Re: Ephedra & Clen up to contest time

[DS-COUSIN]

Can my lady use Ephedra 225mgs (100mg Ephedrine powder, 125mg Ephedra) and 1mg clen (Oxyflux) up to and on show day of her show (BB) middle-weight (125 1/2lbs-130lbs) <--I think that is the class. Her last show she came in at 129lbs. She wants to come in harder and dryer and will most likely come in at 126 or 127lbs.

She will also be using Aldactone 25mg tabs. for her diruetics.
day 1: 50mg
day 2: 75mg
day 3: 75mg
day 4: 50mg (judging dosage depending on look)
day 5: 50mg (same as day 4)
day 5 1/2: 5 hours before show, 25mg laysix if needed.

She is asking, because Ephedra seems to give her some energy she needs to get through this last 2.5 weeks and on stage.

Also, before you make a comment about how she should be on her herself, she's technology challenged, shy, and is sitting right next to me. I only say this, because everytime I ask a question for her, I get the "treatment."

Thanks for your help...

DS-COUSIN & DRAGONFLY

[figure_champ]

Red would be the expert but I've always dropped Clen the week before a show.

[redsquirrel]

Originally Posted by DS-COUSIN

Can my lady use Ephedra 225mgs (100mg Ephedrine powder, 125mg Ephedra) and 1mg clen (Oxyflux) up to and on show day of her show (BB) middle-weight (125 1/2lbs-130lbs) <--I think that is the class. Her last show she came in at 129lbs. She wants to come in harder and dryer and will most likely come in at 126 or 127lbs.

She will also be using Aldactone 25mg tabs. for her diruetics.
day 1: 50mg
day 2: 75mg
day 3: 75mg
day 4: 50mg (judging dosage depending on look)
day 5: 50mg (same as day 4)
day 5 1/2: 5 hours before show, 25mg laysix if needed.

She is asking, because Ephedra seems to give her some energy she needs to get through this last 2.5 weeks and on stage.

Also, before you make a comment about how she should be on her herself, she's technology challenged, shy, and is sitting right next to me. I only say this, because everytime I ask a question for her, I get the "treatment."

Thanks for your help...

DS-COUSIN & DRAGONFLY

In all honesty, to take those two together would be really hard on her body. If she likes the Ephedra, stick with that. I've never really heard of anyone taking them both at the same time....but FC is right- Clen should be dropped a week before show time; same goes for Ephedra.

I especially wouldn't use both it if she is going to take some diuretics. IF she did all of it, she could end up looking really flat on stage. Although the aldactone is a good choice because it is one of the safer diuretics, I only took it for Mon, Tues, and Wed. On Friday I took 1/2 a diazide in order to make weight....and another 1/2 before the morning show. My concern here is that she will really flatten out by taking the aldactone for 5 days. That's really the purpose of the last contest week prep....deplete, fill back out, and drain the water. Many have the misconception that diuretics solve all the problems, but if you cycle your water right, you shouldn't need diuretics. The catch with using too much of any diuretic is that it totally flattens you out.

If she really wants to come in harder and drier there are two factors that need to be considered for women. In order for women to come in harder, something like Nolvadex or Proviron will help accomplish that. However, I don't think she has enough time left for it to really make a difference. Secondly, the dry look has nothing to do with Ephedra or Clen, it has everything to do with water/sodium/carb manipulation the week of the show.

[DS-COUSIN]

Red,

thanks for the information. I really appreciate it. I agree that the Aldactone may not be needed for an entire week, but the problem for us is that all we have is Aldactone and 40mg Laysix, no access to Dyazide. I was thinking three to five days on Aldactone, and then 20mg laysix if she is not dropping the water about 5 hrs before morning judging.

