Ok Just a small vent

[Stonecold54]

My daughter went to a "Conditioning" camp this weekend. She is 12 and plays basketball. I popped in towards the end of the day today to watch them "train" I cringed and had to walk away from the door. I know I talk a lot about why explosive and sports training is crap but to watch it makes it even more obvious what a joke it is. I just feel bad for the athletes that buy into it and will end up getting hurt and never training properly. I had to laugh when he had this girl doing front squats (not a bad exercise if done properly). but he was trying to be all "coachy" and "bad". he was like yelling "thats it all the weight on your heels, explode up" haha. I watched this girl, EVERY TIME SHE SQUATTED HER HEELS CAME OFF THE FLOOR AT LEAST 3 inches!!!!! I was like like what the fuck are you looking at "coach". he was to busy yelling inspirational BS than to look at her form. Of course he had them "Attempting" clean and jerks and snactches and kettle ball crap and one arm dumbbell snatches...and OMG I had to walk away before I went in there to tell the 40-50 parents what a waste of money it was (me included, I though they were going to focus more on conditioning drills and BB skills).

Explosive lifting and plyometrics just seem to be a sport in themselves. athletes get good at them and I just don't see the process where it "transfers" to a sport, lol. It goes against all exercise principles and physics. Every one of those girls, all they were using was mometum to get a weight up, there was no muscle contraction, there was stretch reflex and that was IT.

made me think I should just come up with some BS program, call it sports training and reap a few thousand dollars per weekend of sucker parents who don't know any better.

[ROCKETW19]

Originally Posted by Stonecold54

My daughter went to a "Conditioning" camp this weekend. She is 12 and plays basketball. I popped in towards the end of the day today to watch them "train" I cringed and had to walk away from the door. I know I talk a lot about why explosive and sports training is crap but to watch it makes it even more obvious what a joke it is. I just feel bad for the athletes that buy into it and will end up getting hurt and never training properly. I had to laugh when he had this girl doing front squats (not a bad exercise if done properly). but he was trying to be all "coachy" and "bad". he was like yelling "thats it all the weight on your heels, explode up" haha. I watched this girl, EVERY TIME SHE SQUATTED HER HEELS CAME OFF THE FLOOR AT LEAST 3 inches!!!!! I was like like what the fuck are you looking at "coach". he was to busy yelling inspirational BS than to look at her form. Of course he had them "Attempting" clean and jerks and snactches and kettle ball crap and one arm dumbbell snatches...and OMG I had to walk away before I went in there to tell the 40-50 parents what a waste of money it was (me included, I though they were going to focus more on conditioning drills and BB skills).

Explosive lifting and plyometrics just seem to be a sport in themselves. athletes get good at them and I just don't see the process where it "transfers" to a sport, lol. It goes against all exercise principles and physics. Every one of those girls, all they were using was mometum to get a weight up, there was no muscle contraction, there was stretch reflex and that was IT.

made me think I should just come up with some BS program, call it sports training and reap a few thousand dollars per weekend of sucker parents who don't know any better.

Ha Ha I feel your pain bro, My kid 13yrs old plays softball and the conditioning they do is funny as hell they dont do anything right. I want to step in and show them how its done but I just sit back and know it at least better than texting her friends all day sitting on her ass.

[NewbieChris]

And you're letting your daughter stay in this training camp?

[Nekrawulf]

I agree that was a bad coach, but i fail to follow why you thing plyometrics and functional transition of energy does not apply to sports. Dont let one bad coach give you a poorly generalized idea of a system.

sport performance is generally based on an athletes ability to sustain the sporting activity across a broad time spectrum. Efficiency in movement is the single most important aspect of improving sport performance.

This means learning how to generate power from the hips outward towards the extremeties, with little deviation of transitional power.

Pull your daughter out of that "camp" immediately. you do not want that coach teaching her such technically intricate movements such as the Clean or KB snatch....

she will get hurt..


did i mention that coach is fucking clownshoes?

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by Stonecold54

made me think I should just come up with some BS program, call it sports training and reap a few thousand dollars per weekend of sucker parents who don't know any better.

What would you teach them? The fucked up deadlift?

Just jokes man, no harm intended.

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by NewbieChris

And you're letting your daughter stay in this training camp?

no it was as two day thing to get them "interested" in it. I will train her myself.

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by Nekrawulf

I agree that was a bad coach, but i fail to follow why you thing plyometrics and functional transition of energy does not apply to sports. Dont let one bad coach give you a poorly generalized idea of a system.

sport performance is generally based on an athletes ability to sustain the sporting activity across a broad time spectrum. Efficiency in movement is the single most important aspect of improving sport performance.

This means learning how to generate power from the hips outward towards the extremeties, with little deviation of transitional power.

Pull your daughter out of that "camp" immediately. you do not want that coach teaching her such technically intricate movements such as the Clean or KB snatch....

she will get hurt..


did i mention that coach is fucking clownshoes?

the SAID principle. Specific adaptations to imposed demands. Specific means specific, not close to or almost. if someone needs to "learn" how to generate power for a specific sport then they need to do that while playing the sport, you go to the gym to get stronger and healthier to transfer THAT to the sport you play, there is no "skill" transfer". specific is specific.

