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Old 01-25-17, 06:45 PM
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anyone else get the feeling Pence will just be sitting at his desk doing nothing for the next 4 years? i feel like Donald wants complete control of anything and everything.
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Old 01-25-17, 09:31 PM
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EPA Employees During Media Blackout: 'There's A Real Sense Of Dread'
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Old 01-26-17, 11:52 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeCmEONiy_U - found this randomly (after the cannabis vid), seems interesting
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Old 01-26-17, 11:52 AM
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anyone else get the feeling Pence will just be sitting at his desk doing nothing for the next 4 years? i feel like Donald wants complete control of anything and everything.
yes appears to be the case
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Old 01-26-17, 12:22 PM
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Mexico president cancels U.S. visit after Trump wall comments | Reuters
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Old 01-26-17, 12:23 PM
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good read...

Democrats are no longer laughing at Trump

Within four hours of becoming president of the United States, Donald Trump signed an executive order intended to limit immediately the effects of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (ObamaCare) in ways that are revolutionary.

With the stroke of a pen, the president assaulted the heart of the law that was the domestic centerpiece of his predecessor’s administration. How did this happen? How can a U.S. president, who took an oath to enforce the laws faithfully, gut one of them merely because he disagrees with it?

Here is the back story.

When ObamaCare went through Congress in 2010, all Democrats in Congress supported it and all congressional Republicans were opposed. The crux of their disagreement was the law’s command that everyone in the United States obtain and maintain health insurance -- a command that has come to be known as “the individual mandate.”

Republicans argued that Congress was without the authority to compel people to enter the marketplace by purchasing a product -- that such decisions should be freely made by individuals and that that freedom was protected from governmental interference by the Constitution. Democrats argued that the commerce clause of the Constitution, which permits Congress to regulate commerce among the states, also permits it to compel commercial activity on the part of individuals who make up a highly regulated component of interstate commerce.

To ensure compliance with the individual mandate, the law provided that the IRS would collect the fair market value of a bare-bones insurance policy from those who did not obtain and maintain one. The government would then take that money and purchase a health insurance policy for that individual who rejected the law’s command.

Though Congress did not call it a tax and the government’s lawyers uniformly and consistently denied in all courts where it was challenged that it was a tax and President Barack Obama rejected the idea that it was a tax and even the lawyers for the challengers denied it was a tax, a 5-4 majority in the Supreme Court characterized the money collected by the IRS from noncompliant individuals as a tax.

This is profoundly significant for constitutional purposes because though Congress cannot regulate anything it wants, Congress can tax anything it wants, as long as the tax falls equally on those in the class of people who are paying it. This unheard-of characterization of a non-tax as a tax was necessary to salvage ObamaCare before the high court because a different 5-4 majority in the same case ruled that the Republican congressional argument was essentially correct -- that the commerce clause does not empower Congress to compel commercial activity.

All of this has been debated loud and long since the law was enacted in 2010, validated by the Supreme Court in 2012 and came into Trump’s crosshairs in the Republican presidential primaries and again in the general election campaign.

Trump argued that the government cannot compel commercial activity, even as part of a large regulatory scheme, because the Constitution protects everyone’s right to purchase a lawful good or not to purchase one. He also asserted that ObamaCare does not make economic sense because its regulation of the practice of medicine and its administration of health insurance have resulted in a diminution of choices for consumers, which in turn has raised premiums, as well as deductibles, and chased primary care physicians from the marketplace. The Obama mantra that you could keep your doctor and your health insurance under ObamaCare proved to be patently false, Trump argued.

When Trump promised that as president -- on “day one” -- he would begin to dismantle ObamaCare, some Republicans, many members of the press and most Democrats laughed at him. They are laughing no longer because the first executive order he signed on Jan. 20 directed those in the federal government who enforce ObamaCare to do so expecting that it will soon not exist.

He ordered that regulations already in place be enforced with a softer, more beneficent tone, and he ordered that no penalty, fine, setoff or tax be imposed by the IRS on any person or entity who is not complying with the individual mandate, because by the time taxes are due on April 15, the IRS will be without authority to impose or collect the non-tax tax, as the individual mandate will no longer exist. Why take money from people that will soon be returned?

