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Control
Old 02-22-08, 02:57 AM
The problems with typical bodybuilding splits
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Alot of you (probably most of you) have splits that look something like this

Mon. Chest
Tue. Arms
Wed. Back
Thur. Shoulders
Fri. Legs
Sat/Sun. :drunk:


Now obviously those types of routines are the most common and work great for some people, and if you can honstly say that you are making steady, continuous gains, then more power to you. However, from what I've seen, most guys in the gym are making very slow progress or no progress at all with these routines. The guy with decent arm genetics has decent arms and the guy with decent chest genetics has a decent chest but most guys never gain any real mass or develop a truely impressive, balanced physique with a routine like this. IMO, it is completely flawed and the reason splits like this are still so poular despite their low success rate is because you have genetic freaks out there who can grow huge and ripped doing whatever they want in the gym. Typical newbies with average genetics see these guys or read about their routines in Flex magazine and copy them, with dissapointing results.

What's wrong with the routine above? It's based on working a different muscle group each day, which is not how your body works. For example:

Mon. was chest day but since you did bench you also worked your front delts and triceps.

Tue was arms, so you just hit triceps 2 days in a row.

Wed was back, but you use your biceps doing rows and pull-ups so now you just hit biceps 2 days in a row.

Thursday is shoulders so you just hit rear delts 2 days in a row and you've now hit triceps and fronts delts again doing military presses.

Friday is legs. Sat/sunday rest (from lifting anyway).

So, in one week you hit triceps 3 times, front delts twice, biceps twice, rear delts twice, (and here's the really great part) chest, back and legs once.

Your body has more muscle in your legs /glutes than your arms and shoulders combined! In fact you should have the same amount of muscle in your lower body as you have in your upper body (that's called symmetry in bodybuilding) so why would you spend 4 days on your upper body and 1 on your lower body?????

So what's my alternative? Well an upper body/lower body split is a great choice, but that's a hard adjustment for somebody who's been training different body parts every day. What I do at least 90% of the time is the classic, underrated, Push/Pull/Legs split (or Push/Legs/Pull/Legs).

By doing all your pushing exercises (Presses/Dips/Tricep isolation) on one day and all your pulling exercises (Rows/Pull-ups/Curls) on another day, you avoid overtraining some muscles while under-training others. This is MUCH more congruent to solid, balanced muscle gain. Most people have the same two issues with this routine:

Control, I need to be in the gym more than 3 days a week bro, lifting weights is like crack to me

No problem, if you have the recovery ability you just do a 1 on 1 off, 2 on 1 off or even 3 on 1 off routine.

There's no way I can hit that many muscles in one workout, I do 6 different exercises for triceps alone

Well, you may have 6 different triceps exercises but you don't need to do each one on every push day. By alternating exercises you can stay on the Push/Pull/Legs routine forever and still "keep your body guessing". The basis of any good routine is compound movements anyway and that's sometimes all I do.


Just to give everybody an idea of how I use the Push/pull/legs routine I'm gonna go ahead and keep a log of my workouts for awhile. Anybody else who uses it is more than welcome to too.
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Control
Old 02-22-08, 03:01 AM
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Today I'm off but here's yesterday's pull workout:

Machine rows with a pronated grip
Weighted pull-ups
Rear delt raises off an incline bench
dumbell preacher curls
partial deadlifts (rack pulls)
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redback
Old 02-22-08, 04:13 AM
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i totally agree, this is why im training every 2nd day using a push/pull routine of only compound movements
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Old 02-22-08, 05:45 AM
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good post control, i do it a little different but i dont think the average lifter should follow my routine.

instead of lifting 5 days straight and then taking Sat/Sun off. my schedule looks like this:

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

Its set up so that the workout the day before doesn't interfere with the next days workout. this works for me but then again I am on AAS and I think my genetics are a little better then most in terms of recovery.
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Control
Old 02-22-08, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by THE BOUNCER View Post
good post control, i do it a little different but i dont think the average lifter should follow my routine.

instead of lifting 5 days straight and then taking Sat/Sun off. my schedule looks like this:

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

Its set up so that the workout the day before doesn't interfere with the next days workout. this works for me but then again I am on AAS and I think my genetics are a little better then most in terms of recovery.

