Shoulders & through the middle

[redsquirrel]

Alright...so as you all know, I've committed to doing 2 figure shows in October...Diet starts July 9th, so that really sucks balls.

Anyway- I really need some suggestions on building the medial deltoid..(I think that's what it's called). My front & rear delts are pretty well defined, but my medial looks flat. I need to get that rounded shoulder look.

I also need to get a little thinner through the middle....obviously fat loss will accomplish some of this, but I need to thin my waist & hips out a little.

So here's my plan of attack:

For shoulders, I have started doing them twice a week. But, does anyone have any suggestions for exercises that will really concentrate that particular muscle?

For getting thinner through the middle, I'm going to have to stop squatting the house...or at least not go deep. Anyway, I think I will just stop altogether over the next 4 months to get a more streamlined look. I think I'll stick with step ups w/ DB's, lunges and leg press???

I don't have a super tiny waist, so does any one have any other suggestions?

[Scrumhalf]

Delts have always been my best body part - never have had any trouble making them pop out (relatively speaking, that is).

I have had the best results with seated DB presses followed by standing lateral raises. In both cases, dropping down a DB size and concentrating on form allowed me to get a fabulous burn. I would then add front DB raises on one shoulders workout day and bent over lateral DB raises on the next shoulders day to hit the front and rear delts respectively.

That's what worked for me - I've never competed, so don't know if I should even be offering my opinion here.. ... So, basically YMMV.

[Stonecold54]

partial reps...most of the "lateral" movement with a db is wasted movment because it is horizontal instead of vertical (thats for you BOUNCER, lol). so if you want a good exercise...do the top 1/3 of the movement to failure...then rest 20-30 secs and do the middle third to failure. don't bother with the last third...then what I like to do is to do holds at the top...for as long as I can...usually 45 sec-1:00 min hold...burns the shit out of them...and I have always have had shitty shoulders till I started incorporating it. so no offense scrum but if delts have always been your best bodypart then I would say genetics helped you so you could probably look at a protein jug and grow them...you bastard . I also would not work them twice a week but that is me. every upper body movement hits them...once a week is fine if you hit it with enough intensity variables.

[Mr incredible]

I'd say barbell press behind the neck, it hits the medial for me every time beautifully and gives it a real arc. Personally I do full reps, right down and right up but you need to be very careful with form on this one if your not used to it and not go too heavy. 12-15 rep range on this would give you a great pump and pop that little cannon ball shape right through.

Best done on a press station with free weight IMO

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by Mr incredible

I'd say barbell press behind the neck, it hits the medial for me every time beautifully and gives it a real arc. Personally I do full reps, right down and right up but you need to be very careful with form on this one if your not used to it and not go too heavy. 12-15 rep range on this would give you a great pump and pop that little cannon ball shape right through.

Best done on a press station with free weight IMO

ahhhhh....nothing behind the neck...bad for your neck, pinching nerves, straining muscles....its the same thing in front bud...don't do behind the neck.

[Scrumhalf]

Originally Posted by Stonecold54

partial reps...most of the "lateral" movement with a db is wasted movment because it is horizontal instead of vertical (thats for you BOUNCER, lol). so if you want a good exercise...do the top 1/3 of the movement to failure...then rest 20-30 secs and do the middle third to failure. don't bother with the last third...then what I like to do is to do holds at the top...for as long as I can...usually 45 sec-1:00 min hold...burns the shit out of them..

Yeah... I've got to try the partial reps. I kinda do that anyway in my lateral raises in a sense - I don't bring them all the way to the front of my waist. I don't bring them any closer than about 6-8 inches outside my thigh and then all the way to the top.

[THE BOUNCER]

my shoulders are also my best bodypart. few guys in the gym here call me "shoulders" lol. i start out with barbell presses, always in front never behind the head. then i move on to hammer strength shoulder presses. after that i do side raises. ( i dont agree with stonecold on this one though. i feel that by going all the way down you can build a little more momentum on the way back up and use heavier weight while keeping it controlled.) last thing i do is bent over raises to hit the rear delt.

[Mr incredible]

Originally Posted by Stonecold54

ahhhhh....nothing behind the neck...bad for your neck, pinching nerves, straining muscles....its the same thing in front bud...don't do behind the neck.

I know what your saying bro but I've done them since like 14 years old so they're natural for me know and I find they really hit the medial. I would say to someone starting afresh though to take it steady and use a light weight, I use 220lb for 2-3 sets but there arn't many in the gym I train that use that much

One thing to note, I think I remember this from an old Larry Scott article, a good rear delt helps accentuate the medial if you look at someone from the front, it brings out that cannon ball look.

[beefcake]

I still use the all the way down on shoulders and the behind the neck press. Perhaps it's time I should stop. Shoulders feel great though.

[redsquirrel]

Well, a normal shoulder workout for me is:

Front raises, side raises, DB press, and rear flyes

I will change it up every couple of weeks and throw in some cable exercises or BB smith press...Everything I'm doing seems to have been mentioned....So if I'm doing everything I'm supposed to, then all I have to say is:

GENETICS SUCK ASS

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by redsquirrel

So if I'm doing everything I'm supposed to, then all I have to say is:

GENETICS SUCK ASS

why you so down on yourself lately? by the way you talk, you might think you are some slob. you look great, now stop your bitching and get to work!

[coffee-guy]

To add to SC's info make sure you lean forward a little on your lateral exercises - 99% of the poulations shoulder joint allignment is rearward facing which means if you stand upright you're still hitting a large portion of the front head and if I remember correctly traps...

