Recovery enhancement?

[OhHannah]

Female, 38, non competitor, started lifting about four years ago, off for nearly a year due to a back injury, got medically cleared a few months ago to go back to the weights. Primary goal is to put on more muscle and increase functional strength. Not a competitor, not interested in "figure". Could stand to lose a few more pounds for better definition, but it's not the primary goal by any means.

Been mostly natural with a brief dip into prohormones at low doses that didn't produce too much in the way of gains (or sides either). What I'm looking for now is a rational chemical assistance regimen that can help with more rapid recovery so that I can get more intense workouts. My body just isn't recovering like it used to from the strains and pulls and bumps of training.

My trainer suggested Deca. If I used this, I'd probably start with 30mg on a 10-14 day interval since this drug takes 14-16 days to work its way out of the system. A shorter acting nandrolone (durabolin) is also a thought. I've thought about Anavar as a first cycle, but am not sure how it will meet my needs in terms of improving my physical recovery time. As nice as it would be to just bulk up and harden, I'm mainly after chemical assistance with minor soft tissue injury recovery. Strained ligaments, tendons, etc.

Have the diet and supplements dialed in pretty tight already, just added Cissus to the glucosamine/MSM routine to see if it helps.

Thanks in advance for suggestions. I like kicking my own ass in the gym and kicking it really, really hard, and my aging body just isn't cooperating any more. Treacherous body.

[FitnessBrat]

First off, welcome to SM

I don't have experience with Deca, and wouldn't take anything that "harsh" as a female, but maybe some others can chime in and help.

[OhHannah]

There is some good data supporting both safety and moderate, keepable gains in females on nandrolone at the 30mg/14d interval. However what I'm looking for is primarily recovery assistance, and the study doesn't really touch on that subject especially at that low dose level.

[THE BOUNCER]

Hey OhHannah, great first post. You sound like you have a pretty good knowledge on training, diet, and steroids.

If you haven't already, check out this profile. Deca Durabolin (Nandrolone Decanoate)

As a man I don't want to give out to much advice on the subject because I know women can react very differently. My main concern would be the side effects. You seem to be starting out on a pretty low dose so that is good.

Deca is definitely great for joints, strains etc.. I may be running some myself next cycle for that reason.

I have sent a pm to redsquirrel, (our resident female mod competitor). She should be along here soon. She will tell you everything you need to know.

[OhHannah]

Thank you. Among the rational AAS choices for females, would you say that Deca-Durabolin would be the best choice for enhanced recovery? Would the shorter acting form (Durabolin alone) have the same effect on recovery?

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by OhHannah

Thank you. Among the rational AAS choices for females, would you say that Deca-Durabolin would be the best choice for enhanced recovery? Would the shorter acting form (Durabolin alone) have the same effect on recovery?

I think the absolute best thing for recovery would be HGH. That however is expensive and increasingly harder to get. I really don't know to much about Durabolin so I really cant say. I have known girls that ran low dose Deca for the reasons you mentioned with great results. Just make sure to start at the absolute lowest dose in case your body is sensitive to its side effect.

[OhHannah]

Yep. Having some medical background, though in an entirely different field, I do not suffer from the "if 20mg is good, then 200mg must be ten times better" syndrome. Titrating drug doses to effect - slowly and carefully - is the only reasonable way to use powerful chemicals to meddle with your personal biochemistry in ways that are potentially damaging and/or irreversible. It's also important to have a reliable way to observe and measure the effects.

One of the reasons that steroids have such a bad reputation and are legally controlled substances is that a lot of people do seem to suffer from the abovementioned syndrome. When the the predictable bad things happen to them as a result of their monkeying around with tools they have not bothered to learn how to use properly, the people who are capable of using those same tools responsibly get blamed and penalized. Which is kind of like telling adults that they can't buy scissors any more because some stupid kids ran with them and put their eyes out. But there's our government for ya, protecting good citizens from themselves whether they like it or not.

Hgh is off my list because of the potential association with neoplasia. I'm in a high enough risk category that I already crossed that one off.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by OhHannah

Yep. Having some medical background, though in an entirely different field, I do not suffer from the "if 20mg is good, then 200mg must be ten times better" syndrome. Titrating drug doses to effect - slowly and carefully - is the only reasonable way to use powerful chemicals to meddle with your personal biochemistry in ways that are potentially damaging and/or irreversible. It's also important to have a reliable way to observe and measure the effects.

One of the reasons that steroids have such a bad reputation and are legally controlled substances is that a lot of people do seem to suffer from the abovementioned syndrome. When the the predictable bad things happen to them as a result of their monkeying around with tools they have not bothered to learn how to use properly, the people who are capable of using those same tools responsibly get blamed and penalized. Which is kind of like telling adults that they can't buy scissors any more because some stupid kids ran with them and put their eyes out. But there's our government for ya, protecting good citizens from themselves whether they like it or not.

Hgh is off my list because of the potential association with neoplasia. I'm in a high enough risk category that I already crossed that one off.

I think I am in love! haha. I hope you stick around. This board needs more people like you. What is your medical background if I may ask?

[OhHannah]

Thank you muchly for the welcome and the kind words. Feel free to PM with questions I don't feel comfortable answering on the public side of the board.

[redsquirrel]

First off- Nice to have you! It's great to have a knowledgeable female around...

May I ask, what exactly happened to your back? Also, in terms of recovery, are you moreso referring to your specific injury, or something to jump start muscle gain where atrophy may have been a factor previously?

If you are looking to Deca to help with the specific injury, I'm not sure I totally agree that Deca is the best place to start. While it can produce decent results in females at low doses, I'm not convinced you have to go down that road just yet.

