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Old 11-08-17, 10:58 PM
Scientists Challenge Recommendation That Men With More Muscle Need More Protein
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https://scienmag.com/scientists-chal...-more-protein/

Sports nutrition recommendations may undergo a significant shift after research from the University of Stirling has found individuals with more muscle mass do not need more protein after resistance exercise.

Health and exercise scientists from Scotland’s University for Sporting Excellence found no difference in the muscle growth response to protein after a full body workout between larger and smaller participants.

Kevin Tipton, Professor of Sport, Health and Exercise Science in the Faculty of Health Sciences and Sport, said: “There is a widely-held assumption that larger athletes need more protein, with nutrition recommendations often given in direct relation to body mass.

“In our study, participants completed a bout of whole-body resistance exercise, where earlier studies — on which protein recommendations are based — examined the response to leg-only exercise. This difference suggests the amount of muscle worked in a single session has a bigger impact on the amount of protein needed afterwards, than the amount of muscle in the body.”

Experts also found participants’ muscles were able to grow and recover from exercise better after a higher dose of protein.

Consuming 40 grams of protein after exercise was more effective at stimulating muscle growth than 20 grams. This increase occurred irrespective of the size of the participants.

Professor Tipton continued: “Until now the consensus among leading sports nutritionists, including the American College of Sports Medicine and the British Nutrition Foundation, is that weightlifters do not need more than around 25 grams of protein after exercise to maximally stimulate the muscle’s ability to grow.
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Old 11-09-17, 02:17 AM
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Bro science

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Old 11-09-17, 06:01 AM
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I do 30 grams protein, 30 grams carbs, 5 grams creatine in my pwo shake. I eat an hour later though. Each of my food meals is 40-50 grams protein.
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Old 11-20-17, 09:08 AM
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Bro science

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exactly, looks like the gym bros have it figured out with eating more than the 25g of protein post workout
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Old 11-20-17, 10:45 AM
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Did you guys even read the article?
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Old 11-20-17, 10:59 AM
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I did.. but let's not forget about carbs post workout to spike insulin for stimulating protein synthesis...

In my personal opinion it shouldn't matter when and how much protein to take after workout as PS last about 48 hours

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Old 11-20-17, 08:01 PM
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I did.. but let's not forget about carbs post workout to spike insulin for stimulating protein synthesis...
^ Bro science.

There is a big zero carb movement right now led by a doctor Shawn Baker, MD where they eat only meat. Nothing else just meat. No carbs, no sauces, nothing but meat for months, even years. Most seem to have good bloodwork and good results in the gym.

https://www.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/

Also, a lot of the Keto/Fasting guys train fasted and don't consume anything post workout. These guys eat moderate to low protein and high fat. Here is the guy behind this train of thought, Dom D'agostino:

https://images.fineartamerica.com/im...jake-hartz.jpg
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Old 11-21-17, 02:37 AM
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Lol @ reddit

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Old 11-21-17, 06:33 AM
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I get what you are saying and we can always argue the facts, but IMO you could look better and fuller with carbs...

Yea I heard people on keto fill better and more energetic, but it takes like days or week to get to ketones...

I rather have carbs in my diet.. always!

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Old 11-21-17, 11:26 AM
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^ Bro science.

There is a big zero carb movement right now led by a doctor Shawn Baker, MD where they eat only meat. Nothing else just meat. No carbs, no sauces, nothing but meat for months, even years. Most seem to have good bloodwork and good results in the gym.

https://www.reddit.com/r/zerocarb/

Also, a lot of the Keto/Fasting guys train fasted and don't consume anything post workout. These guys eat moderate to low protein and high fat. Here is the guy behind this train of thought, Dom D'agostino:

https://images.fineartamerica.com/im...jake-hartz.jpg
that's all well and good for getting lean. but i promise you nobody ever got jacked on no carbs. any of these guys that you can point out as being jacked and on no carbs did not get that way on no carbs. they got jacked the traditional way and then switched over to no carbs to pull fat off and then claim "owe i follow the no carb routine"...

like i said to rado a few weeks ago. there is a reason high level athletes consome tons of carbs. what do you think Phelps records would look like if he had been on keto during those events? the examples go on and on from swimmers, to power lifters, to bodybuilders. all tons of carbs.

can people look great on no carbs? absolutely. would they look bigger, fuller, and perform better in the gym with carbs.. absolutely. the human body performs better on carbs. you dont see nfl players coming off the field eating bacon and peanut butter for fuel. you seem them drinking Gatorade by the gallons.