Also, my delts have come a long long way from last year (just my opinion though) and I attribute that to heavy laterals and MOST OF ALL shoulder width upright rows. They're an exercise you really need to be careful with (keeping the weight close to your body and never raising the bar above the lower portion of your sternum) but they've given me my best results - especially when I moved my hands out further....

(and I too believe behind the neck is WAY too risky so beware)

[toolwtf]

foghat. You only bring your upright rows up to your chest? Hmm. This is one of my favorite exercises and I usually go all the way up to my chin. I'll have to try this.

[Mr incredible]

Crikey, well all I can say is I've been doing upright rows (every other week alternated with shrugs) all the way up to my chin if possible and full range press behind the neck for as long as I can remember. I have no problems except some rotor cuff stiffness but everyone I know gets that.

I think as long as you perform these excercises in a controlled fashion they're the best shoulder excercises out there and there isn't any weight training excercise that I don't do.

[coffee-guy]

It doesn't matter if you do it controlled or not - it isn't smart or safe to put your joints in a position that they aren't supposed to be in...

Research internal and external shoulder joint rotation and you'll see why you shouldn't do some of these exercises - pullups/pulldowns too low on the chest (internal) or behind the neck (external), presses behind the neck (external) or allowing your upper arm to fall below the parallel plane in any shoulder press movement (extreme exposure to joint subluxation), upright rows where the weight comes above the lower portion of the sternum or allowing the bar/weight to get more than an inch away from your body etc (I can't recall but it's either internal or external exposure) - the list is not exhausitive as these seem to be the most dangerous to the shoulder joint as far as I can remember but maybe SC can chime in if I've missed anything....

[redsquirrel]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

why you so down on yourself lately? by the way you talk, you might think you are some slob. you look great, now stop your bitching and get to work!

Well, we are own worst critics, aren't we?....

I'm just trying to position myself because you all know me- I PLAY TO WIN!!! I'm realistic in what my weaker parts are, and I'm simply trying to be proactive. :nerdnew:

[iceberg]

I posted a little advice on another thread, but realize it should be here. I mentioned the best way to make the waiste look smaller is to make the shoulders wider, as well as the outer sweep of your quads.

FYI, I know I do not stop by here as often as I should, but I don't have a lot of time to get on these boards, and I spend most of that time on another one, that I joined when it began.

Just so you know, I am currently working with a BB coach who trains pro-BBers. I am just lucky that he lives in my area, and I have a mutual friend who hooked me up with him. He has really helped me out alot. Since I have been working with him, I have put on 15 lbs of LBM in 9 months and now weigh 250 lbs at 6-8% BF. He knows his stuff:

Here is my shoulder day workout with some tips from coach:


Training routine for the week
Monday: Calves, Shoulders, Traps, Biceps
Tuesday: Abs, Quads
Wednesday: off
Thursday: Calves, Chest,Triceps
Friday: Abs, Hams, Back
Saturday: off, I will go in and do yoga to work on flexability
Sunday: off

Monday Workout
standing calves/ 4 sets/ 20 rep range
seated calves / 3 sets / 20 rep range
BB shoulder press / 4 sets / 10-12 reps
Rear delt machine / 4 sets / 10-12 reps
standing DB side delts / 3 sets / 10-12 reps
DB side delts on an incline bench / 3 sets / 15 reps
Smith rear traps-upright rows / 4 sets / 12-15 reps
Inc DB seated curls / 4 sets / 10-12 reps
BB curls / 4 sets / 10-12 reps
Machine curl(EZ) / 3 sets / 15 reps


Monday Tips on form:
Shoulders
Shoulder Press (BB, DB, or Machine)
Keep lower back up against the pad
Option to face the pad with no back support
Do not arch your back
This brings the chest into workout

Rear Delt Machine
Adjust seat so that arms are moving in the same plain as your shoulders
Wrist – Elbow – Shoulders should all be in the same plain

Side Delt (DB)
At the top of the movement your Wrist – Elbow – Shoulders should all be in the same plain
At the top of the movement have you hands tilted slightly forward like you are pouring water

Incline DB side delt
lay on your side on an incline bench (set at 45 degree angle) so that your knee is on the seat of the bench.
Start with the weight at your side and lift it until your arm is perpendicular to your body.
Remember good form for the wrist-elbow-shoulders alignment

Incline DB Curls
Elevate feet in front of you on a box with both feet touching each other
This allows you to curl the weight right next to your body
Keep palms facing forward throughout the movement
Stretch bicep at bottom of movement and always keep palms facing forward (even while one arm rests)
Do not curl wrists in at the top

BB Curls
Do not curl wrists in at the top
Hand placement is just slightly closer than shoulder width

[Mr incredible]

Originally Posted by fog_hat1981

It doesn't matter if you do it controlled or not - it isn't smart or safe to put your joints in a position that they aren't supposed to be in...

Research internal and external shoulder joint rotation and you'll see why you shouldn't do some of these exercises - pullups/pulldowns too low on the chest (internal) or behind the neck (external), presses behind the neck (external) or allowing your upper arm to fall below the parallel plane in any shoulder press movement (extreme exposure to joint subluxation), upright rows where the weight comes above the lower portion of the sternum or allowing the bar/weight to get more than an inch away from your body etc (I can't recall but it's either internal or external exposure) - the list is not exhausitive as these seem to be the most dangerous to the shoulder joint as far as I can remember but maybe SC can chime in if I've missed anything....

Thanks and sorry for swaying the thread, I'll give this some thought.