Then he ordered a truly revolutionary act, the likes of which I have never seen in the 45 years I have studied and monitored the government’s laws and its administration of them. He ordered that when bureaucrats who are administering and enforcing the law have discretion with respect to the time, place, manner and severity of its enforcement, they should exercise that discretion in favor of individuals and against the government.

This is radical coming from any president in the modern era of government-can-do-no-wrong. It is far more Thomas Jefferson, the small-government champion with whom Trump has never been associated, than it is Theodore Roosevelt, the super-regulator whom Trump has stated he admires. It recognizes the primacy and dignity of the individual and the fallibility of the state. It acknowledges the likely demise of ObamaCare. It is utterly without precedent since Jefferson’s presidency.

Trump’s revolutionary act is a breeze of freedom on a sea of regulation. It recognizes something modern governments never admit -- that they can be and have been wrong. It is exactly as Trump promised.
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Old 01-26-17, 12:24 PM
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U.S. government scientists go 'rogue' in defiance of Trump | Reuters
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Old 01-26-17, 12:31 PM
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Good example of exaggeration and headline grabbing. You can be anti-trump but this is silly.

http://www.theverge.com/2017/1/26/14...resident-trump
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Old 01-26-17, 12:52 PM
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Please explain why you think it is silly.
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Old 01-26-17, 12:59 PM
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Please explain why you think it is silly.
It's sensationalising. Tensions between Russia and Obama were just as dangerous as tensions between Trump and China. Someone at the nuke clock doesn't like trump and decided to whip up a frenzy. Clear as day. Only a biased person can't see this.
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Old 01-26-17, 01:04 PM
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Bullshit. If you don't think Trump is an order of magnitude more unstable and immature, you are lying to yourself. This is the guy who said out loud that he doesn't see any problem using nukes. The doomsday clock is merely a metric of that increased level of instability that this guy brings to the table.
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Old 01-26-17, 01:55 PM
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Nah. Biased as hell sorry. The Russian situation in Syria with Obama was extremely dangerous yet the nuclear clock didn't change.
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Old 01-26-17, 01:57 PM
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The guy in the White House is different. Different temperament. I'm surprised you don't see that this guy is way nuttier than any President in recent memory. Nothing to do with GOP vs Dem.
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Old 01-26-17, 02:12 PM
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The guy in the White House is different. Different temperament. I'm surprised you don't see that this guy is way nuttier than any President in recent memory. Nothing to do with GOP vs Dem.
I never said I can't see a difference in temperament. I never said anything about GOP vs Dem.

I said the anti Russian retoric from Hilary and Obama on top of the Syrian conflict on top of the Ukrainian issue in years past was reason enough to change the atomic clock. But they didn't.

You are so anti Trump you can't see past it.

I'm neither. If he does something I agree with I say it, if he acts like a dildo I say it. I'm not a Republican, Democrat, or anything in between. I simply see what I see without picking a side.
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Old 01-26-17, 02:16 PM
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I never said I can't see a difference in temperament. I never said anything about GOP vs Dem.

I said the anti Russian retoric from Hilary and Obama on top of the Syrian conflict on top of the Ukrainian issue in years past was reason enough to change the atomic clock. But they didn't.

You are so anti Trump you can't see past it.

I'm neither. If he does something I agree with I say it, if he acts like a dildo I say it. I'm not a Republican, Democrat, or anything in between. I simply see what I see without picking a side.
Don't be silly. It is nothing to do with me. Hillary, Obama may not have seen eye to eye with Putin but none of them were unstable enough to seriously think about nuclear weapons. There's only one guy in the discussion who is even crazy enough to mention nukes as a tactical option.

Don't try to pin this on me. I'm nust explaining why the scientists are concluding what they did. Unless you are in the Alex Jones camp and think there is an insidious scientist conspiracy. You do realize the doomsday clock is something that is managed by a group of scientists, right? It's not something made up by a political organization or by journalists.
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Old 01-26-17, 02:23 PM
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Disagree. I'd say we were more at risk of nuclear war the last few years simply because Putin is very much like Trump. Obama may not have wanted war but Putin was clearly getting more agressive. That is now over. China is more sensible.

So once again, it's BS. If they were going to change the clock they should have done so during the escalating tensions with Russia.

Scientists yes, they control the clock. How much you wanna bet they are anti trump? Even scientists can be biased when it comes to politics scrum. Especially when science organizations are actually under attack by Trump.

