Newbie needs advice

[xtreem-chic]

Well I have acquired alot of info from this site and I am so pleased with how well knowledged everyone on this site is. I am not totally new to nutrition and working out, but I am on a mission to fine tune my body and achieve my goals. I am at a total loss when it comes to supplements though. I want to keep it as natural as possible, I have had a "friend" recommend that I take finaplix-h or component-th, but I really don't see the need to go that far. I would like to try to acheive my goals through more natural supplements. My main question is what do you recommend I take and when. I always seem to take supps by the directions, and to no avail I really don't see any great results from them. I am currently taking Ultra Mega w/o Iron, L-Carnitine. Aloe Vera (liquid capsules), and Calcium Citrate. I have dabbled with Hydroxicut, Xenadrine, and Ripped Fuel X-treme....not to impressed with any of them. I have a tendency to retain water when I take the Hydroxi and Xena, and I saw no results from the Ripped Fuel. I guess I have given up hope on anything related to it. I noticed on several other forums that many of you recommend Green Tea, I am curious as to how you utilize it. When do you take it, how much, how long, etc.
My current stats are 5'10", 176lbs approximately 23-26% BF and 26 years old. I would love to achieve a BF of about 10% and weigh around 145-150. I know that my weight is not the key component, so I am not as concerned about that.
I would love any advice you have to offer regarding workout techniques, nutrition, and of course supplements. I am serious about finding happiness in my body.....please help....thanks so much!!!!!

[sana]

first of all, welcome to SM. stick around and read up. we're all here to help each other get to our goals.

secondly, in order for us to help you better, in addition to knowing what you have tried in terms of supplements, let's talk about the basics of your training and diet. meaning that regardless of how many different items you try, the key to your goals will always be grounded in a good solid training program and diet. so tell us a little about what you're doing in the gym and maybe list for us an example of how you're eating (a regular day's food intake would be good).

Originally posted by xtreem-chic
I have had a "friend" recommend that I take finaplix-h or component-th, but I really don't see the need to go that far.

thirdly - i am HAPPY you chose not to listen to your friend. it is often times when the most well intentioned men give women recommendations about anabolics who end up causing irreversible side effects to be experienced by women. the compound that your friend recommended is trenbolone acetate and is not for the inexperienced AAS user (IMHO even for men). i'm not sure if you have any interest in anabolics, but - as a woman, it is most important to realize that you need to get real life advice from other women who have "been there, done that" in order to understand the different effects of different compounds on a woman's physiology. stick around, ask as many questions as you have.

but i will circle back to my second point. regardless of what supplements are available to you, or even what supplements you are trying, a solid diet and training program will be the best keys to your success.

again, welcome to SM

[Aurora]

Well said Sana. All these supps are just fancy "extras" which can be nice once everything else is in place. But Im just going to echo sana by saying first we need to see what your diet and training looks like and go from there. Green Tea is just supposed to speed up your metabolism a little bit, but this ingredient is also found in the thermos you tried. If it didnt work for you like that, it probubly wont do much on its own either. The most important supplements are protien and a multi vitamin. Most of your results will come from work in the kitchen and in the gym.

[redsquirrel]

We gotta have some more 411, girl!! We need cardio, diet, and weight training regimens!!!

[xtreem-chic]

Well thanks so much for responding so quickly. Now to answer your questions....
I used to be very religious about my diet, calculating every calorie and having excellent meal preparation. I recently switched shifts at work and I am slowly trying to adjust to eating in the middle of the night. It is not easy b/c I am not always hungry, but I am trying to start forcing myself to eat more.
As for a typical day (which there really hasn't been one, but I will give you my day as of yesterday)


500-600 pm- Pilates
630 pm- Light Caesar salad with about 5 oz of Chicken
3 small bites of Le Carb Vanilla Ice cream
1200 am- 20 oz coffee w/ cream and sugar
5 oz of chicken and approx 1 cup of broccoli
245 am- Light n' Fit strawberry/banana yogurt
2 slices of Light String Cheese
4 slices of Turkey
530 am- 1/3 cup Oatmeal
1 scoop (Isopure) Protein shake w/ water
730 am- 1 slice of low carb bread w/ approx 1-2 tbs Jif reduced
fat peanut butter.
830-945-10 min cardio
40 min leg workout
10 min cardio
1015am- 1 fat free waffle with minimal peanut butter