again, i'm not saying you can't find athletes or bodybuilders that look great on keto. you can. but they did not get to that level following keto. you need carbs to put on real size. especially with AAS and GH. carbs interacts directly with hormones in a way that fat cannot match for growth.
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Old 11-22-17, 01:18 AM
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that's all well and good for getting lean. but i promise you nobody ever got jacked on no carbs. any of these guys that you can point out as being jacked and on no carbs did not get that way on no carbs. they got jacked the traditional way and then switched over to no carbs to pull fat off and then claim "owe i follow the no carb routine"...

like i said to rado a few weeks ago. there is a reason high level athletes consome tons of carbs. what do you think Phelps records would look like if he had been on keto during those events? the examples go on and on from swimmers, to power lifters, to bodybuilders. all tons of carbs.

can people look great on no carbs? absolutely. would they look bigger, fuller, and perform better in the gym with carbs.. absolutely. the human body performs better on carbs. you dont see nfl players coming off the field eating bacon and peanut butter for fuel. you seem them drinking Gatorade by the gallons.

again, i'm not saying you can't find athletes or bodybuilders that look great on keto. you can. but they did not get to that level following keto. you need carbs to put on real size. especially with AAS and GH. carbs interacts directly with hormones in a way that fat cannot match for growth.
Bouncer I don’t believe this to be correct. There are many Keto athletes. The guy in the photo I posted, Dom D. stays Keto pretty much year round and he’s more jacked than just about anyone I’ve see pics of on this board. Also look at Shawn Baker MD, he’s eaten on meat the past 10 months and documented his journey. The guy is big with quite a bit of muscle.

The body can perform and grow on ketones just the way it does glucose if you train it to. The science is changing on this and there are plenty of examples out there.
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Old 11-22-17, 01:31 AM
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Bouncer I don’t believe this to be correct. There are many Keto athletes. The guy in the photo I posted, Dom D. stays Keto pretty much year round and he’s more jacked than just about anyone I’ve see pics of on this board. Also look at Shawn Baker MD, he’s eaten on meat the past 10 months and documented his journey. The guy is big with quite a bit of muscle.

The body can perform and grow on ketones just the way it does glucose if you train it to. The science is changing on this and there are plenty of examples out there.
You didn't listen to what I said. The guy your talking about did not build his mass on keto. He switched to keto once the mass was built. You don't get jacked on keto. You refine and lean out on keto.

Likewise, performance is never optimal on keto. Olympic records were smashed (Phelps and Bolt) on lbs of pasta. NFL player's do not refuel during a game on peanut butter and bacon. There is a reason for this. Riders of the tour de France do not ride along sucking down olive oil. Again there is a reason for this.

Carbs fuel elite athletes, elite strong men (look up Brian Shaw Diet), and all top IFBB pros (especially with GH and slin).
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Old 11-22-17, 10:32 AM
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by the way, i'm not saying keto is worthless or doesn't work. not saying that at all. i'm disputing the argument that some people claim when it comes to performance, muscle gains, and strength.

the human body/brain needs glucose. when you are keto the body converts ketones into glucose for fuel. so instead of giving your body a direct source of fuel, you are making it take 1 extra step of conversion.

carbs are absolutely needed for maximum performance no matter if it's strength athletes, speed athletes, endurance athletes, or bodybuilders. that's not to say keto does not work, just that it's not optimal.
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Old Yesterday, 01:03 AM
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You didn't listen to what I said. The guy your talking about did not build his mass on keto. He switched to keto once the mass was built. You don't get jacked on keto. You refine and lean out on keto.

Likewise, performance is never optimal on keto. Olympic records were smashed (Phelps and Bolt) on lbs of pasta. NFL player's do not refuel during a game on peanut butter and bacon. There is a reason for this. Riders of the tour de France do not ride along sucking down olive oil. Again there is a reason for this.

Carbs fuel elite athletes, elite strong men (look up Brian Shaw Diet), and all top IFBB pros (especially with GH and slin).
Dom D'Augustino the guy I posted a photo of is on Keto year round. Why do you say he didn't build his mass while on Keto? Do you know something about him that I don't? If so please post what you are talking about. Or are you just making an assumption?

Do you know why Phelps and Bolt ate tons of carbs? Because that's what the science said to do at the time and nobody challenged it. They were just doing what the science said. Just like some people around here take an insulin boosting shake right after they work out. They believe that old science to be true.

A shift is happening. There are many endurance athletes and triathletes doing Keto 100%. Here is an article from Science Daily regarding this:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...1117091234.htm
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Old Yesterday, 01:06 AM
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by the way, i'm not saying keto is worthless or doesn't work. not saying that at all. i'm disputing the argument that some people claim when it comes to performance, muscle gains, and strength.

the human body/brain needs glucose. when you are keto the body converts ketones into glucose for fuel. so instead of giving your body a direct source of fuel, you are making it take 1 extra step of conversion.

carbs are absolutely needed for maximum performance no matter if it's strength athletes, speed athletes, endurance athletes, or bodybuilders. that's not to say keto does not work, just that it's not optimal.
What you are saying here is not fact.

