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Reload this Page SUMMER CYCLE....HELP PLEASE!

Beginners Q&A For People Just Getting Started


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Old 04-18-16, 04:36 PM
Cool SUMMER CYCLE....HELP PLEASE!
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Stats:
Age:28
Height: 5'9"
Weight: 167lbs
Body Fat%: 8-9%


Done two previous cycles:
1st: Test E/Tren E
2nd: Test C/Tren A

I'm looking to gain more strength and a little size but I'm wanting to stay as cut as possible. (I'm going to do a heavy bulk cycle a few months after summer)

__________________________________________________ _____

So as for right now I'm looking to run this combo:

TEST C. (250mg/ml) Qty:2 viles
TREN A. (100mg/ml) Qty:1
Drostanolone Propionate(Masteron)(100mg/ml) Qty:1

DOSAGE:
Test C: 250mg/2x/week
Tren A: 50mg/EOD
Mast Prop: 50mg/EOD

Cycle Support Supplements on Hand:
1. Animal Pak Multi Vitamins
2. Animal Flex
3. BSN Syntha6 Protein
4. Plenty of Amino Acids, Glutamine, BCAA's

5. VH Nutrition ESTRO'VOID (Aromatase Inhibitor)


6. IronLabs CYCLE SUPPORT
Cycle Support: On Cycle Protection & Liver Assist - by Iron Labs Nutrition (120 Capsules): Health & Personal Care[/url]

7. I also have extra: Milk Thistle Extract, Kidney & Liver Cleanse

8. Clomid: 50mg (Qty:50)
10. Nolvadex 20mg (Qty:10)


-------------------------------

I've done previous cycles so I know how my body reacts to the test and tren and how to combat any sides that I get. I never did a "FULL" PCT after either cycle. Took a little nolvadex, estro void and tribulus test but I was running a real low dose but now I'm looking to run a better PCT this time to keep my gains better. The Estrovoid actually worked really good when it came to gyno symptoms but I have Nolvadex on hand if it gets bad. I could use some help on my PCT though.

CONTRUCTIVE CRITICISIM & ADVICE is more than welcomed. I'm not looking to go to extremes but I do wanna stay healthy and get good results. So tell me what you think.

THANKS GUYS!! :wave:
[/SIZE]
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Old 04-18-16, 04:58 PM
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Links deleted from your post. Please don't post links especially if it's your first post.

Test, tren, and mast is a great cycle, should get good results.

Can't speak on the supps cause I don't use them.

You need more nolvadex then 10 pills though. Same for clomid. Get more of both. Those are what will make the real difference in PCT, not the supps.
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Old 04-18-16, 05:18 PM
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Ok thanks, sorry about the links.

About how much more nolvadex and clomid would I need?

From what Ive heard, Nolva is more for ON Cycle treatment and Clomid more for PCT, is this correct?
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Old 04-18-16, 05:48 PM
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Mast at 50mg eod is only 175mg a week...not gonna do much for you. From my personal experience 100mg eod is about the minimum dose to see any noticeable effects. I'd grab 2 or 3 more bottles of it. Tren is potent, so even at 50 mg eod it will do you good...but of course with only one vial, by the time it starts working it's magic, you're gonna run out of it. I'd get at least one more tren too
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Old 04-18-16, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMuscle View Post
Ok thanks, sorry about the links.

About how much more nolvadex and clomid would I need?

From what Ive heard, Nolva is more for ON Cycle treatment and Clomid more for PCT, is this correct?
People like to use nolv and clomid together for PCT. I actually always used nolv only. 50mgs per day for 3 weeks then 25mgs for another 3 weeks. Never used clomid so don't know the dose.
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Old 04-18-16, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
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Mast at 50mg eod is only 175mg a week...not gonna do much for you. From my personal experience 100mg eod is about the minimum dose to see any noticeable effects. I'd grab 2 or 3 more bottles of it. Tren is potent, so even at 50 mg eod it will do you good...but of course with only one vial, by the time it starts working it's magic, you're gonna run out of it. I'd get at least one more tren too
I don't know if the enth version is stronger but I used mast 200mg E5D with my test and got great results.
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Old 04-18-16, 07:11 PM
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I don't know if the enth version is stronger but I used mast 200mg E5D with my test and got great results.
This is still over 100mg more per week of what he was planning on...200 every five days is just about 300mg a week, so yeah that's close to what I suggested. His route is only 175mg a week, and only one vial which will be gone in 5 weeks...
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Old 04-18-16, 07:14 PM
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ahh good point. i must be tired. lol.
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Old 04-19-16, 11:05 AM
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Ok So I changed my order to 2 viles of each. Might as well get the results I want!