That was my day. I usually do more cardio, but after doing legs I try not to kill myself. My main source of cardio is incline walking. I switch it up by varying the speed and incline every minute or so. I also will do intervals of running/walking.
I have not set out a workout pattern yet. I just signed on with Gold's two day s ago, so I am trying to get acclimated with their facilities.
My old routine was
Monday-legs-abs
Tues-chest/bi's
Weds- Shoulders/abs
Thurs-Legs/abs
Fri-Back/tris
each day approx 30 min of cardio
I was lifting pretty heavy for a while and then decided I should try going light and doing higher reps. I have not found a happy medium as to what my body responds best to. I can say that I have a tendency to acquire more injuries when I am going heavy. Maybe that is what convinced me to go light fo a while. Not really sure which way is most beneficial.

I have the ability to get to the gym twice a day and I would really like to figure out the best way to maximize my time. If I don't really have to go twice a day it would be nice (smiles)

As far as today goes, I just got up about 630 pm so far I have had approx 5 oz of steak and 1-1 1/2 cups spinach.
I am to tired to head to the gym for another round of cardio, plus I couldn't wait to eat dinner (b/fast). I don't like to eat to soon, or at all, before I workout.

I hope that I have given you the info you needed. I really appreciate any insight you can give me. The guy that is showing me around the gym is a wealth of info (but it all comes at a fee) He just explained to me today the great importance of stretching and how it can help make you stronger when your muscles are lined up and "firing" in the right ways. I am really abd about stretching, I need to try and tell myself that it is ok to go into the gym and actually warm up and then stretch out for 10 minutes or so. Maybe then I would feel a little bit better. I tend to stretch out (half ass) between sets. Other than that I am not sure what other info you need.

Thank you again so much for all your help and advice regarding taking AAS....I really hope it never comes to that. My friend means well. but he has been injecting since he was about 16 and I can say he is very much so addicted to all sorts of "supplements". It is almost sad at times, but that is the life he chooses to live and I am not hear to judge him for that. Anyways, thanks!!!!!

[sana]

from my perspective on your diet, it looks as if you're eating 5 meals a day? what's the protein/carb/fat breakdown if you counted that out?

as far as what i think i can offer for advice:

1. calculate your BMR and see how many calories you are eating below your maintenance amount. refer to this thread click me for details on how to calculate your bmr. then since it looks like your goal is to lose weight, i would follow the tips in there. generally, you want to eat about 500 cals below your maintenance calories to lose weight. you're also doing A LOT of cardio.... i don't know if you need that much, you might be burning muscle away while you're doing this.

2. i see that you use peanut butter in your diet - i would change that from fat free jif to natural PB... yes it's got fats, but it's better than jif - the fat free jif basically substitutes the fat with sugar, and so it kinda defeats the purpose of you eating the low carb bread....

3. if you're incurring injuries from lifting heavy, it might be due to the lack of form or inadequate stretching before starting the exercise. regardless of heavy or light, you should always insure that you have your form perfected. i would say that you shouldn't shy away from lifting heavy - just make sure that your form is right and someone is there to spot you.

4. i'm not sure how long you've been trying to change your body composition, but it sounds like you've made quite a dedicated committment to it. but remember, this isn't a sprint, it's not about losing the most in the shortest amount of time. the slow changes you see in your body as you change your lifestyle are the ones that you will keep the longest

[redsquirrel]

Originally posted by xtreem-chic
Well thanks so much for responding so quickly. Now to answer your questions....
I used to be very religious about my diet, calculating every calorie and having excellent meal preparation. I recently switched shifts at work and I am slowly trying to adjust to eating in the middle of the night. It is not easy b/c I am not always hungry, but I am trying to start forcing myself to eat more.
As for a typical day (which there really hasn't been one, but I will give you my day as of yesterday)