The Novaldex is something I haven't heard of for women and will need to do some research. You are right, she doesn't have enough time. She has he water/sdoium/carb manipulation in order, but she wasn't as dry as needed, that's why I suggested the Aldactone. Maybe halfing the dosage until a couple days out and then reevaluate. The last thing I want to do is have her come in flat. She looked great at the Kumite Classic in Pittsburgh. I will try and attach a pic of her. Remember, this was an ALL NATURAL show..musclemania event.

this is her at 129lbs, we thought she could have come in at 127 or 126.

[redsquirrel]

[quote=DS-COUSIN]Red,

thanks for the information. I really appreciate it. I agree that the Aldactone may not be needed for an entire week, but the problem for us is that all we have is Aldactone and 40mg Laysix, no access to Dyazide. I was thinking three to five days on Aldactone, and then 20mg laysix if she is not dropping the water about 5 hrs before morning judging.

The Novaldex is something I haven't heard of for women and will need to do some research. You are right, she doesn't have enough time. She has he water/sdoium/carb manipulation in order, but she wasn't as dry as needed, that's why I suggested the Aldactone. Maybe halfing the dosage until a couple days out and then reevaluate. The last thing I want to do is have her come in flat. She looked great at the Kumite Classic in Pittsburgh. I will try and attach a pic of her. Remember, this was an ALL NATURAL show..musclemania event.

QUOTE]

Now, I'm not flaming you here. BUT, I'd like to take a look at her water/sodium/carb program. My main point is this: if she manipulates these things correctly, diuretics shouldn't even be needed. I think too often people think diuretics will cure all. Diuretics should be used if there is just a tad more water that just won't come off. If someone isn't lean enough, diuretics will dry them out a bit, but they won't make them look leaner.

As for the pic, for an all natural show she looks pretty good. But, I don't think it's so much a water factor in that pic. I think a couple more weeks of dieting would have helped.

All I'm saying is don't confuse dryness with leanness. Being dry doesn't make you leaner, so to speak. For the next show, she should absolutely do some Nolvadex and Proviron to help look harder and leaner. The purpose of these drugs is they block estrogen. Estrogen in a female's body makes it difficult to lose that extra BF that just won't let go.

[DS-COUSIN]

The show is August 6th. Her trainer does the water and I can't remember exactly what it is. I will try and get it and post. I have some Nolvadex 10mg tabs, what do you suggest? She could definitely do for another week or two of dieting last time and this time. This will be her second show back, since her previous shows nine years ago. She gets pinched for BF in the morning and I will log that on this post.

Thanks Red

[redsquirrel]

Originally Posted by DS-COUSIN

The show is August 6th. Her trainer does the water and I can't remember exactly what it is. I will try and get it and post. I have some Nolvadex 10mg tabs, what do you suggest? She could definitely do for another week or two of dieting last time and this time. This will be her second show back, since her previous shows nine years ago. She gets pinched for BF in the morning and I will log that on this post.

Thanks Red

You can try the Nolvadex. She can do 20mgs/ day up to the show. But, she has to be hitting the cardio as hard and not quit until Wednesday or even Thrusday before the show...This may be against what her trainer has her doing, but it should work- achieving a harder look on stage. She will have to taper off after the show. I'd say 10mgs/ EOD the 1st week, and 10mgs E3D for two weeks after. This will hopefully eliminate much rebound. Of course, when coming off a contest diet, you're always gonna have some sort of rebound. lol.

I'm really interested to see her last week prep that her trainer wrote out for her. There may be some changes that I could suggest that he/she jsut may not know about. If you will, please include the carb depletion/load and sodium depletion/load also

Yes- please post up her BF pinches, and of course how many pinches her trainer does. I'd also like to know: do you think she is carb sensitive? I mean, if she no carbs for a few days, and then carbs up, how does she look/feel?

[DS-COUSIN]

Her and her trainer will be passing on the Nolva. She pinched at 8.5% and the show is on Saturday. I still don't have her water, but should be getting it tomorrow. She will be taking Ephedra and Clen up until showtime (Tue-Wed Clen) (Thur-Sat Ephedra).