Should I run the TEST for 2 to 3 weeks before I start the Tren & Mast?
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Old 04-19-16, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMuscle View Post
Ok So I changed my order to 2 viles of each. Might as well get the results I want!

Should I run the TEST for 2 to 3 weeks before I start the Tren & Mast?
How long is the planned cycle?
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Old 04-19-16, 02:52 PM
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8 weeks is what I was planning.
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Old 04-19-16, 02:59 PM
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Ok. If you're only doing 8-9 then I would suggest test prop since test c will take 6 weeks to fully build up you would only get a couple weeks at 100% saturation. Start all compounds day one.
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Old 04-19-16, 03:49 PM
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2 bottles of 250mg test cyp would last 10 weeks at 500mg a week...you could always drop the test dose to 400mg a week, which would be 2 shots at .8cc...then you could stretch your cycle to 12.5 weeks. I'd still start everything at once. You'd get around 8 weeks of tren and mast out of it, then have another month of test to run to help hold onto your gains. If you're dead set on a short 8 weeker tho, I'd agree with Chuck and run test prop instead. But then you're gonna have to deal with painful shots. Most prop out there has a bite to it.
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Old 04-20-16, 10:47 AM
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I can extend it out longer, thanks for the advice guys. I'll do a 10 week. When should I start my PCT following the 10 week cycle?
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Old 04-20-16, 10:48 AM
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1 week after start PCT. People used to wait 3 weeks but I don't think that's best course of action.
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Old 04-20-16, 10:54 AM
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There is actually a formula that can be used but it depends on how much you are taking, ester half life, as well as how fast you as an individual metabolize aas. Most people start pct too early which will not allow your hpta to reset effectively. 500mg of test takes approx 35 days until your blood serum level is low enough for your htpa to get a full restart. At a minimum I wouldn't start pct before 3 weeks and wait until 4 if you can.

You're looking for your blood serum to be around 500 nanogram per deciliter before pct.

Last edited by chuckz28; 04-20-16 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 04-20-16, 11:02 AM
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The science behind it for anyone interested:

PCT should only begin when the body is in an environment to stimulate LH and FSH secretion. In the case of testosterone this environment is achieved once TT begins to dip below pre cycle TT levels. Therefore not only to judge when pct has been successful but also to determine when pct should begin Pre-cycle blood levels should be taken.

How do we determine when TT levels fall below baseline aside from experiencing side effects or getting blood drawn every week?

As we know TT is directly related with the amount of exogenous testosterone we administer. In TRT studies it is generally excepted that a 100mg shot of testosterone enanthate/cyp will put blood levels at around 800-900ng/dl.
We can thus use this conversion with decent accuracy to judge at what mg TT levels will fall below baseline. (The conversion ratio somewhat lessens as doses increase therefore we should air on the side of caution when determining the optimal test mg target)

For example if pre-cycle levels are 500ng/dl then PCT should only begin when exogenous test falls to roughly 50mg. This will put TT in the 400-500ng/dl range and thus in a state where HPTA stimulation of FSH and LH release begins to become possible.

Now that we understand how to determine optimal Mg range of ex Test for HPTA restoration we must now find the length of time required to reach said levels after the last injection. To do this we must first understand Half lives of the varying esters and the variation they can have with each individual's physiology. Some users metabolize AAS more quickly or more slowly than others therefore we can only identify an average. Ill give one practical example of the commonly used ester Enanthate.

Enanthate has a half life of 5 days +/- 2.5 days (I will use a 7 day calculation to air on the side of caution)

A 12wk cycle of test e at 500mg per week will put ex Test at around 1000mg
(500mg+250+125+62.5+31.25 etc = 1000mg)

This means it will take 5 half lives to reach ex test at or below 50mg therefore time between last injection and start of PCT is 35 days.

