Gas May Soon Cost $7 and $10 a gallon...

[redsquirrel]

^yeah you are also following nick holgan for some fucking reason.

hes going to take away the tax breaks for the "rich" families. in theory its a great idea. well hes talking about familes with an annual income is 100-150k and give it back to the middle class. give me a fucking break. they are the middle class. they problem is ppl like you hear tax the rich more so you go alone with it. this is the classic democrat politics... they do this b/c there are more ppl in that tax bracket (middle class) and it plays perfectly into big oil rich republicans getting richer.

Well, my husband and I are in that tax bracket, and I file our taxes. I don't know where you're getting your info, but there are very little "tax breaks" when you are in that bracket. Our deductions are from our mortgage, property taxes & business expenses. No other "tax breaks"

[redsquirrel]

all this while the towel heads that hold the oil over our heads sit in the drivers seat making record profits by selling us supply and demand and shortage bullshit -

Actually, I watched the Senate Judiciary Committee hammer the oil execs over the weekend. It really has little to do with foreign oil or anyone holding it over our head.

The main question Sen. Pat Leahy had was how they could continue to drive up the price of oil with NO shortages, and yet still take multi million dollar salaries. You want to hear their defense??? They said that even though their profits are sky high, they have to prepare for the future when profits aren't there....Can someone please explain to me when an oil company HASN'T seen a profit???

The second problem with why gas is so high right now is because of the extremely poor dollar. Foreign investors invest in our oil because they can get more bang for their buck, which in turn makes oil that much higher, and drives the dollar weaker.

Environmental groups are who you can thank as to why we are not drilling domestically for our own oil. I am all for animal rights. But, there has to be another habitat those animals migrate to, if its done correctly. The Alaskan Denali & the Gulf of Mexico have huge oil reserves just waiting for us to drill.

What it boils down to, is the dollar. If the dollar stays weak, gas will continue to rise

[dreamgirl]

My father runs a automotive aftermarket chemical company which makes a penetrant and they have already had to make a 25¢ price increase on their product because of the cost of shipping and there is some oil used in the product. They have already cut costs of advertising in case they see a loss in profits because of the price increase.

If the price of oil goes up our costs of everything goes up because of shipping... it will completely kill the economy and we could be looking at a 2nd great depression. Besides no one affording to drive, costs of everything you need will also go way up... everybody is going to hurt!

[Bouncer]

gas is now $4.30

$3.75 here

[NYCmitch25]

^yeah you are also following nick holgan for some fucking reason.

hes going to take away the tax breaks for the "rich" families. in theory its a great idea. well hes talking about familes with an annual income is 100-150k and give it back to the middle class. give me a fucking break. they are the middle class. they problem is ppl like you hear tax the rich more so you go alone with it. this is the classic democrat politics... they do this b/c there are more ppl in that tax bracket (middle class) and it plays perfectly into big oil rich republicans getting richer.

[toolwtf]

^vote obama? some of the shit that guy says is fucking scary

Please elaborate on what you think is scary that Obama says? I've been following politics pretty closely this year and I believe that Obama is by far the most level headed one of them all - and that isn't saying much. Which of his policies do you find scary?

[NYCmitch25]

^yeah adapt they'd be saluting nazi's if it werent for us

vote obama? some of the shit that guy says is fucking scary

everyone focuses on vehicles which account for a small percentage of the fuel problem. avg house is %30 larger, commutes are %30 longer then 20yrs ago, and of course you need a nice comfortable SUV for that commute.

gas is now $4.30

[Nekrawulf]

You aren't thinking in depth enough about it. The reason Europe is that way is because they have always had high gas prices so they adapted - we now have high gas prices so we must adapt.

I think this is the key right here.

We HAVE to adapt.

[Shibby]

Ditto what Bouncer says. We can do things to help extend the current status of our lives, but most won't, so because of those that don't we all will suffer.

[Bouncer]

as you will know though scrum, just like your reference to getting in shape, most people just are not going to do it.

like i said, the general public isn't really going to have to change all that much. the business catering to that public will..

[Scrumhalf]

Well Shib, much as in the case of weight loss or getting into shape, it requires a lifestyle change. Not a huge adjustment, but a commitment nonetheless.

If it is going to take a half hour more a day to commute half of the way to work, or to walk to the grocery store, or maybe do your laundry on your day off so that you can hang it out instead of using the dryer, then that's the commitment one has to make.

Otherwise, aren't we doing nothing more than bitching and complaining, much like the people who can't understand why they are 50 pounds overweight and obese when their eating habits and basic lifestyle are badly screwed up?

