Lipoderm Ultra Log

[prolangtum]

Im beta testing it for Par, ill keep a log here. This stuff sounds good enough to get rid of that small bit of fat underneath my chest and the lower abs. Im sitting around 6.3 (caliper tested, may be slightly off). Should be in in a week or so.

[prolangtum]

Heres a partial write up from Par Deus:

Ingredients and half-assed write-up, for those interested (in no particular order -- 11g of actives, not counting lecithin, which is a liquid):

Yohimbine:

« A2 antagonism blocks negative feedback of NE, thus increases lipolysis
« Vasodilator, allows for mobilization of FFA's to the blood to be burned
« Blocks negative feedback on dopamine signaling (12417657)



Octopamine:

« Beta 3 agonist, mediates AMPK, which selectively promotes decreased glucose uptake in
adipose (11790328), and increase lipolysis, as well as increased glucose uptake and
glycogen storage in muscle (11016448)
« Metabolized to norepinephrine, which is welcome in the days without ephedrinee


ALCAR:

« Improved mitochondrial bioenergetics, for better fat burning
« Associated with AMPK/beta 3
« Increases leptin sensitivity



Acorbyl Palmitate

« Palmitate strongly potentiates hexosamine flux, a major nutrient signal of leptin expression
(12606504, 11564705)
« Ascorbate will increase scavenging of H2O2 and other oxidation products
« Ascorbate inhibits uptake of glucose via competition for transporter


Green Tea:

„« Inhibits COMT, which breaks down NE
„« Potentiates NE stimulation of lipolysis
„« Inhibits glucose uptake
„« Inhibits FAS, thus TG synthesis




Lecithin:

« A fluid lipid membrane required for activity of Protein Kinase A (Gavriloval 1992)

« cAMP activates Protein Kinase A, which is needed for HSL mediates lipolysis (12727985).

« HSL activity/translocation is generally rate-limiting for lipolysis (9717730, 11160373)

« Emulsion of lipids necessary for activity of HSL on said substrate (7964187) -- lecithin, of
course, is a well known TG emulsifier

« Lecithin increase adrenergic binding to TG's (205536)

« One can't help but speculate that membrane fluidity increase may underly a big part of leptin
sensitivity




Sesamin:

« PPAR-alpha agonist (10X as potent as fish oil), probably PPAR-gamma antag (inhibits
lipogenic genes)
« All kinds of good stuff on CPT-1, ACC, HMG CoA reductase, etc)


Quercetin:

« 4 times as potent as theophylline for PDE inhibition (1384499)
« Potentiates beta receptor responsiveness (7906943)
« Inhibits insulin induced glucose uptake and liogenesis in adipocytes (1324726)




Aminophylline

« adenosine antagonism -- diuresis
« Inhibits "circuit breaker" activity of AMP on cellular metabolism/lipolysis

[prolangtum]

Sesamin for all intents and purposes, sounds bad ass, from the literature i've read.

[prolangtum]

Heres a post by Spook a month or so back about Sesamin:

Introduction:
For the uninitiated sesamin and episesamin are some very interesting compounds that I just keep running across while researching fat loss. What is it? Sesamin is a ligand of sesame seeds. It occurs naturally in small quantities in the seeds and can occur in large quantities in the seeds depending on the seed line. Its concentration is further enhanced in the manufacture of sesame oil. Episesamin is not a naturally occurring compound in the seeds but is an isomer of sesamin that is created during the manufacturing of the oil.

What does it do:
It has a host of benefits. I know that statement at the top was a bold one but the more I read on this compound the more amazing it seems. First it boots hepatic(liver) and muscular mitochondria oxidation of fatty acids as well as boosting the peroxisome fatty acid oxidation. Particularly episesamin is extremely potent boosting these two actions buy 2.1 hold and 5.1 hold in rats. When coupled with a diet rich in omega-3 fats (they seem to work synergistically) boosted them by 12.2 and 20.1 respectively. Now that’s freaking impressive. It does this buy causing the DNA transcription of CPT (carnitine palmitoyl transferase) which is the rate limiting quantity in beta oxidation of fats in skeletal muscle and liver cells. So the gist is you burn more fat plain and simple.

It also protects the liver and kidneys. It prevents fatty liver from chronic ethanol ingestion. It has been used to treat stomach cancer in particular but also seems it may have some other uses as a cancer treatment. Finally it keeps vitamin E levels high either by recycling it or buy preventing its oxidation entirely (no one knows which for sure).