Aldactone: (This has been changed from before)
Today: 25mg
Day 2: 50mg
Day 3: 50mg
Day 4: 25 or 50mg
Day 5: 25mg
Day 5 1/2: If needed 20mg Laysix (40mg broken in 1/2)

That's what I have so far. I will try and post the water, sodium quantities tomorrow. Sorry it took so long, but I went to Mexico for a couple hours, then spent the rest of the time in LA at the Garment District (Yeah, I bought a whole bunch of shit! ).

Thanks Red...

[redsquirrel]

Originally Posted by DS-COUSIN

Her and her trainer will be passing on the Nolva. She pinched at 8.5% and the show is on Saturday. I still don't have her water, but should be getting it tomorrow. She will be taking Ephedra and Clen up until showtime (Tue-Wed Clen) (Thur-Sat Ephedra).

Aldactone: (This has been changed from before)
Today: 25mg
Day 2: 50mg
Day 3: 50mg
Day 4: 25 or 50mg
Day 5: 25mg
Day 5 1/2: If needed 20mg Laysix (40mg broken in 1/2)

That's what I have so far. I will try and post the water, sodium quantities tomorrow. Sorry it took so long, but I went to Mexico for a couple hours, then spent the rest of the time in LA at the Garment District (Yeah, I bought a whole bunch of shit! ).

Thanks Red...

Well, in all honesty, she probably should pass on the Nolva for this show just because she would probably not get good enough results in time. 8.5 is good, but for BBing it should still be about 1% lower. But, for future reference when she does want to come in harder, a Nolva/Proviron combo will be necessary.

I still think the diuretic schedule runs a high risk of flattening her out. Again, if her water and sodium is done right diuretics are really only necessary to get that last 1lb or so of water of the body.

[DS-COUSIN]

The BF% is lower than 8.5, I should have that number tomorrow by 7am?

I don't really have a choice on the diuretics, I just have influence on the amount, that's why I had her drop the dosage. Do you suggest something different for her diuretic schedule? I will have the water amount tonight; going to get it right now.

Thanks again Red..

[redsquirrel]

Originally Posted by DS-COUSIN

The BF% is lower than 8.5, I should have that number tomorrow by 7am?

I don't really have a choice on the diuretics, I just have influence on the amount, that's why I had her drop the dosage. Do you suggest something different for her diuretic schedule? I will have the water amount tonight; going to get it right now.

Thanks again Red..

Is the show this weekend??

In reference to the diuretics, as I said before, if she does her water right, diuretics should really only be used to shed those last couple lbs of water. There is a method to the madness here, and it has to do with proper manipulation of salt, carbs and water. The trick is to deplete w/ carbs for a few days and at the same time, greatly increasing salt intake. During these days doubling the body's water intake. You then taper the salt, decrease the water and increase carbs. Basically, this trick "tricks" the body into letting go off almost all water and diuretics are really only needed the day of the show.

The aldactone is a good choice, but she should really only be taking it yesterday, today and tomorrow; at 25mgs/day. So, if she is not doing something similar to what I described above, I would keep her aldactone dosage about the same.

Again, my only word of caution is that the high dosage she will be using, she runs a higher risk of flattening out if she didn't deplete/increase carbs right. Also, diuretics will dry her out, but they will not make her look hard. That's why I suggested the Nolvadex and Proviron for her next show. Those two together work really well together merely because they shut down her estrogen making it easier for her muscles to harden up and lose that last little bit of BF.

You're very welcome, and let us know how she does!

[DS-COUSIN]

I agree with you on the Nolva and the carb/salt manipulation, but I believe her trainer had her deplete salt and now she is carb loading,

Last two meals:

meal 1:

40 grams carb (sweet potato)
2.5 oz boiled in distilled water chicken breast

meal 2:

3-4 tablespoons low sodium peanut butter
4 oz top round steak (grilled)

She has had 50 mgs of Aldactone today (8am and 2pm) and looks hard, not flat. She still has a little water on her legs, but that should come off. She is not urinating as much as I would have hoped. She is at 125-126lbs as of 2hrs ago. I am thinking she will be at 124lbs by showtime.

