new workout idea

Ok so i've been doin the 1 a day workouts real heavy... gettin lots of rest, chest legs and back growin mad style but bi's and tri's not reactin as well even though i just IGF'd it. Would I still be potentially over training if I hit bi's/tri's on same day and did it 2x a week instead of one. Always on test, diet is a bulker, I'm just still not gettin the arms where I want them, I realize they are a smaller muscle group and that rest is critical but cmon now the rest of me grows like a weed and the arms grow like crap.

K

[beefcake]

I have the same problem as well. Tri's are good, but bi's and traps just aren't cutting it the way i'd like them too. I'm starting to believe that lighter weight on the bi's is the key.

traps I'm AG, but tri's and bi's kick my ass... I worry if I am still over training them since the rest of me is growing, but i have noticed I have more strength in my chest and back workouts from my increase in arm strength and size

K

[BBAddict]

IMO, bis 2x/wk and back 1x/wk would basically be bis 3x/wk. If you were to do it one other time, as long as you're on gear, what if you did some bis after your back workout?

like a lil extra to supplement? instead of doin a whole workout?

K

[BBAddict]

Yeah, maybe like 6sets of bis after a back workout. I'm just thinking that if you wanna hit your bis 2x/wk, which I definitely understand and have seen decent results from at times, then it's probably best to work one in with your back. Otherwise, like I was saying, you're kinda hitting them 3x. At least for me, my bis actually are pretty sore the day after a back workout, so they're definitely getting hit pretty good.

On a side note but related, I'm personally convinced that recovery and repair time of different muscle groups is different for different people depending on a number of factors, including ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscles. That would mean that the ideal time between workouts for different muscle groups would be different, so working out 1x/wk could be undertraining for one muscle and overtraining for another. For example, my quads are still really sore tonight from my Sunday workout, but my bis would never be sore this long after a workout. I'm thinking about trying to put together a workout that would take this into account but it could be tough. If I saw the right results though, it could be worth it.

yah im thinkin the same thing might be true for me I gotta experiment and find out whats up, I'll prob try the extra sets after back thing for 4 weeks and see whats up

K

[wheyman]

I have tried different approaches and honestly didn't like grouping bi's and tri's with anything. People can go back and forth on this subject all day long. Some say that just b/c you lift as much weight by the time you get to arms is a sign that they have already been working hard and don't need but a few more sets to complete the workout. I agree to a certain extent. You could say the same thing about chest and shoulders or legs and back..You could say that you are using your delts with some chest movements so you only need a couple sets of shoulders to complete the workout. You could say that your back gets a workout from squats so you only need a few more sets of back to complete the workout.....Not likely.

My point is this; when working back YES your bi's do get some work, but so do your joints and all other supporting muscles. It is these supporting muscles and joints that you need to have a good QUALITY workout with bi's, but you can't b/c they are fatigued from your back workout. Same with chest and tri's.

I believe that matching up bi's and tri's with other bodyparts work fine with those that are genetically gifted and don't need that much work so they could probably grow without hitting bi's and tri's directly all together.

Don't get me wrong, by all means give it a try; It might work for you.

WM

I'm just expecting too much maybe but its frustrating since the rest of me is makin nice gains

K

[wheyman]

Originally Posted by num1son

I'm just expecting too much maybe but its frustrating since the rest of me is makin nice gains

K

List what you do for arms

straight bar curls 5 sets 6-8x135
preacher curls 4 sets 6x100-110 dependin on soreness
hammer curls 4 sets 10x70lb db
iso cable curs 4 sets 45lbs to failure(each arm)

triceps
narrow grip bench from 45degree to lockout 5 sets 8-325
cable ropes slow cadence at 95lbs 4 sets
iso cable ext 50lbs 6 sets to failure then 40 lbs to failure

K

[wheyman]

Originally Posted by num1son

straight bar curls 5 sets 6-8x135
preacher curls 4 sets 6x100-110 dependin on soreness
hammer curls 4 sets 10x70lb db
iso cable curs 4 sets 45lbs to failure(each arm)

triceps
narrow grip bench from 45degree to lockout 5 sets 8-325
cable ropes slow cadence at 95lbs 4 sets
iso cable ext 50lbs 6 sets to failure then 40 lbs to failure

K

DAMN! Well that's your answer right there buddy, you doing entirely too many sets for arms. That's actually more than what I was anticipating.

That's 17 sets for bi's and 15 sets of tri's to failure. At the most all you need is 9 sets for bi's and 9 for tri's..Three movements, three sets each.

I would take off of arms for completely for a month. After that start fresh with a new approach.

Originally Posted by wheyman

DAMN! Well that's your answer right there buddy, you doing entirely too many sets for arms. That's actually more than what I was anticipating.

That's 17 sets for bi's and 15 sets of tri's to failure. At the most all you need is 9 sets for bi's and 9 for tri's..Three movements, three sets each.