Well, you're still hitting upper body 4 days and lower body once, but like I said if you're making gains more power to you.

The thing is if you were on a Push/Pull/Legs split , working out 5 days a week (like you are now) you'd be hitting everything about once every 5 days as opposed to once every 7. With your genetics and the AAS you might be seeing better gains than what you're seeing now due to increased frequency. Just a thought.
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Old 02-22-08, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Control View Post
Well, you're still hitting upper body 4 days and lower body once, but like I said if you're making gains more power to you.

The thing is if you were on a Push/Pull/Legs split , working out 5 days a week (like you are now) you'd be hitting everything about once every 5 days as opposed to once every 7. With your genetics and the AAS you might be seeing better gains than what you're seeing now due to increased frequency. Just a thought.
maybe i will give it a try for a month or so and see how i like it. only way to know is to give it a try.

so how exactly would you lay it out. i know for example i wouldnt want to do all my pulls in one day. know what i mean?
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Scrumhalf
Old 02-22-08, 07:18 AM
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Control, that was a very thought-provoking post. Can you post a recommended routine since I have never thought about your approach very deeply?
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Control
Old 02-22-08, 08:27 AM
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maybe i will give it a try for a month or so and see how i like it. only way to know is to give it a try.

so how exactly would you lay it out. i know for example i wouldnt want to do all my pulls in one day. know what i mean?
Well for a pull day I would do one type of row, one type of pull-up/pull-down, one type of curl, then either upright rows or a partial deadlifts (maybe a shrug if you want). Then I'll usually do rear delts to finish up. The next workout it's a different type of row and a different type of pull-up/pull-down etc..

For push days I'll do 2 different presses (bench, military press, dips), a flye movement, and usually lateral raises of some kind. If I have extra energy I might do tricep pressdowns or raises to the front.

Legs is usually just a quick warm-up on the bike and then squats followed by leg curls or romanian deads. Once in awhile I might substitute leg presses for squats but not often.

Time plays a factor in this too. If it's a weekday and I'm strapped for time, push day might just be bench press and dips. I can knock that out in 20 minutes and know that I've hit chest, front delts and triceps. On a saturday I might end up doing 10 different exercises cuz I have more time and I tend to eat and rest a little more on the weekends.
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Control
Old 02-22-08, 08:28 AM
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Does that help^^^^?

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Originally Posted by Scrumhalf View Post
Control, that was a very thought-provoking post. Can you post a recommended routine since I have never thought about your approach very deeply?
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Old 02-22-08, 09:25 AM
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Well for a pull day I would do one type of row, one type of pull-up/pull-down, one type of curl, then either upright rows or a partial deadlifts (maybe a shrug if you want). Then I'll usually do rear delts to finish up. The next workout it's a different type of row and a different type of pull-up/pull-down etc..

For push days I'll do 2 different presses (bench, military press, dips), a flye movement, and usually lateral raises of some kind. If I have extra energy I might do tricep pressdowns or raises to the front.

Legs is usually just a quick warm-up on the bike and then squats followed by leg curls or romanian deads. Once in awhile I might substitute leg presses for squats but not often.

Time plays a factor in this too. If it's a weekday and I'm strapped for time, push day might just be bench press and dips. I can knock that out in 20 minutes and know that I've hit chest, front delts and triceps. On a saturday I might end up doing 10 different exercises cuz I have more time and I tend to eat and rest a little more on the weekends.
arent you in effect doing the same muscles every other day though? all pull exercises use biceps, back etc.. all push exercises use shoulders, tri's, etc..
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Control
Old 02-22-08, 10:29 AM
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arent you in effect doing the same muscles every other day though? all pull exercises use biceps, back etc.. all push exercises use shoulders, tri's, etc..
No cuz you have leg day and you still have off days. So instead of this:

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

It would look like this:

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Push

Wednesday: Pull

Thursday: Legs

Friday: Off

Saturday: Push

Sunday: Pull

(then the next week starts with legs on tuesday then push on wednesday etc)

You'd be hitting each muscle group once every 5 days.