One last great affect of ingestion of these compounds is along with a boost in lipid metabolism it simultaneously lowers lipogenic enzymes in the liver reducing the amount of fats that are esterfied for storage in adipose tissue. Rats fed a diet consisting of 0.4% sesmamin had four times less lipogenic enzymes in there liver cells.

Of and it has very potent effects on blood cholesterol. Along the lines of lipotor.

It does a lot of this buy CPT but it also stimulates PPARalpha to a large degree.

Why am I so excited about this stuff:
First and foremost a doubling of mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation it and of itself is fantastic but a 20 fold increase in peroxisomal beta oxidation is even more impressive as it does not have the same self regulating mechanisms that mitochondrial oxidation does. You burn to much fat and citrate buildup will shut down further fat oxidation but not peroxisomal oxidation. I have always hypothesized (and this is just a guess) that this is one reason uncouplers work so well as one main way of increasing metabolism when the mitochondria are not working is boosting peroxisomal oxidation. So the bottom line is if there are lipids in your blood stream it will oxidize them. This is where the bulk of the research on this stuff is done. It was used in investigate hyperlipidemia (lots of fat in your blood) which is common in diabetics. So coupled with the standard fat loss stuff that causes adipose to release its payload this stuff will cause more of it to be burned and less of it to get reintegrated in to adipose tissue at the next meal.

Just as important and what makes this so amazing is it exerts these effects in a fed state. That’s right you read that correctly, in a fed state. Can someone say nutrient partitioning agent. Imagine bulking but your muscle is burning 20 times more fat when at rest. Imagine how many damn calories you could consume and still stay lean. In fact all of these studies where I am pulling numbers from are FED ANIMALS and FED TYPE I ad II DIAPETICS !!!! imagine what it could do in a fasted state. WE all know insulin is talked about a lot when it comes to nutrient partitioning but I think this handles the other side of the equation. CPT for all intents and purposes mediates the ratio of carbs to fat that you burn, particularly at rest. I should note that for some reason muscle still burns carbs during high intensity exercise even though CPT is still elevated (no one really knows why, people just assumed CPT was decreased during high intensity exercise but someone finally measured this and it does not decrease but something else causes the carbs to be metabolized). So basically sesamin and episesamin could be used during maintenance or bulking to stay lean and make sure you burn more fat at rest. It could be used during a diet burn a lot more fat.

Oh and one more thing that’s just a little food for thought. Most of the home run CLA studies that make me want to buy the stuff used sesamin. Look it up for yourself. Most of the animal studies showing CLA to make huge and dramatic changes in body type fed the animals 0.2% of there diet as sesamin.

So to sumerize the benefits:
1. huge increase in fat burning.
2. burn more fat when dieting and when fed.
3. protects the liver from necrosis.
4. protects the kidneys from renal failure.
5. improves cholesterol profile dramatically.
6. has anti-cancer properties.
7. protects or elevates vitamin E in the blood stream.

Now the downsides:
First and foremost there is one downside. The stuff slightly stimulates PPARgamma. So that’s a negative but the amount it stimulates PPARgamma compared to its other effects is negligible. This is not surprising though as sesamin seems to work as a lipid disposal agent so it does to some small degree encourage fat cells to store fat. But again this was a very small increase.

Now the bigger problem is you cant buy the damn stuff anywhere. The only stuff I can find is pills of 2.5mg which is worthless. For 0.2% used in the studies on rats (smaller doses were used in people but did not elicit as great a response, of and doses above 0.2% showed only a small increase in effectiveness) we would need multi-gram doses per day.
Anywhere from 4 – 10g depending on how many calories you are consuming. I did find one chemical supplier that sells 98%HPLC pure sesamin but its $1000 per gram. Now this is sold mainly for studies. We as body builders certainly don’t need 98%HPLC pure compound and it would be better to get episesamin in the first place as its far more potent.

The solution would be to use sesame oil. This stuff is used a lot in fast food as it offers more fryings/volume of oil than any other oil. Its also used a lot in cosmetics. The problem is non of these oils are standardized or even geared toward the manufacture this compound. I found some contradictory information on episesamin as well. Not in its affects but in how its created. Some say it’s the toasting of the seeds before the oil is made (this is how the dark color Chinese dipping sauce is made, the lift color oil that used for cooking is not toasted before its bade in to oil) but I found just as much evidence that episesamin is made not while toasting the seeds but during the high temp extraction of the oil. Sesame is not like flax it can be made well during high temp extraction it is very stable and does not oxidize at room temp. The other problem is some seed lines have just about zero of these compounds in them while others are just bursting with them.