500-600 pm- Pilates
630 pm- Light Caesar salad with about 5 oz of Chicken
3 small bites of Le Carb Vanilla Ice cream
1200 am- 20 oz coffee w/ cream and sugar
5 oz of chicken and approx 1 cup of broccoli
245 am- Light n' Fit strawberry/banana yogurt
2 slices of Light String Cheese
4 slices of Turkey
530 am- 1/3 cup Oatmeal
1 scoop (Isopure) Protein shake w/ water
730 am- 1 slice of low carb bread w/ approx 1-2 tbs Jif reduced
fat peanut butter.
830-945-10 min cardio
40 min leg workout
10 min cardio
1015am- 1 fat free waffle with minimal peanut butter

That was my day. I usually do more cardio, but after doing legs I try not to kill myself. My main source of cardio is incline walking. I switch it up by varying the speed and incline every minute or so. I also will do intervals of running/walking.
I have not set out a workout pattern yet. I just signed on with Gold's two day s ago, so I am trying to get acclimated with their facilities.
My old routine was
Monday-legs-abs
Tues-chest/bi's
Weds- Shoulders/abs
Thurs-Legs/abs
Fri-Back/tris
each day approx 30 min of cardio
I was lifting pretty heavy for a while and then decided I should try going light and doing higher reps. I have not found a happy medium as to what my body responds best to. I can say that I have a tendency to acquire more injuries when I am going heavy. Maybe that is what convinced me to go light fo a while. Not really sure which way is most beneficial.

I have the ability to get to the gym twice a day and I would really like to figure out the best way to maximize my time. If I don't really have to go twice a day it would be nice (smiles)

As far as today goes, I just got up about 630 pm so far I have had approx 5 oz of steak and 1-1 1/2 cups spinach.
I am to tired to head to the gym for another round of cardio, plus I couldn't wait to eat dinner (b/fast). I don't like to eat to soon, or at all, before I workout.

I hope that I have given you the info you needed. I really appreciate any insight you can give me. The guy that is showing me around the gym is a wealth of info (but it all comes at a fee) He just explained to me today the great importance of stretching and how it can help make you stronger when your muscles are lined up and "firing" in the right ways. I am really abd about stretching, I need to try and tell myself that it is ok to go into the gym and actually warm up and then stretch out for 10 minutes or so. Maybe then I would feel a little bit better. I tend to stretch out (half ass) between sets. Other than that I am not sure what other info you need.

Thank you again so much for all your help and advice regarding taking AAS....I really hope it never comes to that. My friend means well. but he has been injecting since he was about 16 and I can say he is very much so addicted to all sorts of "supplements". It is almost sad at times, but that is the life he chooses to live and I am not hear to judge him for that. Anyways, thanks!!!!!

Ok...here are just some initial suggestions...

Eliminate all dairy and breads from your diet first off. Dairy, yes can be low in fat, and a decent source of protein..BUT in the end, it does more harm than good because of the sugars in dairy..cheese, milk, yogurt, all of it...dump it. The gluten in bread is not good for the digestive system and takes longer to digest.

@ your first meal,.. replace the ceaser dressing with a balsamic vinaigrette. ,up the chicken to 6oz. NO ICE CREAM

@ your 2nd meal.. eat a 4oz sweet potato with the 6oz chicken and add 1c to the broccoli

@ your 3rd meal..ditch all the dairy and replace it with a 2 scoop protein shake w/ 4 strawberries...You'll probably want to switch this meal with your 2nd.

@ your 4th meal...same as meal #2 (shake)

@ your 5th meal..6oz of lean red meat, 3/4c. brown rice and 2c. of green veggies

@ your 6th meal...try a can of tuna w/ 1tsp of low fat mayo.


One thing to keep in mind: YOU MUST EAT FAT IN ORDER TO LOSE FAT. Healthy fats like those found in lean red meat, fish, olive, peanut and flax oils will help you lose BF. In order to build more muscle, you MUST eat enough protein to maintain your workouts. Otherwise you will work harder for the same result you could have gotten by eating more protein. This was just a skeleton, but at a minumum you need to be eating AT LEAST 180-200 grams of protein. What I gave you puts you at about 240gms.