The body/brain DOES NOT need glucose. The Brain actually runs very efficiently on ketones. There is plenty of data on this, what you are saying outdated. You are repeating things from the early mid 2000's.

I understand the good keto can do to lean out after going heavy carb or cycling keto/carbs like you are saying, but if you go on it 100% things change, your body adapts and you can build mass and have excellent endurance on Keto.

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Old Yesterday, 01:09 AM
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https://www.ruled.me/mythbusting-training-on-keto-diet/

Mythbusting: You Need Carbs to Build Muscle

People that tell you this don’t understand how muscle building really works – it’s entirely possible to be gaining muscle mass while on keto.

In a simple way, the 3 easy steps to build muscle are:

1. Eating enough protein – For mass building between 1.0 – 1.2g / pound of LEAN body mass.
2. Eating a calorie surplus – You can’t build muscle without eating more calories than you need, and these come from fats in a ketogenic diet.
3. Training correctly – You need to promote hypertrophy in your muscles.

Are carbs good for building muscle? Of course they are – they promote insulin release and help restore glycogen in the muscles. With carbs you gain mass quicker, but that’s because you’re also gaining fat.

What exactly is glycogen? It’s a molecule that our bodies use as energy.

What exactly does glycogen do? Wikipedia explains it nicely:

In humans, glycogen is made and stored primarily in the cells of the liver and the muscles, and functions as the secondary long-term energy storage (with the primary energy stores being fats held in adipose tissue).

Muscle cell glycogen appears to function as an immediate reserve source of available glucose for muscle cells. Other cells that contain small amounts use it locally as well.

As you can see, glycogen is being used as a secondary source of energy, where fats are being used over it. Once your body has become adapted to using fats (you’re in ketosis), then little glycogen is actually needed.

That little amount of glycogen you need? Well it can be created from the protein you eat in a process known as gluconeogenesis.

Are carbs necessary for building muscle? Of course not – You can still refill glycogen stores in muscles through a ketogenic diet. A ketogenic diet can be great for building muscle, as the protein intake is high and you’re unlikely to lose muscle mass. If you are unsure of what your nutrient intake should be, head over to our Keto Calculator to help out.

Putting mass on may be slower on a ketogenic diet, but that’s because you’re putting lean mass on. If you need to put total mass on quicker, you can achieve your goals through other methods. Seek advice in my alternative ketogenic diet post.

If it’s not about building muscle, people will argue that performance is decreased while on a ketogenic diet. That just isn’t true at all. This study was done on well trained cyclists who were on a ketogenic diet for 4 weeks.

The results show that aerobic endurance was not compromised at all. Their bodies adapted through ketosis, limiting both glucose and glycogen stores, and using fats as the predominant energy source.

Before your body enters ketosis and can use fats as the primary source of energy, you will see some strength and endurance loss. BUT, once your body becomes adapted to the fat intake, you will begin to convert fats into ketones to be used as a source of energy for both strength and endurance.

Even if you are doing very long cardio training, marathons and biking included, a ketogenic diet has been proven time and time again.

Summed up, the paper explains that a very low carbohydrate ketogenic diet can be useful for weight-class based athletes in their respective sport. Over the 30 day period of the study, on 8 different athletes, the results came out to be the same.

The athletes were fed a strict diet of green vegetables, olive oil, and high quality proteins (fish and meat). In all of their physical tests, they performed the same as when the initial tests were done.

Each athlete decreased their body weight, their body fat, and kept their muscle mass near enough the same. None of them had negative effects on their strength performance over the course of the study.
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Old Yesterday, 11:07 AM
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moochie maybe i'll change my mind as more and more science comes (i'm not close minded on the issue) but right now i'm still not sold. the Olympics were only a year ago and many of those records were smashed by people who put thier diets up on social media. it was literally the exact opposite of a keto diet. do you really think the top elite Olympians in the world with some of the best science and coaching teams behind them are just out of touch with the newest cutting edge diets? i find that hard to believe.

as for that guy that's pretty jacked building his mass on keto. do you really think when he started training the first few years (when most people put on most of their mass) he was on a keto diet? i just don't see a teenager or young guy getting into weight training saying "let me start out by cutting out all my carbs. it seems more realistic that he made the switch at some point and now simply says "keto works for me" which gives the wrong impression. yes keto works for him but only after he got jacked by traditional means. those are assumptions I admit because i wasn't there to see what he actually did but my experience tells me most guys dont get into lifting by starting out of the gate with keto.

keto has it's place and as more science comes out i'm willing to give it an open minded look. but right now there are way too many elite athletes and cutting edge olympic teams who have their athletes on carbs carbs carbs. records keep falling so it's hard for me to believe that keto offfers optimal performance over carbohydrates.
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