I think an ideal product for this stuff would be an un-toasted oil (nice light buttery flavor) that’s made from the seed lines that have loads of sesamin. The oil would be a good mix with flax its rich in GLA and omega -9 acids so for those mixing borage oil I think this would be a better idea. It also would be easy to sell as its very stable at room temp and does not go rancid even when no preservatives are added. 98% HPLC pure compound is simply not economically feasible but a good quality oil is in my opinion.

So what is everyones thoughts? Has anyone else run across this compound? Why is no one selling this stuff? Would you buy it if someone did?

I could be completely wrong on any or all of this but it sounds pretty interesting to me.

DISCUSS!

[jack hust]

very cool keep us updated

[prolangtum]

8/22
Stats:
6'
222
6.3% bf
Waist 33"

Applied 6 squirts at 2pm and another 6 squirts at 7pm. I will dose it tommorow 12 hours apart, I just wanted to try it out today, thus the close dosing. I applied each time 4 squirts on my abs and 2 squirts on my chest. My chest and lower abs is where most of my water retention is at. It has been taking around 10 minutes to fully dry. It suprised me how runny it was, i had to squirt, then quickly rub it in. Around 5 minutes after and continuing for another 15 minutes, there is a slight "cool" burn in the area where applied. Nothing bothersome or uncomfortable.

[lovetoeat]

Yeah the Avant gels aren't gel-like as is implied, more of a watery consistency. Should be interesting, sesamin is supposed to be badass.

[prolangtum]

8/23
Still 222
I measured my waist this morning, it was about 1/8 smaller than yesterday probaly due to the diuretics. I made the mistake of applying the Lipoderm Ultra after i dug out an ingrown hair on my abs. YOUCH! It seems to be drying in the 5 minute time frame now, I think I may have squirted too much the firs time I applied it. Cant wait till the week mark is by to see it really kicking in.

[prolangtum]

8/24 early update
219
32" waist
Even though I was going to update it at night, Ive had some encouraging, suprising, and puzzling results this morning. My waist measured 32" a full inch less than the day before I started, Im also down 3 lbs. Not sure what is going on, if it is fat loss or diuretic affect.

[prolangtum]

Heres a copy of my log from BB.com

8/25
Still 6' (don't think thats changing anytime soon)
219
32"
No realy changes from yesterday morning. I put 3 squirts on my lower abs last night, 1 each on my love handle area, and 1 on my lower chest. I repeated the same procedure this morning. I am visibly leaner in my lower chest area.


8/26
218
Waist 32" (tape measure seemed a bit looser, but not enough to merit changing measurement)

Well, I ran into a slight problem today. After 4 squirts, my bottle squirter thing went to hell, it wont squirt more than a drop at a time, took it apart Im not sure what the deal is. I pm'd Par, but if any of the avant boys see this, and know the ml equivalent for 6 squirts, ill dose it with a syringe. I seemed to be holding a bit of water last night, but as of right now, even after two meals, it seems to have gone completley away. Maybe it was the fact I had a lot of FF dressing last night, which was a proverbial sodium atomic bomb.

8/27
218
31 7/8"
I applied 2 squirts last night to try to see if it has any affects on my somewhat puffed cheeks, even though I have fairly low bf, this has always been an area where I hold a little fat. I was down 1/8 inch this morning on my waist, Im very pleased so far.

[prolangtum]

8/28
218
31 7/8 waist
Same measurements. I noticed last night i had a greenish/yellow coloration around me armpit area. Seems it makes me sweat a strange color.


8/29
Nothin new really to report today. Same measurements and weight.


On a side note, Par said hes getting the sweat stain issue fixed before releasing it for retail.

[speedracer59]

Bizzzump for update.

[prolangtum]

Oops, I forgot. Well in ~2 weeks, I lost 4 lbs and 1 1/8" off my waist. Well worth the retail of $34.95.

[speedracer59]

cool any sides ? Water gain etc.

[prolangtum]

I didnt notice any water retention. Besides the staining issue(which Par now has worked out) I am completley satisfied, especially since it was free, he he.

[monroe]

when and where is it available in retail?

[prolangtum]

http://www.mindandmuscle.net/product.php?productID=26

[monroe]

thanx bro