It would be worthwhile to determine your own metabolization rate by taking a blood test after the 4th AVERAGE half life has passed. (In this case it would be at 20 days) Based on TT levels at this point you can determine YOUR half life.

Now that we understand how to accurately calculate a PCT start date based on our own physiology, what should an effective pct consist of?

HCG may be used during cycle and is consider to be a better option by many. There is a bill Roberts article that you may refer to on the subject. He suggests 500iu EOD throughout the cycle. If you did not use HCG during your cycle, here is a variation of Dr. Scally's PCT protocol for AAS users (his experience and expertise speaks for itself)

HCG 2000iu E3D for 14 days before pct start date

PCT start

1-35 Clomiphene 50mg morning and night
1-45 Tamoxifen 20mg morning and night

1-45 low dose of Exemestane 12.5mg E3D (Optional)

The combination of Clomid and Nolva has been shown to provide better results than when compared alone. Clomid has a slightly different MOA than Nolva And Torem if you must use Torem in your PCT it should be a substitute for Nolva not Clomid. An equivalent dose of Torem for 40mg Nolva would be 120mg.

This PCT will give you the best chance at achieving and maintaining pre cycle TT levels rapidly after cessation of treatment for all AAS cycles under 25 weeks of suppression. PCT requirements vary depending on the user and mainly length of shutdown.

Post pct bloods should be taken approximately 2-3 weeks after cessation of treatment to ensure restoration has been achieved without further aid from SERM's. If restoration has not been achieved restart this PCT or better yet, CONSULT A PHYSICIAN!

Switching To Short Chain Esters

A largely overlooked factor that can greatly aid in maintaining gains, reducing HPTA shutdown length or extending a cycle without lengthening HPTA shutdown is switching from Long ester AAS to short ester AAS toward the end of the cycle. When done correctly this reduces the amount of time that users must wait to start PCT and/or increases the amount of time TT levels stay supra-physiological.

Here is a practical example of how to perform a switch to Test P from a regular 12 week cycle of Test E allowing us to extend it to 16 weeks. (In both cases length of shutdown is still 17 weeks)

First we must calculate our pct start date. For this example we will be using 750mg test e a week. With Ex test at about 1500 5 half lives have to pass to reach below 50mg. A PCT start date of 35 days is again warranted. Therefore we will start test p injections 35 days or 5 weeks before the end of the cycle.

Week 1-11 Test e 750mg
Week 13 Test p 400mg
Week 14 Test p 600mg
Week 15-16 Test p 700mg

Test p half life 2 days +/- 18hours (I will use a 2.5 day calculation)

PCT start 7 days

Tapering the test p injections upward in this fashion will ensure that TT levels do not spike dramatically when the shorter more quickly metabolized half life is introduced.

As we can see This will apply the same length of shutdown to the HPTA (17 weeks in both cases) but you will be able to extend the amount of time TT levels remain supra physiological.

Or if you would like you can use this method to shorten HPTA suppression length by removing the extra weeks of injections and starting test p from weeks 8-12. (13 weeks of shutdown instead of 17)
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Last edited by chuckz28; 04-20-16 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 04-20-16, 02:14 PM
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Great post thanks Chuck.
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Old 04-21-16, 06:20 AM
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chuckz28 thanks a lot!!!
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Old 04-21-16, 06:24 AM
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No problem. Good luck with your cycle bro. Run a log on the forum here if you can. It's good to have some accountability for motivation.
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Old 04-25-16, 05:10 PM
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Chuck just dropped the knowledge bomb. Props to you my friend!
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Old 04-25-16, 06:50 PM
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Chuck just dropped the knowledge bomb. Props to you my friend!
Thanks bro. I try. I cant take credit for whats written though, its just something I found.
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Old 05-10-16, 07:20 AM
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No problem. Good luck with your cycle bro. Run a log on the forum here if you can. It's good to have some accountability for motivation.
Yes, you are right. I'm going to do this:thumb:
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Old 05-23-16, 05:16 AM
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Thanks for info
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