I'm not saying they aren't right in being anti trump. I'm just saying it influenced this decision.
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Old 01-26-17, 02:25 PM
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Read Lawrence Krauss' opinion piece in the NYT. Krauss is a theoretical physicist, cosmologist and one of the pre-eminent scientists working in the field today.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/26/o...-midnight.html
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Old 01-26-17, 02:31 PM
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Doesn't change what I see. There was a very real threat of dangerous escalation with a Putin led Russia the past few years. The clock did not change. Scientists can absolutely be influenced by politics. Especially when the current President is anti science in many ways.

Blows me away that you can't see this or simply refuse to see it.
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Old 01-26-17, 05:36 PM
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Again, neither Obama nor Putin was a loose cannon, crazy enough to talk about actually using tactical nukes.

The doomsday clock is not just about nuclear war, but about the environment and other things as well.

When Trump came in the scene, not only did he exhibit a frighteningly cavalier attitude about the use of nuclear weapons, something that has never been uttered by the leader of any major nation in recent memory, but he is also totally anti environment, including believing that climate change is a Chinese conspiracy.

So, the difference is this dangerously unstable guy that came on the scene that has zero scientific knowledge or knowledge on nuclear policy, consistently surrounds himself with ideologues with equally dangerous views and absolutely refuses to listen to others. This is what prompted the scientists to act.
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Old 01-26-17, 06:52 PM
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The danger of Trump is no greater than Putin. Come on scrum..
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Old 01-26-17, 06:54 PM
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The danger of Trump is no greater than Putin. Come on scrum..
To the US it is. Without any doubt. Are you freaking serious? Have you looked at everything the administration has proposed?

And Trump is way more unstable and stupid than Putin. This guy's seriously thinks he can use tactical nukes in the Middle East. Batshit crazy.
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Old 01-26-17, 06:56 PM
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To the US it is. Without any doubt. Are you freaking serious? Have you looked at everything the administration has proposed?
I'm talking about in context of Nuclear danger as in our argument today.

I would say there was a greater nuclear danger BEFORE Trump and Putin were in bed together.
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Old 01-26-17, 07:07 PM
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Our discussion is about the doomsday clock, not just nuclear weapons. The doomsday clock covers a bunch of things - nuclear war, global warming, etc.

I completely disagree that we had a greater chance of nuclear war before Trump. Neither Obama nor Putin (or Bush before Obama) was stupid enough to actually think that a tactical use of nuclear weapons can even be a topic of hypothetical discussion. And here comes Trump actually wondering why can't GIVE nukes to the Saudis! You don't think this guy is insane?

Really, this is beyond a Dem vs. GOP issue guys. This is a question of rational ppl who may have political differences versus a completely off the rails White House.
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Old 01-26-17, 08:38 PM
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I think we were very close to a "doomsday" scenario during the Syria conflict when Russian jets were flying super fucken close to our ships and plains etc.. Hilary would have continued that with Russia.
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Old 01-26-17, 08:57 PM
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It's OK great Britain will calm everything we have spotted the risks with Donald and will control him
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Old 01-26-17, 09:33 PM
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I think we were very close to a "doomsday" scenario during the Syria conflict when Russian jets were flying super fucken close to our ships and plains etc.. Hilary would have continued that with Russia.
What does Hillary have to do with anything? We are talking about Pre-Trump and Trump. Hillary never entered the picture.
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Old 01-26-17, 09:45 PM
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Can someone please explain, the whole woman's March thing in respect of abortion.

What is it they want changed exactly? I mean as far as I know trump has not outlawed abortion or did I miss something?
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Old 01-26-17, 09:46 PM
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What does Hillary have to do with anything? We are talking about Pre-Trump and Trump. Hillary never entered the picture.
It has to do with the doomsday clock changing a week after Trump took office when we had a very dangerous situation with Russia that would have stayed dangerous only the scientists wouldn't have brought the ole doomsday clock out. My argument is that we were in more danger of going to war with Russia and it would have continued with Hilary.

China and America need each other to much. We will have no war between us. But Russia was a very real and dangerous scenario.

I'm no Trump fan. But you hate him so much that you can't see something very simple and basic. This clock got brought out in part due to trumps attack on science organizations. If you don't think it has anything to do with politics you have zero common sense.