I would take off of arms for completely for a month. After that start fresh with a new approach.

God, and this is my cut down workout i started about a month ago, so no direct contact with bi's or tris just with chest and back,use that as my only bi and tri stim...

K

I just have a deep fear of doin too little, i've gotten all my other parts down pat but just not the arms...its this fear of not doin enuf and it bothers me I don't know if i could mentally take a month off of arm training...

K

[wheyman]

Originally Posted by num1son

I just have a deep fear of doin too little, i've gotten all my other parts down pat but just not the arms...its this fear of not doin enuf and it bothers me I don't know if i could mentally take a month off of arm training...

K

I was the same way, but you arms are overtrained and they will not grow at this point. They need sufficient rest before you start to work them again. At this point you haven't been building them, you have just been tearing down muscle. I didn't think I could do it either, but you have to think about what you want. Do you want your arms to grow or do you not want them to grow, but feel good mentally b/c you hitting them?

WM

What's the reasoning behind the one month no arms training, - would it be better with two weeks or is there some reason for the 4 weeks?
I took whole weekend off from friday on(stress) and don't mind hittin four weeks of no arms if there was an added benefit over 2 weeks

K

[wheyman]

Originally Posted by num1son

What's the reasoning behind the one month no arms training, - would it be better with two weeks or is there some reason for the 4 weeks?
I took whole weekend off from friday on(stress) and don't mind hittin four weeks of no arms if there was an added benefit over 2 weeks

K

I say four weeks b/c that will allow enough time to recover from overtraining. There is no scientific explination if that is what you are looking for, but you have to think about it man. You have been overtraining for some time now so your arms need a break. As long as your keeping your protein intake up and training other bodyparts you won't lose any size. You will feel like you have just because you won't be sore or pumped from the workout, but you will be fine.

It's up to you how long you take off man and about 90% of the time most guys won't do it and they go back to their own training styles. Then you see them complaining about arm size again. I was the same way.

WM

[Taylor]

too best exercises with my tris are cable pulldowns and very slow skullcrushers

stuff like narrow grip bench and tri extensions don't do much for me....just experiment with a handful of exercises and see which you feel more

Well i'm gonna give my arms a break from direct lifts...for 28 days then have some fun and see what happens

K

[mastakillah]

yeah, wheyman's right. Remember your own words, bi's and tri's are smaller muscle groups, they dont need that many sets. Damn, aren't your arms just dead after doing 4 sets of one exercise anyway. Cut down to 3 set per exercise and maybe a total of 3 exercises, if that even.

I've always had tons of muscular endurance... always trained HIT my whole life with soccer and wrestling so I got so used to it. I just needed to step back and take a look at the big picture... with the help of a few people yelling at me to step back hahaha

K

[infiniti1982]

i didn't really read through all of this and im not sure if this has been suggested, but: rather than lifting a lagging group twice as often as stronger groups, lift stronger groups half as much as you lift lagging groups. So like lift bis every 4 days, back every 8 days, or whatever you wanna do.


:hmmm: just a thought.

So far I've taken a lil over a week off on arms and notice a big difference, I took an extra 5 days off the whole body and it gave me a lot of renewed vigor, my tri's actually look better(could be in my mind but look more rounded) Yah I only train traps once every 10 days or once a week and they are growing nicely so I guess I just have to really listen to the individual parts and make a wierd time frame split

K

It's been 2 weeks how much longer do I have to wait... I do feel better taking arms off infact my chest and back lifts have been much more fullfilling and better strength wise

K

[wheyman]

Originally Posted by num1son

It's been 2 weeks how much longer do I have to wait... I do feel better taking arms off infact my chest and back lifts have been much more fullfilling and better strength wise

K

I'd give it another week or two; I would wait two more. Remember that when you start again not to go back to so much volume. 3 movements, 3 sets will be more than enough..You could even do a little less and still get gains.

WM

[iceberg]

Originally Posted by wheyman

DAMN! Well that's your answer right there buddy, you doing entirely too many sets for arms. That's actually more than what I was anticipating.

That's 17 sets for bi's and 15 sets of tri's to failure. At the most all you need is 9 sets for bi's and 9 for tri's..Three movements, three sets each.

I would take off of arms for completely for a month. After that start fresh with a new approach.

I agree. I am a big believer in fewer quality sets. Take some time off, like what has been suggested and the after a couple of weeks of training again do something different like the following if you feel stuck:
100s
tempo sets
21's
high rep drops

I like to do these when I feel like workout is reaching sticking point (not sore the next day).

how often do you change up your workout?

Today is my first day back training arms, I'm extremely excited... gonna take it easy and make sure I just get into the groove
Iceberg, usually 6 weeks i change things up, maybe reps or replace a movement, every so often i go really high reps and just burn myself out, a lot depends on my goals and how my body is feeling

K