Did you know?

[shortz]

Did you know that without properly training the neuro system that a BBer may only using 20-30% of his muscular cababilities?

[coffee-guy]

Elaborate?

[shortz]

Sorry, this question is getting asked on every board i posted this. I am far from an expert on this topic, so if any gurus want to ad, feel free.

First, let's clarify a couple terms. Structural exercises refer to lifts that could replicate every day life type movements are are geared a little more torwards mass and strength. Bench press and deadlifting are two examples. Functional lifts refer to lifts that are geared more torwards explosive movements and help to build the neuro system. These usually consist of Oly lifts. Finally, dynamic lifts refer to bascily the same movements as structural lifts, but are done in a more explosive manner with less weights.

Couple ways to integrate these into your routines. One way is to use a non-linear or linear periodization, non-linear seems to be the superio of the two, and cycle between structural, functional and dynamic weeks or every few weeks. Another way is to have certain days that focuses one specifically, another is to have one of each for each day.

The fastest proven way, as far as I know, is to lower over all volume of your workouts, increase workout frequency and use functional and structural in each day. For instance, you would do power cleans and barbell rows for one workout and that would be it. But, you would be working out EOD, sinec the CNS needs 24 hours to recover. The next day may be push presses and skull crushers.

If you would like more examples, I could probably comes up with more.

[Shibby]

I'm not trying to tear down your posts, but you have been posting alot lately on these ideas of training. I just want to know more of the research and background to them.

[shortz]

Alot of this info I already learned through my training program. I just didn't really know how to apply it and now that I have been researching more training styles and theories, I finally understand alot of it.

Alot of these training terms and styles are used by many people, they just didn't know the terms used to describe them.

Most of my research comes from Mel Siff, Charles Poliquin, Christian Thibaudeau and from my personal training program, in which describes the different energy systems and how they apply.

[shortz]

BTW, talk to many of the training gurus on the boards and many of them actually use some of the methods that I describe.

[Shibby]

Thanks for the info, what PT program are you using?

[shortz]

I am certified through NESTA.

[shortz]

Oh yeah, I am not offended at all. In the last few months I have had an everlasting hunger for knowledge of training. I just can't get enough info and my knowledge on training and diet has really taken off. It is humbling to pick up a good book and read many things I never knew.

I try not to be biast either, but I have to say, everything I posted above is used by top athletes one way or another. With the addition of plyos, this is the most solid info I can give you on the subject and have more than one source on it.

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by shortz

Sorry, this question is getting asked on every board i posted this. I am far from an expert on this topic, so if any gurus want to ad, feel free.

First, let's clarify a couple terms. Structural exercises refer to lifts that could replicate every day life type movements are are geared a little more torwards mass and strength. Bench press and deadlifting are two examples what part of everyday life do you lay on your back and use a barbell? or use a barbell in the deadlift postion. Functional lifts refer to lifts that are geared more torwards explosive movements and help to build the neuro system.There is a lot more evidence in my opinion that slow controlled movements produce more neuromuscular strength (if that is what you are talking about). That is why Superslow is not a very good system for hypertrophy. They had trainers that recorded enormous amounts of strength gains with little to show in way of size because of the neuromuscular conditioning they achieved. These usually consist of Oly lifts. Finally, dynamic lifts refer to bascily the same movements as structural lifts, but are done in a more explosive manner with less weights.

Couple ways to integrate these into your routines. One way is to use a non-linear or linear periodization, non-linear seems to be the superio of the two, and cycle between structural, functional and dynamic weeks or every few weeks. Another way is to have certain days that focuses one specifically, another is to have one of each for each day.

The fastest proven way, as far as I know, is to lower over all volume of your workouts, increase workout frequency and use functional and structural in each day what are you improving? I can't figure out that part? the fastest proven way...to what? . For instance, you would do power cleans and barbell rows for one workout and that would be it. But, you would be working out EOD, sinec the CNS needs 24 hours to recover. The next day may be push presses and skull crushers.

If you would like more examples, I could probably comes up with more.

That is why I can't stand most certification companies. they make up a lot of ambigious terms that really don't mean anything except sound neat when a trainer is impressing a client. I don't mean to offend anyone but I just can't stand the state of weight training and what passes for information.

[Shibby]

Again I don't want to tear you down, but when a company says they will discount you for enrolling in there PT and advanced PT program at the same time it's usually not a good sign for applicable training. It does give you alot of info, but most of it is incomplete and it takes some expierence with time to sort through all the confussion. On a side not, I am one of those that dosn't belive in plyo's unless it is body resistance only.

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by shortz

Oh yeah, I am not offended at all. In the last few months I have had an everlasting hunger for knowledge of training. I just can't get enough info and my knowledge on training and diet has really taken off. It is humbling to pick up a good book and read many things I never knew.

I try not to be biast either, but I have to say, everything I posted above is used by top athletes one way or anotherwhether 1 million people use it or 1 person, right is right and wrong is wrong...top athletes don't know anymore than most people beacuse they are exactly that "top athletes" they have a million people around them who are paid to tell them what to do and with superior genetics most of them achieve despite what they do. With the addition of plyos, this is the most solid info I can give you on the subject and have more than one source on it.

there is about 10-15 good books on the site posted in my sig. Read them and then tell me what you think if your thirst is that great. :nerdnew:

[Shibby]

Originally Posted by stonecold54

That is why I can't stand most certification companies. they make up a lot of ambigious terms that really don't mean anything except sound neat when a trainer is impressing a client. I don't mean to offend anyone but I just can't stand the state of weight training and what passes for information.