[Shibby]

I'm not sure if you read it right or if what I was trying to say came across wrong. I have been talking about how we have made are lives to commute with our cars, because of that there is no money for the city to see a need for public transportation on a large scale. People can't miss a day of work here and there consistently and expect to keep their jobs. When I talk about missing days, I mean it because people can't afford the gas to go to work everyday. There will come a point where their job doesn't make sense to drive too after accounting for gas costs. So what's next... Get a job closer to home? Will that job make enough money to sustain the current life...? Move closer to the city to keep the job they have? Will the area be as nice, safe, affordable for the size of the family?... Sure energy conservation can help prolong things while a solution is figured out, but will it buy "you" enough time? Most Americans life is timed and structured around having multiple cars, if you have a family both parents work.

Just to hit on some of the points you made as to how it works into the majority of lives:

a. Walked or ridden a bicycle to the grocery store if it is just a mile or two away instead of automatically jumping into an automobile?

a) Time being the factor to do it consistently. Are lives are so busy that walking or riding might take an extra half hour out of the short days we have. Add that to weather factors and it can become very difficult and much more stressful. Most Americans need to find more ways to de-stress.

Carefully planned all your weekly shopping so that you make 1 trip instead of 3?

b) I think most people do this to the best of their abilities but things always come up. Although I agree their are plenty of people that can do a lot better at this.

Used a clothesline to dry your clothes instead of running the dryer? Most people on this board appear to live in parts of the country that should be sunny (i..e not the PNW like me) and as long as you have a backyard or deck, this should be pretty easy to do.

c) Assuming you have time to be at home while you dry them, because most people don't want to put up with stupid people stealing stuff or just messing with it. Taking the clothes out of the wash and clipping each piece to the line... More time needed. The clothes usually are more stiff and need ironing... Yep more time needed.


I don't want you to think I don't understand what you are saying and that I don't agree, but the reality of it is the lives that most live are not set up to live that way or make the changes needed.

[Scrumhalf]

Where are those homes going to be built for the mass of people to live closer to the city? Most cities use to have homes and people moved out after corporations bought the land to build more business's. Do you think people will be able to re-buy the land and build new homes? This "adapting" to high gas prices is what will destroy this country. That's why everyone is scrambling to do like what Bouncer said with cars. The idea of moving closer to the cities and jobs just isn't feasible. People will need homes long before business will shut down and rebuilding of homes can begin.

Shib, you are painting the most dire of scenarios, i.e. nobody is going to consume any oil any more. I agree that scenario would imply the end of civilization as we know it.

But don't talk about going cold turkey here.... how about just cutting your energy use by 10%? How about 20-25%?

For example, how many people on this board have:

a. Walked or ridden a bicycle to the grocery store if it is just a mile or two away instead of automatically jumping into an automobile?

b. Carefully planned all your weekly shopping so that you make 1 trip instead of 3?

b. Taken a bus or train to work even part way, i.e. driven up to a nearby park-n-ride and taken public transportation the rest of the way?

c. Used a clothesline to dry your clothes instead of running the dryer? Most people on this board appear to live in parts of the country that should be sunny (i..e not the PNW like me) and as long as you have a backyard or deck, this should be pretty easy to do.

My point is that shaving 10, 20% of your energy consumption is not that hard to do. It takes some commitment of time and effort but believe me, it will make a *huge* difference if everyone in America drops their energy consumption by 10%....

[Bouncer]

Instead of blowing things up in Iraq, I would like the government to spend the money providing incentives for say, solar power generation in the Southwest where they have almost perpetual sunshine, electric and hydrogen powered automobiles, tax incentives for higher-density housing near city cores, rapid transit systems in all major cities, etc.

i am right there with ya brother.

something else about the war. don't quote me on this but i am pretty sure i read somewhere that the war uses more fuel per day than all car traffic in America. :(

[Scrumhalf]

the brutal truth is that money drives change. not people sitting there and saying, "i need to change." "the people" really don't need to do a damn thing. the very fact that we cant afford gas anymore will drive the change. there is a whole new type of industry being built on the very foundation of high gas prices. "the green movement" is not because people care, its not because we have good hearts, it is because we simply cant sustain the way we were living.

Very astute observation, B! For every business or activity that folds due to the current (and probably permanent) situation of high gas prices, there is another that will prosper. This is where government can play a useful role - funding and subsidizing the industries that are going to succeed in this new environment.

Instead of blowing things up in Iraq, I would like the government to spend the money providing incentives for say, solar power generation in the Southwest where they have almost perpetual sunshine, electric and hydrogen powered automobiles, tax incentives for higher-density housing near city cores, rapid transit systems in all major cities, etc.