That's assuming you want to keep the same days off during the week (in your case mondays and fridays). I usually lift 2 on 1 off, but it depends on how I feel and what I've got going on.
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Old 02-22-08, 10:35 AM
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arent you in effect doing the same muscles every other day though? all pull exercises use biceps, back etc.. all push exercises use shoulders, tri's, etc..
I think that is the point, but its not every other day.

I think in terms I can understand Control, your workout would look something like this?

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Pull
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: off

and then you rotate through it that way like you would any none 7 day workout pattern?

And the other was:

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Pull
Day 4: Legs
Day 5: off

Right?

My question is about non-beginners. You're taking someone who has done multiple exercises and multiple reps down to such a minimum number. Does that have the same impact on muscle growth?
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Control
Old 02-22-08, 11:06 AM
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I think that is the point, but its not every other day.

I think in terms I can understand Control, your workout would look something like this?

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Pull
Day 3: Legs
Day 4: off

and then you rotate through it that way like you would any none 7 day workout pattern?

And the other was:

Day 1: Push
Day 2: Legs
Day 3: Pull
Day 4: Legs
Day 5: off

Right?


Yeah push/pull/legs is the pattern no matter what but you could do it lots of different ways, 1 on 1 off, 2 on 1 on off, 3 0n 1 off whatever.

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Originally Posted by NewbieChris View Post
My question is about non-beginners. You're taking someone who has done multiple exercises and multiple reps down to such a minimum number. Does that have the same impact on muscle growth?

Lets say your typical chest workout is

4 sets bench
4 sets cable crossovers
4 sets incline dumbell press
4 sets decline bench

now on your push day you're still doing
4 sets bench
4 sets dips
4 sets cable crossovers
(plus lateral raises and maybe tricep pressdowns)

That's 12 sets for chest instead of 16, but instead of hitting chest once every 7 days you're hitting it once every 5. So the overall work load is acually more in the long term. Once you've been lifting for awhile and you get that strong mind-muscle connection and you really learn how to focus your intensity you can start to get more out of fewer sets, at least that's been my experience.
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Old 02-22-08, 11:19 AM
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Okay, so the key to the situation is the control of compound movements in connections with the idea that you are keeping the training intense? Interesting.
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Mr.Mafioso
Old 02-22-08, 11:32 AM
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great post control


i recall u mentioning that sometimes u dont have time to work out and bust out a workout in 20 mins.
how is that satisfactory to you? i feel like if i dont sweat or am at the gym for at least an hour i get frustrated and feel that i have cheated myself.

does it matter how long ur work out is or if u break a sweat?
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Old 02-22-08, 06:21 PM
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Damn control good post. I like this layout a lot. Like scrumhalf said, its thought provoking.

I c that cardio is not being incorporated. I was thinking about modifying this routine like so:

Mon: Push
Tues: Cardio
Wed: Pull
Thurs: Cardio
Fri: Legs
Sad/Sun off
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Nekrawulf
Old 02-22-08, 07:58 PM
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Dont get me started haha
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Old 02-22-08, 07:59 PM
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So, would Push incorporate exercises that hit the chest, shoulder and triceps, and Pull have ones that hit the biceps and lats? That simplistically is what I imagine when I think of pushing and pulling motions.
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Control
Old 02-22-08, 08:10 PM
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great post control


i recall u mentioning that sometimes u dont have time to work out and bust out a workout in 20 mins.
how is that satisfactory to you? i feel like if i dont sweat or am at the gym for at least an hour i get frustrated and feel that i have cheated myself.

does it matter how long ur work out is or if u break a sweat?
That's rare, I usually spend 45 minutes to an hour in the gym.

However, if I'm in a situation where I have to squeeze a workout into 20 minutes I can do it ,and sometimes if I have to choose between a 20 minute workout and and just skipping the gym all together I'll hit the gym for 20 minutes (especially if I know I won't have time the next day.)

In 20 minutes I can superset pec-deck flyes and weighted dips for 5 sets each then have time for a drop-set on the military press machine. If the intensity is there, you can suffeciently stimulate the muscle that quickly.
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Control
Old 02-22-08, 08:11 PM
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Damn control good post. I like this layout a lot. Like scrumhalf said, its thought provoking.

