Bench Press

[football89]

My current max bench press is 200 pounds, I'm jsut looking for some tips on improving.

[Stonecold54]

why? the reason will dictate the training method.

[football89]

As you can probably see I'm a football player. I basicly jsut want to improve my bench press for strength and power.

[shortz]

IMO, strength and power for football is based on position of play and mostly Olympic type lifts. Max bench isn't always what you are looking for. Speed, strength and power...comes from doing much more than maxing.

[football89]

Ok. Thanks for that. But could you still give me some tips on improving my bench press. I have stayed around 200 max for a while now.

[Jordan]

try pyramiding: do one set at 135 for say, 10 reps, then 155 for 6, 175 for 3, 195 for 2, 225 for 1... find weight amounts that are suitable for you. this technique seems to be the best for gaining strength... start with a light weight with lots of reps then keep adding weight and lowering reps until you get to your max weight. go for 4-6 sets total

[shortz]

What is your current routine and how often do you max? When you do max, at one point in the motion are you strongest and weakest? When lowering the bar, how fast/slow do you go?

[football89]

I usually bench press 2 times a week. Tuesdays and Fridays. On Tuesdays I do 8 sets of 8 reps of 135. On Fridays I do one warm up set of 8 reps of 135, then do power sets of 1-2 reps of 200.

[Stonecold54]

improving bench press will not increase any type of performance (or for that matter no increase in strength in the gym will help you on the field) unless there is a muscular gain. There is no such thing as sports specific training because specific is specific and in no sport is there a barbell involved (unless you are powerlifter). Gym training should always be for increased muscle mass and overall health. The practice field is how you develop your skills to maximize CNS recruitment to get the most out of your body.

[shortz]

Originally posted by stonecold54
improving bench press will not increase any type of performance (or for that matter no increase in strength in the gym will help you on the field) unless there is a muscular gain. There is no such thing as sports specific training because specific is specific and in no sport is there a barbell involved (unless you are powerlifter). Gym training should always be for increased muscle mass and overall health. The practice field is how you develop your skills to maximize CNS recruitment to get the most out of your body.

I have to disagree. There are different ways to build the CNS and strength. Why do you thikn NFL players do Olympic lifts and power movements instead of lifting like a BBer?

[shortz]

Originally posted by football89
I usually bench press 2 times a week. Tuesdays and Fridays. On Tuesdays I do 8 sets of 8 reps of 135. On Fridays I do one warm up set of 8 reps of 135, then do power sets of 1-2 reps of 200.

Perhaps you shouldn't be hitting max every week. That is a sure way to hit a barrier. Maxing should only take place no more than 8 weeks apart. The rest of the time should be spent on form and building up your weaknesses.

[Stonecold54]

Originally posted by shortz
I have to disagree. There are different ways to build the CNS and strength. Why do you thikn NFL players do Olympic lifts and power movements instead of lifting like a BBer?

sports players and professional athletes train as they do because they have strength coaches who don't know their elbows from their butts. that being said an elite athlete is neither evidence for or against a training method but over 1/3 of NFL teams use a HIT approach to their training. But again that doesn't prove anything either the proof is in the theory and the principles dictacted by the theory. I agree that there are different ways to get CNS and strength, my point is that there is no specific carryover from gym movements to the playing field.

[NYCmitch25]

Originally posted by shortz
IMO, strength and power for football is based on position of play and mostly Olympic type lifts. Max bench isn't always what you are looking for. Speed, strength and power...comes from doing much more than maxing.

Post your routine for chest in detail for criticism. Be specific. Lets try to up your bench press. Age and weight would help.

*For now im going to stay away from the controversy over the movement for Football. Just give you ways to improve it.

[Thrower74]

Originally posted by football89
My current max bench press is 200 pounds, I'm jsut looking for some tips on improving.

For starters how often do you switch up your lifting routine? If you are stuck at a plateau in the weight room it may due to your program. One good way to get your bench up and there are many, is to do a lot of work with (TUT) time under tension. This is great for increased mass as well as increasing strength. The key is to train with some sort of progression and to change things up every three weeks or so. Also you need to work on areas of “functional weakness” in the lift and train the supporting muscles as well as the major muscles of the group. I have an excellent program for getting your bench up. I will get it and post it up for you to see. It is very intensive and works extremely well.

[Thrower74]

Originally posted by stonecold54
improving bench press will not increase any type of performance (or for that matter no increase in strength in the gym will help you on the field) unless there is a muscular gain. There is no such thing as sports specific training because specific is specific and in no sport is there a barbell involved (unless you are powerlifter). Gym training should always be for increased muscle mass and overall health. The practice field is how you develop your skills to maximize CNS recruitment to get the most out of your body.