You also have been out of the gym for a year, so I would really concentrate on getting your body back to where it was previous to injury. If you push your body too hard too soon, (even with the assistance of AAS) it can only wreak havoc on your nervous system, and hinder gains that much more. More importantly, it can also make you more susceptible to injury post cycle if your strength isn't where it needed to be PRE cycle. This is how so many women AND men hurt themselves in the gym. They get off a cycle, and think their strength is where it was when they were on cycle, and tear a pec or a quad. I strongly advise you to get your strength back up naturally for at least 2-3 months.

GH would definitely be your best bet in terms of recovery help due to age. But, if that's not an option, I would definitely start w/ Anavar first. Just because, if you can avoid going to a harsher and stronger drug, why take the chance? If you can get the results you want with Anavar with the lowest risk of sides, then I would start with that.

You seem to be concerned with your muscle recovery & gains as well. If this is a factor, are you having any type of PWO shake? Also, in terms of recovery, what type of turnaround time are you looking at? For example, do you want to do legs on Monday, and then again on Wednesday, and don't have the strength to do them, or you're still sore? I'm simply trying to understand your specific goal to better assist you.

[OhHannah]

Originally Posted by redsquirrel

May I ask, what exactly happened to your back? Also, in terms of recovery, are you moreso referring to your specific injury, or something to jump start muscle gain where atrophy may have been a factor previously?

Slipped a disc, did manage to recover from that and get a doctor's clearance to get back into lifting. What's bugging me is that I seem to be straining joints, tendons and muscles more often than I used to, even as a novice. I suspect it may just be that villain Time catching up to me.

I strongly advise you to get your strength back up naturally for at least 2-3 months.

Good advice; been doing exactly that and will continue doing it.

GH would definitely be your best bet in terms of recovery help due to age. But, if that's not an option, I would definitely start w/ Anavar first. Just because, if you can avoid going to a harsher and stronger drug, why take the chance? If you can get the results you want with Anavar with the lowest risk of sides, then I would start with that.

Liver toxicity via the oral route concerns me. Anecdotally I've heard that nandrolone provides more "joint grease" and recovery assistance than Anavar, but I'll need to do some more research.

You seem to be concerned with your muscle recovery & gains as well. If this is a factor, are you having any type of PWO shake? Also, in terms of recovery, what type of turnaround time are you looking at? For example, do you want to do legs on Monday, and then again on Wednesday, and don't have the strength to do them, or you're still sore? I'm simply trying to understand your specific goal to better assist you.

I have my macronutrient timing dialed in pretty well. I eat clean and usually pretty big, 5-6 small meals heavy on the protein, cycling carbs around from low glycemic index sources as slow fuel and high-GI sources (dextrose and maltodextrin primarily) immediately PWO. My staples are tuna, steamed chicken breasts, lean red meat, cottage cheese, protein shakes, raw oats, sweet potatoes and one metric fuckton of raw and cooked vegetables.

Workouts are generally 3X weekly with some random cardio in between, on a M-W-F schedule with the weekends as rest days where I keep protein high but drop the carbs and raise the healthy fats some.

[Shibby]

Originally Posted by OhHannah

Anecdotally I've heard that nandrolone provides more "joint grease" and recovery assistance than Anavar, but I'll need to do some more research.
.

One thing to research a little more about deca that a previous member stated ( I researched it some and found info to back up his statement, but couldn't really find definitive info either way) is that Deca doesn't "lube" the joints. It increases the cologen synthesis and acts more like a corticosteroid to reduce or remove the pain depending on the severity.

[THE BOUNCER]

Originally Posted by Shibby

One thing to research a little more about deca that a previous member stated ( I researched it some and found info to back up his statement, but couldn't really find definitive info either way) is that Deca doesn't "lube" the joints. It increases the cologen synthesis and acts more like a corticosteroid to reduce or remove the pain depending on the severity.

i had never heard that shibby. interesting.

[Shibby]

Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER

i had never heard that shibby. interesting.

It was either spidey or skyefire. He even went onto say that increased fluid in the joints would cause more pain. I knew about inflammation of the joints from my studies in athletic training and found that to be true with injuries. I also researched inflammation (increase in fluid to protect the joint) from meniscus damage and all of it displaces the joint and function also putting more stress on the ligaments. There is also some other info I found, but again nothing stating specifically to deca and joints other than it relieves the pain.

[OhHannah]

Originally Posted by Shibby

Deca doesn't "lube" the joints. It increases the cologen synthesis and acts more like a corticosteroid to reduce or remove the pain depending on the severity.

That would indeed be a much more precise way to say "joint grease".

Thanks for removing the confusion because I wasn't being very precise there. I'm definitely not looking for increased synovial fluid, which the expression certainly could have been read as referring to. Collagen synthesis and anti-inflammatory corticosteroid-like effects is the goal here.

[OhHannah]

Heh heh, made you look.

Poking through some medical protocol, I find a therapeutic dose of 25-30mg for nandrolone in genetic females on a 21 day interval. The medical profession tends to err on the side of using the lowest dose that will achieve the desired effect, and there are some awfully good reasons for that. Titrating upward is certainly possible if a drug is well tolerated, but titrating downward in case of undesired side effects is not possible, at least not rapidly, with a drug with this kind of clearance.

There are excellent arguments for the effectiveness and safety of using supraphysiological doses of anabolic and androgenic hormones. But I'm thinking it's a good idea to be ramping up to there v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y. So 25 mg it shall be to start with, and close observation for 21 days.