I c that cardio is not being incorporated. I was thinking about modifying this routine like so:

Mon: Push
Tues: Cardio
Wed: Pull
Thurs: Cardio
Fri: Legs
Sad/Sun off
I just didn't mention cardio. I usually do cardio on off days but sometimes I do cardio on days I lift too.
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Control
Old 02-22-08, 08:12 PM
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So, would Push incorporate exercises that hit the chest, shoulder and triceps, and Pull have ones that hit the biceps and lats? That simplistically is what I imagine when I think of pushing and pulling motions.
Yes, basically. With front delts on push day and rear delts on pull day.
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Old 02-23-08, 07:50 AM
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Great post control. I'm looking to change things up a little and really considering this approach.
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Control
Old 02-23-08, 08:05 AM
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Today was a push day

Dumbell military press
weighted dips
pec-deck
tricep press-down lying on the floor (I guess you could call these cable skull-crushers)
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Old 02-23-08, 10:28 AM
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Dont get me started haha
PLEASE do bro - why withhold knowledge - I would love to hear your thoughts even if you prefer to start another thread...
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Old 02-23-08, 10:29 AM
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PLEASE do bro - why withhold knowledge - I would love to hear your thoughts even if you prefer to start another thread...
exactly. i want to hear what he has to say also.
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Nekrawulf
Old 02-23-08, 04:51 PM
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The problem with standard splits, and many others that FItness Magazines tout, is that these splits were designed on the premise that the athlete was using AAS.

This type of workout split has a focus on muscluar isolation and hypertrophy, which when applied to the scale recommended by the non AAS user... induces overtraining and a negating autocrinic response from the body.. actually hindering gains.

Control, you are taking a step in the right direction with your proposed split, and it is one I used alot when I was still doing "bodybuilding" type workouts.

The basis of functional weight movement can be broken down into the 3 categories you named above. Push, Pull, Core. I consider legs part of the core, because the most power is generated from the hips, as opposed from the legs (even though popular opinion would disagree).

Seperating your split into these 3 categories causes you to do a few things. It causes you to incorporate more compound lifts than you otherwise would, and it also causes you to train across a broader spectrum of the muscular-skeletal systems and possibly incorporate a different set of base movements with every workout.

A wonderful side effect of all this is a higher neurological stress induced form the workout, and a higher endocrininc/autocrinic response (think more "natural" release of testosterone, glucagen, and other wonderful eichasanoid).

Varied stimulation to induce a rapid biological response to overcome the new variable in training is key to overcoming plataeus.

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Old 02-23-08, 05:38 PM
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The problem with standard splits, and many others that FItness Magazines tout, is that these splits were designed on the premise that the athlete was using AAS.

This type of workout split has a focus on muscluar isolation and hypertrophy, which when applied to the scale recommended by the non AAS user... induces overtraining and a negating autocrinic response from the body.. actually hindering gains.

Control, you are taking a step in the right direction with your proposed split, and it is one I used alot when I was still doing "bodybuilding" type workouts.

The basis of functional weight movement can be broken down into the 3 categories you named above. Push, Pull, Core. I consider legs part of the core, because the most power is generated from the hips, as opposed from the legs (even though popular opinion would disagree).

Seperating your split into these 3 categories causes you to do a few things. It causes you to incorporate more compound lifts than you otherwise would, and it also causes you to train across a broader spectrum of the muscular-skeletal systems and possibly incorporate a different set of base movements with every workout.

A wonderful side effect of all this is a higher neurological stress induced form the workout, and a higher endocrininc/autocrinic response (think more "natural" release of testosterone, glucagen, and other wonderful eichasanoid).

Varied stimulation to induce a rapid biological response to overcome the new variable in training is key to overcoming plataeus.
So, you are for the most part in agreement with Control?

Let me ask everyone this question, but I'd really like to hear the answer from yourself and Control. Seeing as how doing more isolation movements works some muscle groups secondarily, like how bench works triceps...How does this apply to someone who is constantly lifting heavy objects on a regular basis in their normal day? Isn't that what 'lifting' is supposed to emulate? So isn't your argument studded by the fact that some people do heavy lifting for a job and then workout and still don't over train? I hope that makes sense...
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Nekrawulf
Old 02-23-08, 06:21 PM
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So, you are for the most part in agreement with Control?