SC, I don’t mean to be disrespectful but that is an incorrect statement. If an increase in strength didn't improve performance in an athlete’s given venue of choice then why do so many athletes weight train? I am a high level athlete myself and can say that my increase in strength pays off directly on the field. If your statement were true then people like Charles Poliquin, Christian Thibaudeau, ect would be out of a job. The one thing that we must realize is that mass is not always the almighty goal and can at times be detrimental to an athlete. In fact the body building community is one of the only areas where mass is it the most important aspect. A certain amount of body mass is important to a degree in many sports but strength and dynamics is much more important to football players, baseball players, track and hockey athletes and so on. A good example is to look at the former world record holder in the 100m sprint, Ben Johnson. At 172lbs he had a 605lb back squat and a 420 bench. He ran his fastest while at his strongest. According to your theory if he was packing more mass he would have been faster and his strength gains are irrelevant since he doesn’t run with a barbell in his hands. That theory definitely won’t hold water with anyone in the strength and power community.

[Thrower74]

FB89, here is a simple yet excellent program for increasing your bench. It will also work for the squat. It was invented by the Russians and since has been used by several coaches looking to gets athletes stronger. I know 4 Olympic athletes that used this program with great success.

Bench Cycle

Weeks

week 1: 5 sets of 10 @ 50% of your 1 rep max
week 2: 10x50%, 8x60%, 8x62.5%, 7x70%, 6x67.5%
week 3: 10x50%, 8x62.6%, 7x65%, 7x67.5%, 5x70%
week 4: 10x50%, 7x65%, 7x70%, 6x72.5%, 5x75%
week 5: 10x50%, 7x72.5%, 6x75%, 5x77.5%, 4x80%
week 6: 10x50%, 6x75%, 6x77.5%, 4x80%, 3x82.5%
week 7: 10x50%, 6x80%, 5x82.5%, 4x85%, 3x87.5%
week 8: 10x50%, 6x75%, 4x85%, 2x90%, 1x105%

This is your primary chest owrk for the week. On your second upper body day hit the incline and do some work to strengthen your back, rotator cuffs and triceps as well.

[NYCmitch25]

Good reply. I did something similar to this when I played Football. It worked well.

[pierced one]

i did the same thing when i was in school. it seemed to work pretty good for the overall strength increase.

[football89]

Thanks alot. I'll try that bench cycle and tell you guys how it goes.

[realconan]

Originally posted by Thrower74
According to your theory if he was packing more mass he would have been faster and his strength gains are irrelevant since he doesn’t run with a barbell in his hands.

OMG that's funny!! That would look pretty funny if 100 meter sprinters all ran holding barbells.

[Stonecold54]

Originally posted by Thrower74
SC, I don’t mean to be disrespectful but that is an incorrect statement. If an increase in strength didn't improve performance in an athlete’s given venue of choice then why do so many athletes weight train? I am a high level athlete myself and can say that my increase in strength pays off directly on the field. If your statement were true then people like Charles Poliquin, Christian Thibaudeau, ect would be out of a job. The one thing that we must realize is that mass is not always the almighty goal and can at times be detrimental to an athlete. In fact the body building community is one of the only areas where mass is it the most important aspect. A certain amount of body mass is important to a degree in many sports but strength and dynamics is much more important to football players, baseball players, track and hockey athletes and so on. A good example is to look at the former world record holder in the 100m sprint, Ben Johnson. At 172lbs he had a 605lb back squat and a 420 bench. He ran his fastest while at his strongest. According to your theory if he was packing more mass he would have been faster and his strength gains are irrelevant since he doesn’t run with a barbell in his hands. That theory definitely won’t hold water with anyone in the strength and power community.

Charles poliquin should be out of a job...he really shouldn't be advising people. I stated the reason why people go in the gym...for overall health and increased muscle mass. and as far as the "Community" you are only talking about the one side of it that hasn't had an intelligent update since the 70's. They do flawed studies and then do more studies that quote those studies. i can't get into it all but there are more than enough "Authorties" that go against the orthodox. But whether it is a hundered or a million they can all be wrong. I never said your strength increases wouldn't "help". I am just saying that movements in the gym do not help movements on the field as far as being "explosive". It always strikes a nerve with people when I mention this stuff becuase that is all they have been taught for years and they have been show false data to back up false assumptions.