[Liftingchic]

Great info in here.. props for the good info..

[rubberduckyo]

The diet info posted is dead on. Excellent advice.

I only see two other things I'd draw attention to.

#1 You're working legs twice a week. I used to do the same myself and can attest that dropping that down to once a week brought fantastic strength gains for me.

#2 You're working chest/bis and back/tris. I'd switch that up to Chest / tris and back / bis. You're tris are largely involved when working your chest as well as bis being involved in working your back. Pairing the way you are now you are essentially working bis and tris twice a week.

That's just my .02 and as I mentioned before I used to be the queen of over training. (see my post in the split thread. lol) Recently made the change to working each muscle group once a week and am making great progress this way.

Best wishes for you in your efforts, girly. You seem to be very dedicated.

[Liftingchic]

i will have to agree with the back/bi and chest/tri... but i don't agree with the leg thing.. i work my calves twice a week.. but not everything twice a week...

[rubberduckyo]

Originally posted by Liftingchic
i will have to agree with the back/bi and chest/tri... but i don't agree with the leg thing.. i work my calves twice a week.. but not everything twice a week...

I'll say your calves are rocking! But why twice a week? What are you doing for calves? Mine are so shot when I'm done I NEED a week to recover them.

Are you working legs twice a week on a whole? Or just your calves?

[trip]

Kudos to everyone on this thread, it's excellent help advice all around, just a great thread.

[xtreem-chic]

well thank you all so much for you wealth of knowledge. I am so glad I stumbled across this site.
Ok onto the questions/answers.....You said I am doing to much cardio, what do you recommend? and when do you feel it is more beneficial, before or after? I have tried both ways and each has its perks and down falls. What type of cardio do you think is the best? I know that circuit training is very good, but do you recommend anything else?

Now I am confused about one thing, dairy???? I read in my muscle fitness hers magazine that is essential to eat dairy in order to lose weight.....I never really used to, aside from an occassional slice of fat free cheese, I just relied on my supplements. Then about two weeks ago I started drinking fat free milk and low fat dairy....I am confused???

I totally agree with you on my training split. I changed it thinking the "more is better" theory would kick in. I guess in all reality less is better, just more intense. I am curious as to what you prefer to do for each body part. When it came time to go to the gym I would just do whatever I felt like doing at the time for that particular body part, I really had no set exercise routine. (trying to keep the boredom factor down) Do you think it is more beneficial to have a set routine for say 6 weeks at a time and then change up exercises?
I know that this is a slow journey. I have been on it for over two years and the progress is slow, but hopefully now that I have found so much useful info I will be moving along a little bit quicker. I would love nothing more than to be about 145-150 and have a BF of about 8-10%. I just wish that was attainable. I am staying positive that if I push hard enough it will happen.


One last thing, this is kind of embarassing but it is reality for many females, I have pitting (I won't call it cellulite yet, it is more of a slight rippling in my skin) on my legs. I have noticed that when I flex my muscle right above my knee (not sure of the name. sorry) that it gets worse. Why is that? and do you think it will continue to get worse the more I shape my muscles? I would give anything to get rid of it (it is in several spots on my legs, unfortunately) Any suggestions or comments?????


Thank you all so much for your help and I will keep you posted on my slow progress...LOL

[xtreem-chic]

where did everybody go?????

[rubberduckyo]

Still here, girly. Sorry for the slow reply.

As for the cardio I've always believed that doing it after your lifting was best. Your glycogen stores have hopefully been depleted leaving your body no choice but to burn fat as fuel. I stick to the treadmill mostly. No need to kill yourself. Get your heart rate between 120 - 140 bpm and keep it there. My cardio consists of a 20 minute session 3 x week. But I am trying to add mass right now. If you're wanting to drop body fat you may want to increase that time to 45 minutes.

As for switching up your routines often I say go for it. Nothing worse than a stale routine. Your muscles adapt to it and before long it's boring! The only constant to my splits are the days I train each part and that I do 5 sets of 6 different movements on each of those days. The movements themselves are always changing. I think it stimulates growth by constantly hitting different muscles.