I posted mine before I read this, but it goes along the same lines.

[shortz]

Originally Posted by stonecold54

That is why I can't stand most certification companies. they make up a lot of ambigious terms that really don't mean anything except sound neat when a trainer is impressing a client. I don't mean to offend anyone but I just can't stand the state of weight training and what passes for information.

Bending over with good form to pick something up is not an every day thing? Pushing objects are not something done in every day life? You are being silly with your analogy of "Using a barbell for everyday life".

Nueromuscular strength takes frequency to build it the fastest. This is why an Oly lifter does his Oly lifts numerous times per week to build up his CNS weeks before a comp. Answer this...if I were to do pullups everyday, would I get better at them faster everyday or doing them once per week? Frequency will most certainly make you better.

Can you run a 40 in 4 seconds? Do you think before training properly, all athletes can do this? If plyos and these functional systems do not work, then how are they improving their times and their ability to jump higher? They should be able to do that without them, right? Well, they tried and found that the training is not as effective as functional training and plyos.

[shortz]

BTW, the terms functional and structural are common knowledge, I am suprised to see you debating it.

[Shibby]

I think plyos' get a little misinterpreted(sp) due to some functional results. But there are better options. Figure out what muscles are involved in a particular function. Get those stronger. Then apply the motion of CNS you are trying to use on it's own. CNS is pretty specific to the movement preformed.

[shortz]

Originally Posted by Shibby

I think plyos' get a little misinterpreted(sp) due to some functional results. But there are better options. Figure out what muscles are involved in a particular function. Get those stronger. Then apply the motion of CNS you are trying to use on it's own. CNS is pretty specific to the movement preformed.

Now that I can agree with.

I am basicly refering to the the entire CNS for general purposes.

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by shortz

BTW, the terms functional and structural are common knowledge, I am suprised to see you debating it.

the earth used to be flat to as common knowledge, it also used to be the center of the solar system....my only point is that what is common is not always right.

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by shortz

Bending over with good form to pick something up is not an every day thing? Pushing objects are not something done in every day life? You are being silly with your analogy of "Using a barbell for everyday life". I am referring to the SAID principle...specific adaptations for imposed demands....specific is specific there is no almost specifc. there is no transference of ability from the gym to real life. Go to the gym to get healthier, bigger and stronger but you must practice whatever it is you want to get better at by doing that specific task

Nueromuscular strength takes frequency to build it the fastest. This is why an Oly lifter does his Oly lifts numerous times per week to build up his CNS weeks before a comp. Answer this...if I were to do pullups everyday, would I get better at them faster everyday or doing them once per week? Frequency will most certainly make you better. I don't have an problem with these statments as far as being factual...though they would be taken out of context for a proper weight training program...but you are right if I wanted to get better at pullups (such as if I was training for a test or something) then I would increase the frequency, but you will have to agree that there is a quick level of diminishing returns to that type of logic based on what we know about stress physiology and how the body responds

Can you run a 40 in 4 secondsI don't think so ? Do you think before training properly, all athletes can do this of course not all....there are few absolutes in the world but I am sure there are some ? If plyos and these functional systems do not work, then how are they improving their times and their ability to jump higher Okay here is an experiment....have these atheletes stop practicing anything in their sport for 1 year and only do stuff in the gym...do you think they would be able to the same amount or improve on times? You are getting the cause and effect mixed up and sometimes there are factors in life that don't have any impact even though there is a perceived impact ? They should be able to do that without them, right? Well, they tried and found that the training is not as effective as functional training and plyos if the "they" you are referring to is the same people who do the same 2 studies over and over and then reference themselves in the new studies or reference old studies which have been proven to be faulty or false, then I don't think I will take "Their" word for it.

I would still recommend to read at least most of the books on the www.exercisecertification.com website....I think you will like the brain stimulation of it.

http://www.exercisecertification.com...lyometrics.pdf

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by shortz

Now that I can agree with.

I am basicly refering to the the entire CNS for general purposes.

lol...shibby pretty much said the same thing I was saying about plyos just in different terms...you can't agree with him and disagree with me. :bbq:

[shortz]

Stone, have you read this book?

http://www.exercisecertification.com...e-Science.html

[shortz]

Ok, lemme ask you this. You are arguing everything that I am speaking of, that these things I have said are general census and that you challenge them. Tudor Bompa is a major advocate of plyometrics, has a long history of track and field, rowing, and strength training. What crudentials do you have that suddenly disproves a lifetime of someone's work like this?

Stone, you sort of have a way with belittleling people when discussing training theory, this is why I feel I can discuss things or perhaps agree with what shibby is saying. Look at his replies. You will see that his points are not only educated and valid, but he does it with tact. You are very abrasive with your replies. I wanted to just end this discussion, but I just needed to get this out.

So, can you ever be wrong?

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by shortz

Stone, have you read this book?

http://www.exercisecertification.com...e-Science.html

Well that is a sort of compliation...I own most of those as individual books. But I have read them all.