[Thrower74]

Originally posted by stonecold54
Charles poliquin should be out of a job...he really shouldn't be advising people. I stated the reason why people go in the gym...for overall health and increased muscle mass. and as far as the "Community" you are only talking about the one side of it that hasn't had an intelligent update since the 70's. They do flawed studies and then do more studies that quote those studies. i can't get into it all but there are more than enough "Authorties" that go against the orthodox. But whether it is a hundered or a million they can all be wrong. I never said your strength increases wouldn't "help". I am just saying that movements in the gym do not help movements on the field as far as being "explosive". It always strikes a nerve with people when I mention this stuff becuase that is all they have been taught for years and they have been show false data to back up false assumptions.

Poliquin should be out of a job? I am not sure of the logic behind that sort of statement. Why not axe Tudor Bompa who developed the concept of periodization in 1960’s as well since he was a huge influence on Poliquin’s ideas of training. If all of these coaches are so ill-informed on strength training maybe you should publish a book telling athletes that they are wasting their time if they think that lifting will improve their performance in sport. That will be a hot seller I am sure. I think that the 400+Olympians that Poliquin has coached, (9 of which were medalists at one olympics alone) and the 60 pro hockey and football players that credit there improvement in sport may disagree.

I agree that most people go to the gym to gain better overall health and muscle gain, but we are not talking about regular people here, we are talking about athletes. I know for a fact that Olympic style weight lifting has a direct influence on the CNS and manifests itself in increased power and explosive strength. I am not sure why you are ignorant to this but it has been proven time and time again. If you do some research you will see that there have been many innovations in strength training since the 70’s. Again there is much more to the science of weight lifting than just getting bigger muscles.

[Stonecold54]

Originally posted by Thrower74
Poliquin should be out of a job? I am not sure of the logic behind that sort of statement. Why not axe Tudor Bompa who developed the concept of periodization in 1960’s as well since he was a huge influence on Poliquin’s ideas of training. If all of these coaches are so ill-informed on strength training maybe you should publish a book telling athletes that they are wasting their time if they think that lifting will improve their performance in sport. That will be a hot seller I am sure. I think that the 400+Olympians that Poliquin has coached, (9 of which were medalists at one olympics alone) and the 60 pro hockey and football players that credit there improvement in sport may disagree.

I agree that most people go to the gym to gain better overall health and muscle gain, but we are not talking about regular people here, we are talking about athletes. I know for a fact that Olympic style weight lifting has a direct influence on the CNS and manifests itself in increased power and explosive strength. I am not sure why you are ignorant to this but it has been proven time and time again. If you do some research you will see that there have been many innovations in strength training since the 70’s. Again there is much more to the science of weight lifting than just getting bigger muscles.

there are a lot of books that go against volume and periodization training. Arthur Jones has been writing them since the 70's...mike mentzer has in the 80's Brian Johnston has a nice website with over 20 books from himself and other authors for any information you might want fromt the "other side". www.exercisecertification.com if you are interested. I know that there is more to the science than getting muscles. I don't know why my statements always inflame people. The fact that you have never heard of the "other side" doesn't mean to jump on my shit. I have read both sides...have you? obviously this is not a forum for indepth discussion becuase of the short answer and response. But you should expand your reading and then talk. Its kind of like a religious speaking before discovering real science to explain things. and again he could train every elite athlete in the world but that doesn't mean squat in the morning...elite is exactly that-ELITE. they are far right of the bell curve that will progress no matter what they do.

[shortz]

Originally posted by stonecold54
there are a lot of books that go against volume and periodization training. Arthur Jones has been writing them since the 70's...mike mentzer has in the 80's Brian Johnston has a nice website with over 20 books from himself and other authors for any information you might want fromt the "other side". www.exercisecertification.com if you are interested. I know that there is more to the science than getting muscles. I don't know why my statements always inflame people. The fact that you have never heard of the "other side" doesn't mean to jump on my shit. I have read both sides...have you? obviously this is not a forum for indepth discussion becuase of the short answer and response. But you should expand your reading and then talk. Its kind of like a religious speaking before discovering real science to explain things. and again he could train every elite athlete in the world but that doesn't mean squat in the morning...elite is exactly that-ELITE. they are far right of the bell curve that will progress no matter what they do.

No offense, but you are preaching to someone who has done more reading and training then you. Not sure why you are telling him to do more research. He is VERY well traind and familar with more training methods than I can imagine.

Def gotta agree with thrower on this one. After all, if anyone knows about athletic training, it's a high level athlete.