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by Nekrawulf

What would you teach them? The fucked up deadlift?

Just jokes man, no harm intended.

lol....fine I am gonna start pulling from the ground and see how hurt I get

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by Stonecold54

the SAID principle. Specific adaptations to imposed demands. Specific means specific, not close to or almost. if someone needs to "learn" how to generate power for a specific sport then they need to do that while playing the sport, you go to the gym to get stronger and healthier to transfer THAT to the sport you play, there is no "skill" transfer". specific is specific.

I disagree.

Movements such as the squat, push press, deadlift, and clean teach SPECIFIC mechanics that transfer into most if not all sports, and certainly into day to day life.

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by Nekrawulf

I disagree.

Movements such as the squat, push press, deadlift, and clean teach SPECIFIC mechanics that transfer into most if not all sports, and certainly into day to day life.

I don't do to many day to day things that involve a barbell. not trying to be coy, but specific is specific. if something is not exact than skill transfer does not exist.

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by Stonecold54

I don't do to many day to day things that involve a barbell. not trying to be coy, but specific is specific. if something is not exact than skill transfer does not exist.

Bio-mechanically speaking you do pick up objects off the ground, you do sit down, you do push items over your head.

A Barbell is but a tool to reach a specific biomechanical goal.

A load is a load. I dont care if its a barbell, kettlebell, sandbag or tree limb, or your own body.

[THE BOUNCER]

stonecold got owned.

I on the other hand dont even know what the fuck words like "biomechanical" or "deviation of transitional power" even mean.

[alwaysgrowing]

Originally Posted by Stonecold54

My daughter went to a "Conditioning" camp this weekend. She is 12 and plays basketball. I popped in towards the end of the day today to watch them "train" I cringed and had to walk away from the door. I know I talk a lot about why explosive and sports training is crap but to watch it makes it even more obvious what a joke it is. I just feel bad for the athletes that buy into it and will end up getting hurt and never training properly. I had to laugh when he had this girl doing front squats (not a bad exercise if done properly). but he was trying to be all "coachy" and "bad". he was like yelling "thats it all the weight on your heels, explode up" haha. I watched this girl, EVERY TIME SHE SQUATTED HER HEELS CAME OFF THE FLOOR AT LEAST 3 inches!!!!! I was like like what the fuck are you looking at "coach". he was to busy yelling inspirational BS than to look at her form. Of course he had them "Attempting" clean and jerks and snactches and kettle ball crap and one arm dumbbell snatches...and OMG I had to walk away before I went in there to tell the 40-50 parents what a waste of money it was (me included, I though they were going to focus more on conditioning drills and BB skills).

Explosive lifting and plyometrics just seem to be a sport in themselves. athletes get good at them and I just don't see the process where it "transfers" to a sport, lol. It goes against all exercise principles and physics. Every one of those girls, all they were using was mometum to get a weight up, there was no muscle contraction, there was stretch reflex and that was IT.

made me think I should just come up with some BS program, call it sports training and reap a few thousand dollars per weekend of sucker parents who don't know any better.

I can speak from experience, and explosive lifting and plyometrics do makes you a better athelte. I trained like this for goalkeeping during my soccer days. Jump squats, weighted jumps, frog leaps. It definitely helps. If done correctly. IT helps build strength, especially in the joint, without adding to much bulky muscle, which can slow down an athlete.

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by alwaysgrowing

I can speak from experience, and explosive lifting and plyometrics do makes you a better athelte. I trained like this for goalkeeping during my soccer days. Jump squats, weighted jumps, frog leaps. It definitely helps. If done correctly. IT helps build strength, especially in the joint, without adding to much bulky muscle, which can slow down an athlete.

did you do this by comparing it side by side to a properly conducted strength and health program that incorporates healthy and controlled lifting? i am not contesting it helps build some nominal amount of strenght but if THAT is the goal then there are far better ways to accomplish that then by breaking down the body using excessive forces on the joints. how did you measure this joint strength?

[Stonecold54]

Originally Posted by Nekrawulf

Bio-mechanically speaking you do pick up objects off the ground, you do sit down, you do push items over your head.

A Barbell is but a tool to reach a specific biomechanical goal.

A load is a load. I dont care if its a barbell, kettlebell, sandbag or tree limb, or your own body.

you are avoiding the issue specificity does not offer degrees of likeness.

PS-unless you are saying the SAID principle does not exist, then you could argue from there.

[alwaysgrowing]

Originally Posted by Stonecold54

did you do this by comparing it side by side to a properly conducted strength and health program that incorporates healthy and controlled lifting? i am not contesting it helps build some nominal amount of strenght but if THAT is the goal then there are far better ways to accomplish that then by breaking down the body using excessive forces on the joints. how did you measure this joint strength?

Without adding weight to my body, I increased my vertical leap, broad jump, and 40 time pretty significantly. If i remember correctly, i didn't add any weight. Sports are explosive in nature, train your body explosively, and you train for sports.

[Nekrawulf]

Originally Posted by Stonecold54

you are avoiding the issue specificity does not offer degrees of likeness.

PS-unless you are saying the SAID principle does not exist, then you could argue from there.

I dont train athletes using SAID. (dont even know wtf said is)

But plyometrics can help in just about every possible sport (even weightlifting as a sport)