You're the smartest guy on the forum but God damn man your blinded by your disgust for him.
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Old 01-26-17, 10:32 PM
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That's not making any sense.

Hillary was a war hawk for sure, bit Obama if anything was too hands-off on Syria. There's no way Obama and Putin would have got into a armed confrontation over Syria.

You keep bringing up Russia. Russia is not the issue with Trump. He's not going to get in a tiff with Russia. It's the Middle East and other areas which are the concern.

Yeah, I don't like Trump. But it's because I think he's incompetent and borderline crazy. I'm not blinded by anything. In fact, there are few things in which I am as clear headed as this guy.
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Old 01-27-17, 01:17 AM
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That's not making any sense.

Hillary was a war hawk for sure, bit Obama if anything was too hands-off on Syria. There's no way Obama and Putin would have got into a armed confrontation over Syria.

You keep bringing up Russia. Russia is not the issue with Trump. He's not going to get in a tiff with Russia. It's the Middle East and other areas which are the concern.

Yeah, I don't like Trump. But it's because I think he's incompetent and borderline crazy. I'm not blinded by anything. In fact, there are few things in which I am as clear headed as this guy.
Lol wut? You are the one making little sense. There was increasing tensions with Russia and it was only building with Obama and Hilary. Yet the doomsday clock was not brought out on display.

Tensions with Russia are much less with Trump as him and Putin seem fond of each other. This is a good thing in terms of a doomsday scenario.

You're either misunderstanding what I'm saying or you've had too much to drink tonight.
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Old 01-27-17, 01:55 AM
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I am done explaining. For the millionth time, this has nothing to do with Russia. There was zero chance of a nuclear war between the US and Russia, so tensions between them, while undesirable, are not going to cause the end of the world. Handing over nukes to a middle Eastern country, or thinking you can use tactical nukes, on the other hand is a DISASTER!!!! And only one guy is even contemplating something that... our guy! AND.. the guy thinks global warming is a Chinese plot! THAT is the reason why the doomsday clock was moved closer to midnight after Trump came along, not before.

Last edited by Scrumhalf; 01-27-17 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 01-27-17, 04:11 AM
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How can you possibly say there was zero chance of war with Russia or how far that could have gone? One of those Russian jets flying close to our ships happens upon a trigger happy US naval captain and shit could have hit the fan. Please stop dismissing how dangerous things got with Russia the last few years.

I would say with Trump in, there is zero chance of war with Russia. Not before. And considering how much the Chinese and American economies need each other there is zero chance of War with China. The 3 most powerful nuclear nations with zero chance of war and the doomsday clock comes out? Lol

Bringing the clock out now and not before despite the ever increasing tensions with Russia is a political statement by those scientists. They may be correct, but they are also biased as you are even if they don't realize it..

And btw, nobody is arguing the temperament or statements made by trump. I agree with you, he can be a bit of a nutter. But doomsday is no closer then it was at the height of Russian tensions the last few years. Sorry, that's the inconvenient truth. Those scientists are 100% anti trump. With his stance towards the scientific community in general how could they not be? I'm anti trump when it comes to his stance on science and the environment. But that doesn't mean I can't see bias from those very people.
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Old 01-27-17, 11:04 AM
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I give up.
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Old 01-27-17, 02:39 PM
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We agree on Trump as a person. I'm not defending him. I just think you have too much of a bias to even begin to admit that I have even the smallest point...

If Trump does anything good during his Presidency I genuinely believe you will be unable to praise him or give him any sort of credit at all. In the same way that ripper found it impossible to praise Obama for anything at all.

Bias gives you a a foggy view on reality.
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Old 01-27-17, 02:45 PM
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Can someone please explain, the whole woman's March thing in respect of abortion.

What is it they want changed exactly? I mean as far as I know trump has not outlawed abortion or did I miss something?
they were marching for his attitude and comments towards women in general as far as I'm aware.
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Old 01-27-17, 03:33 PM
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Tycoon Slim says united Mexico ready for Trump talks | Reuters
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Old 01-27-17, 03:33 PM
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New U.S. U.N. envoy warns allies: back us or we'll take names | Reuters
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Old 01-27-17, 03:34 PM
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I give up.
Lol...
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Old 01-27-17, 03:52 PM
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We agree on Trump as a person. I'm not defending him. I just think you have too much of a bias to even begin to admit that I have even the smallest point...

