't shoot from the outside, that includes free throws. His hands are too big, he doesn't have the fluid flexibility to follow through correctly, it is just genetics, the way he is built won't allow him to shoot correctly, he has no touch, touch is something that you have naturally, not something you can learn.

Keiser, I agree with you on outside shooting. That involves a lot more innate ability. You just can't decide you are going to beocme a great jumpshooter. You can certainly get *better* but to a great extent, I think outside shooting is an innate skill.

I don't agree with you on free throw shooting however. I thnk this is something that can be learned. The distance to the basket is always the same, the angle is always the same, there is nobody in your face, and you have all the time in the world (at least in the NBA lol) to collect yourself and shoot. I think free throw shooting is certainly something that can be learned and improved upon.

I think not shooting 75-80% is a disgrace. I agree that if you want to shoot 90+%, you have to have the gift, but 75-80% is accessible to anyone who wants it bad enough.

r_deese · #11 05-26-04, 12:03 PM

Can't agree with u scrumhalf... Shaq really has alot of border to overcome in shooting. First he's tall... arch of a shot has alot to do with good shooting and if you're almost looking down on the goal, your arch is likely not good. Second he's fat (partially his own fault), and running up and down a court tires the poor joker out more than the normal person. He carries 350 down the floor, most of them carry scarcely over 200. 3) His hands are enormous. If you've never seen the picture of Shaq palming a basketball between each of his fingers, look it up. Try sprinting for about 30 minutes, then grab a racquetball and try to shoot it into a dixie cup sitting on a tall table just about a 2 feet over ur head. Welcome to Shaq's world.

r_deese · #12 05-26-04, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keiser
To be exact, he is 7'1 340lbs and he isn't fat

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shaqui...eal/index.html

That's a ridiculous thing to say. If you watched the NBA any the last 3 years, you would know that Shaq sat around 300 and came back one year to camp weighing 350... Phil Jackson went nuts and was trying to get him to lose weight and Shaq basically told him he wasn't going to stop eating the way he was b/c he was still the best center in the NBA regardless. If you believe for a second that he's below 20% body fat, you're nuts man. Look at the gut.

r_deese · #13 05-26-04, 02:05 PM

btw, ur link just tells his height and weight.... i don't see a BF % listed... so the link was basically worthless

checkoutmyrapp · #14 05-26-04, 02:11 PM

Well he is a professional atthlete, witch means he should be in shape to be able to run the court like he does, if he can't do it then he should not be so heavy. Basketball is not supposed to be a contact sport it is a finess sport.

r_deese · #15 05-26-04, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by checkoutmyrapp
Well he is a professional atthlete, witch means he should be in shape to be able to run the court like he does, if he can't do it then he should not be so heavy. Basketball is not supposed to be a contact sport it is a finess sport.

He doesn't care if he can be up the court and back as well as the others. There's no need for it. He's still hands down the best center in the NBA. And about the contact sport... have you seen the man push 'em outta the middle, it's a rough non-contact sport - not tennis or golf.

r_deese · #16 05-26-04, 02:29 PM

Sorry if I get anal sometimes making these posts. I had my own sports show on the radio in west tennessee for 2 years and it's in my blood to debate sports w/ people. No offense intended

Scrumhalf · #17 05-26-04, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by r_deese
Can't agree with u scrumhalf... Shaq really has alot of border to overcome in shooting. First he's tall... arch of a shot has alot to do with good shooting and if you're almost looking down on the goal, your arch is likely not good. Second he's fat (partially his own fault), and running up and down a court tires the poor joker out more than the normal person. He carries 350 down the floor, most of them carry scarcely over 200. 3) His hands are enormous. If you've never seen the picture of Shaq palming a basketball between each of his fingers, look it up. Try sprinting for about 30 minutes, then grab a racquetball and try to shoot it into a dixie cup sitting on a tall table just about a 2 feet over ur head. Welcome to Shaq's world.

R_deese, I just don't buy the angle theory....

Here are some stats for other centers who are as tall as Shaq or taller, so they should have the same or more "problems" with angle and arc of their free throw:

Name Height Weight FT %
Shaq 7'1" 340 54
Yao Ming 7'6" 310 81
Sabonis 7'3" 292 79
Robinson 7'1" 235 74
Ewing 7'0" 240 74

I deliberately picked centers who/are peers of O'Neal so that we are not trying to compare eras, etc. (although free throws should translate across eras).

I certainly agree that Shaq is pretty heavy - if that is wearing him out, maybe he should work on that as well. That's the problem I have with Shaq - he is great but he shows no desire to become phenomenal. Comments like I can be 40 lbs overweight because I can still kick everyone else's ass is proof that he is satisfied with being just good enough.

r_deese · #18 05-26-04, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scrumhalf
R_deese, I just don't buy the angle theory....

Here are some stats for other centers who are as tall as Shaq or taller, so they should have the same or more "problems" with angle and arc of their free throw:

Name Height Weight FT %
Shaq 7'1" 340 54
Yao Ming 7'6" 310 81
Sabonis 7'3" 292 79
Robinson 7'1" 235 74
Ewing 7'0" 240 74

I deliberately picked centers who/are peers of O'Neal so that we are not trying to compare eras, etc. (although free throws should translate across eras).

I certainly agree that Shaq is pretty heavy - if that is wearing him out, maybe he should work on that as well. That's the problem I have with Shaq - he is great but he shows no desire to become phenomenal. Comments like I can be 40 lbs overweight because I can still kick everyone else's ass is proof that he is satisfied with being just good enough.

You make good points man, fun debate and I couldn't agree more with the last paragraph. he does have that attitude and it's fine cuz he's still the best.

r_deese · #19 05-26-04, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keiser
So BF% determines how much muscle you have? I guess that Taeshaun Prince is solid muscle because he has a BF% of probably 5%.

Do you know who oliver Miller is? Well that is 300lbs of fat, compare him to Shaq.

Well BF% would let u know how much of that weight was muscle and how much fat. Ex. I am 10.22% BF. I weigh 163. My body composition is 147 lbs of muscle and 16 lbs of fat. that simple

r_deese · #20 05-26-04, 03:53 PM

That would give him a comp around 272 lbm (muscle, bones, organs, water, blood), and 68 lbs or good ol' blubber

Scrumhalf · #21 05-26-04, 04:13 PM

The player I most respect in this respect is Shannon Sharpe, the Broncos TE who just retired this year. Huge, muscular and cut beyond belief. His bodyfat has got to be well below 10%. Plus, a damn good TE, possibly the best at the position.

Plus, he was so totally professional. I read an interview with him where he said that until he retires, his focus is football and nothing else. Everything he does from the moment he wakes up - his daily schedule, what he eats, etc. is revolved on being a better football player. He goes to bed early, no partying all night, etc. Said he has plenty of time for all that when he retires. Love that attidude....

Look for him in the broadcast booth next season.

**Shibby** · #22 05-26-04, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Keiser
So BF% determines how much muscle you have? I guess that Taeshaun Prince is solid muscle because he has a BF% of probably 5%.

Do you know who oliver Miller is? Well that is 300lbs of fat, compare him to Shaq.

Oh I thought your were saying it like he was completely solid.