For example: Today was leg day. The only movements I do every leg day are squats, standing calf raises and SL deads. Added hack squats, leg curls and seated calf raises. Last week it was squats, SL deads, standing calf raises, leg extensions, leg presses and leg curls. Not a big change. Just mix it up a bit.

I'd reconsider your goals as far as bf% is concerned, hun. 8 - 10% is awfully low unless your goal is to compete. To each there own and we all have different goals. A goal of 14% is more realistic imo.

As far as the "pitted" appearance you're referring to, I have not experienced this. I think we all can relate to that little stubborn pudge that comes between the glute and ham. BIG pain to try and get rid of. Don't let this discourage you. I don't think it's related to an increase in bf.

Now. Round about circle back to your dairy question. I'm not ignoring it, just still researching it. I'll get back to ya on it if no-one else clears it up for ya.

Hope this helps.

[redsquirrel]

Dairy IMO, is NOT beneficial for weight loss. For reasons mentioned above, 1) dairy has carbs...which would be ok if they were complex carbs. But they are not. They are processed as simple carbs, which is not what is optimum for weight loss. Your insulin will be spiked more and you will be hungry faster. 2) Dairy causes bloating and water retention. When I stopped eating dairy, 2 weeks later I looked more tight and leaner due to less water. I used to think the same as you. I now just follow a different philosophy. My husband trains females and males for some of our regional shows and he has never told someone to eat dairy..(other than whipping cream) in order to lose BF. Try it both ways, and see which works best for you.

AS far as your cardio goes, I mostly agreee w/ rubber. However, I would not increase the time to 45 min. I would increase the number of times you do it /week.

8-10% BF is not very realistic. Just think- 8% is what figure girls are on stage!! Most girls look lean and tight in the 12-14% range. Most fitness/figure girls are about 12% in the off season. You may be putting too much pressure on yourself and I think you would be pleased at what 12-14% Bf would get yoU!!

[xtreem-chic]

Thank you again. I guess I need to be a little more realistic when it comes to my BF goals. I appreciate the insight.

As far as my "pitting" I am not sure if it is more noticable b/c my muscle may be getting larger (therefore getting closer to my skin) or what may be causing it. That is a very big hangup for me...sometimes to the point that I hate to wear shorts. I just hope that it goes away soon.

I will focus on doing cardio 5 times/week for 30 minutes, that should be ok, right?

Well hopefully someday I am as knowledged as you all are....thanks

[redsquirrel]

You'll get it down, sweetie!! Shit, I've been doing this for 4 years, and there is still stuff I don't know and there is still stuff I need to change. It's a lifestyle change, and it's not going to happen overnight. It takes patience and discipline.

As far as the "pitting" water retention can also cause some of that. You know how when women go get the body wraps they look all tight and less pitted? It's because when they do it, it sucks all the water from your skin.

That cardio regime is good...and as far as BF goes- don't beat yourself up! What is most beneficial to many women is to set small short-term goals leading up to the final long term goal. That makes it easier and seems more attainable when you don't put a time frame on such a huge goal.

[xtreem-chic]

You all are so motivational and so positive. I really can't say thanks enough....I can only hope that my dreams come true....

[bjj]

Xtreem-chick, your current diet is packed with processed foods, so I would definately suggest some changes. Redsquirrel's diet recommendation is an excellent one, but note a couple of things. According to my estimate, this diet allows about 1200 calories daily. This will help you accomplish your weight loss goal, but you will certainly need to increase calories once you get to the size you like. I will have to strongly disagree with the recommendation to cut dairy unless you are lactose intolerant. If you do cut dairy, calcium supplements will be a necessity.

Also, at 5'10, 145-150 lbs. @10% body fat sounds quite muscular, unless you are very large boned. If you're going for a lean, cut, slender build, keep doing what your doing and follow redsquirrel's diet, and you'll get there. If you want to keep some mass, add a little more fat and protein, and start lifting heavier again. Pilates is one of the best forms of excercise, but it promotes long, lean muscles. If you are going for a little more mass, stick with weights without neglecting a healthy amount of cardio (20-30 min 3-5 times per week).

Most importantly, try a couple of different recommendations and see what works the best with your body.