If Trump does anything good during his Presidency I genuinely believe you will be unable to praise him or give him any sort of credit at all. In the same way that ripper found it impossible to praise Obama for anything at all.

Bias gives you a a foggy view on reality.
I think you are selling me way short. He said that his medical plan will have coverage for everyone. Now I don't believe that for a minute but if he can pull that off (with no gotchas, in other words, GOOD coverage for everyone), I'll be the first to stand up and applaud him.
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Old 01-27-17, 04:30 PM
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I think you are selling me way short. He said that his medical plan will have coverage for everyone. Now I don't believe that for a minute but if he can pull that off (
with no gotchas, in other words, GOOD coverage for everyone)
, I'll be the first to stand up and applaud him.
nice caveat
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Old 01-27-17, 05:11 PM
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nice caveat
How do you know such a word and who taught you how to use it in context? Lol
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Old 01-28-17, 02:30 PM
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Old 01-28-17, 03:40 PM
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There is a part of me that feels the silent majority are pulling for him.

I'm only talking about fears of islamisation.
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Old 01-28-17, 03:54 PM
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There is a part of me that feels the silent majority are pulling for him.

I'm only talking about fears of islamisation.
umm he was voted in by the silent majority. of course they are pulling for him.
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Old 01-28-17, 04:05 PM
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Stupid, short-sighted and will do grave damage to fighting real terrorism.
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Old 01-28-17, 04:20 PM
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Stupid, short-sighted and will do grave damage to fighting real terrorism.
one could make the argument that over the last few years the "open immigration policy" in many parts of Europe has made things much worse.

trump is doing the exact opposite of that. so if the European way was wrong, maybe the trump way is correct. just a thought.
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Old 01-28-17, 05:20 PM
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I can assure you that print shops in ISIS controlled areas are cranking out posters that say "American crusaders are dropping bombs and doing drone strikes on Muslims while letting in Christians. Join us!"


Moreover, it takes 2 to 5 years of vetting already to get a refugee visa to enter the US. A terrorist is highly unlikely to sneak in as a refugee from Syria. All you are doing is hurting the most vulnerable victims.

And finally, if he was really worried about terrorists, how come Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan and UAE aren't on the list? After all, most of the 9/11 hijackers were from either Saudi Arabia or Egypt. I wonder why? Oh yeah, I know.. these just happened to be countries with lots of oil, or where Trump has significant business interests. Wouldn't want to mess those up now, would we?

The whole thing is a racket. And the victims are real and helpless.

Last edited by Scrumhalf; 01-28-17 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 01-28-17, 05:39 PM
  #98
 
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Isis was cranking out posters regardless. So that's irrelevant.

Good point on Saudi Arabia though. Someone in the media should have the balls to ask Trump that exact question.
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Old 01-28-17, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrumhalf View Post
I can assure you that print shops in ISIS controlled areas are cranking out posters that say "American crusaders are dropping bombs and doing drone strikes on Muslims while letting in Christians. Join us!"


Moreover, it takes 2 to 5 years of vetting already to get a refugee visa to enter the US. A terrorist is highly unlikely to sneak in as a refugee from Syria. All you are doing is hurting the most vulnerable victims.

And finally, if he was really worried about terrorists, how come Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Pakistan and UAE aren't on the list? After all, most of the 9/11 hijackers were from either Saudi Arabia or Egypt. I wonder why? Oh yeah, I know.. these just happened to be countries with lots of oil, or where Trump has significant business interests. Wouldn't want to mess those up now, would we?

The whole thing is a racket. And the victims are real and helpless.
You seem to single out Trump. I would bet 99% of our elected officials don't want to piss off Saudi Arabia. They all love that oil money.
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Old 01-28-17, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbo3000 View Post
You seem to single out Trump. I would bet 99% of our elected officials don't want to piss off Saudi Arabia. They all love that oil money.
Trump is making the rules now. Who else am I going to single out? If it was Clinton doing it, I would say the exact same thing.

I was super critical of Obama arming the Saudis and how were aiding their genocide in Yemen, and how drone strikes engender serious resentment among the civilians due to collateral damage.
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