[DS-COUSIN]

She's holding water, we dropped the peanut butter, she may have a bite of sweet potato (1 or 2 oz.).

She had just about a 1/2 gallon of water today.

As of 8:00pm, she weighs 126lbs.

[redsquirrel]

Originally Posted by DS-COUSIN

She's holding water, we dropped the peanut butter, she may have a bite of sweet potato (1 or 2 oz.).

She had just about a 1/2 gallon of water today.

As of 8:00pm, she weighs 126lbs.

Nope, she doesn't look flat.

The peanut butter would not have made her hold water. In fact, it has the fats in it, and with the carbs would have helped fill her out.

If she is no urinating, she is holding water. So, it looks like the Lasix may be needed. But, start her out at a half of Lasix so as to not flatten her out.

What show is she doing?

[DS-COUSIN]

Originally Posted by redsquirrel

Nope, she doesn't look flat.

The peanut butter would not have made her hold water. In fact, it has the fats in it, and with the carbs would have helped fill her out.

If she is no urinating, she is holding water. So, it looks like the Lasix may be needed. But, start her out at a half of Lasix so as to not flatten her out.

What show is she doing?

Red:

She did the San Jose Body Building 25th Anniversery event. She took first in Master's Figure 45 and over, but didn't get to compete in the overall due to registering for the wrong class. She should have entered in 35-44, the NPC rep for this region said she would have taken the overall if she would have registered for the right class, even the open figure (18-34yr olds). The other two judges (Evergreen/Ironman promoter from Washington) said the same thing and fought to get her in the overall, but to no avail. We are not happy about that, but that was the goal. On the other hand, you can't poo-poo TWO 1st place finishes.

That's right, she took 1st in the Light-weight division, but lost (second) in the overall in BB. She was on stage at 123.5lbs. The middle weight took the overall, her name was Marcia, but looked like her name should be Mark...hehehe. The middle weight looked great too.

FYI: The pose down with Kris Dim, Ronnie Coleman, and Gunter was incredible. I got my picture with Ronnie Coleman, Lee Haney, and my buddy Flex Wheeler. Flex is getting more humble the longer he is out of the competing ranks. We all do martial arts and he seems to be more mellowed out because of it...good times.

Thanks again Red...

I will put the diruetic schedule so you can see what we did later..

[DS-COUSIN]

RED,

Hey you. Could you give me a schedule on the Nolvadex for my lady. We talked about her coming in harder and leaner. A PM is fine with me too. I will answer any questions you have. Thanks..

DS

[redsquirrel]

Are you planning to run any Proviron?

Is she dieting now? If so, how many weeks out is she?

[DS-COUSIN]

Originally Posted by redsquirrel

Are you planning to run any Proviron?

Is she dieting now? If so, how many weeks out is she?

dieting now, pre-season, like what you would eat 12 weeks out from a show as her regular meals for another 2weeks, then changing meals. She just did a show, Junior Nationals USA. She is doing the Chicago show in June, believe it is June 16 or 17th. She is already pretty low in body fat now.

No Proviron to run.

[redsquirrel]

Well first of all, being this close to Jr Nationals, her shouldn't be what a diet is at 12 weeks out, nor should she be eating similar to that of a pre-season diet...especially if she's going to be eating this way for the next 2 weeks. This is crunch time. Although you think her BF is "pretty low" right now, doesn't mean it's low enough....Technically, she has about 4-5 weeks to diet. Jr Nat's is one of the toughest shows around.

I really need a hard number for her BF in order to give you a decent Nolvadex schedule.

On a side note- what show is the Jr Nationals USA? Is that NPC federation?