Let me ask everyone this question, but I'd really like to hear the answer from yourself and Control. Seeing as how doing more isolation movements works some muscle groups secondarily, like how bench works triceps...How does this apply to someone who is constantly lifting heavy objects on a regular basis in their normal day? Isn't that what 'lifting' is supposed to emulate? So isn't your argument studded by the fact that some people do heavy lifting for a job and then workout and still don't over train? I hope that makes sense...
I agree with Control in that he is taking a step in the right direction, but he has yet to take that jump.

For the most part, "typical" splits are NOT an emulation of true life work. When is the last time you did the following exercises in a real life situation:

Curl
Lateral Raise
Bench Press and its variations
Anything to do with a cable crossover.
Anything to do with a Smith Machine.
Anything to do with Machine assisted movements.
Leg Press
Leg extension
Leg Abduction
Leg Adduction
Elliptical Training

And quite simply... and isolation exercise... period.

So while you are at a gym, performing all of these exercises and forming an adaptation to them, they do very little to help you run faster, punch harder, lift objects more efficiently and a myraid of other daily activities.

In response to your point on overtraining.

If they are doing this heavy lifting at their job, every day, homeostasis and physiological adaptation will ensure that they no longer incur the same stress at the job day in and day out.... it is similar to training in that the body exibits generalized adaptation to physical stimulus.

Homeostasis is bodybuilding worst nightmare, and it is what athletes in this culture struggle with day in and day out.

Beating homeostasis is the key.

I am perfomance based in my training as opposed to size based. So my split is adjusted fir this.

To give you an idea of how I break down the mechanics of my split, I divide it intot he following catgories:

push
pull
hips
core
speed
work

I use 3 primary methods to achieve this:

Gymastics(this includes plyometrics and agility based exercises)
Met-Con (any movement of combonation there of that illicits a metabolic response across 2 or more metabolic pathways)
Weightlifting Techniques (more importantly, Olympic Lifts and variations there of)

I mix and match these 3 different components daily, and I rarely have 2 of the "same" workout in a month.

Homeostasis is my bitch and I an evenly developing across all 10 domains of fitness.

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Shibby
Old 02-23-08, 06:43 PM
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My question is , in no way meant to be questionable, how did you two educate yourself on this? It's great to hear these perspectives, but I also would like to know how you came upon these thoughts. I have done a lot of compound movements in the recent time, but it's not for mass building. I have had a feeling of being more symmetrical in the sense that my body works together in it's goals instead of having "dead spots" or lagging parts. Does that make sense?

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Old 02-23-08, 07:01 PM
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This rocks - thanks for adding to the thread Nekrawulf - I'm learning as you guys type/share/discuss!!!!
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Old 02-23-08, 07:13 PM
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Nekrawulf - I do want to ask this though - you've said that Control is taking a step in the right direction and that your splits/workouts kick homeostatis' butt - however you also said you're not going for the "Bodybuilding" type physique either BUT let's say that you were or you were working with someone who had that goal - what would you recommend to THEM???
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Old 02-23-08, 08:27 PM
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My question is , in no way meant to be questionable, how did you two educate yourself on this? It's great to hear these perspectives, but I also would like to know how you came upon these thoughts. I have done a lot of compound movements in the recent time, but it's not for mass building. I have had a feeling of being more symmetrical in the sense that my body works together in it's goals instead of having "dead spots" or lagging parts. Does that make sense?
I read all types of literature and journals on exercise science, physiology, kinesiology, and diet.

The more I read. The more I am overtly convinced that Genetics and endocrinic manipulation play a much larger role than the scientific community give it credit for. It all started with my deep research into anabolics and the hows and whys they worked.
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Old 02-23-08, 08:30 PM
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The problem with standard splits, and many others that FItness Magazines tout, is that these splits were designed on the premise that the athlete was using AAS.

This type of workout split has a focus on muscluar isolation and hypertrophy, which when applied to the scale recommended by the non AAS user... induces overtraining and a negating autocrinic response from the body.. actually hindering gains.

Control, you are taking a step in the right direction with your proposed split, and it is one I used alot when I was still doing "bodybuilding" type workouts.

The basis of functional weight movement can be broken down into the 3 categories you named above. Push, Pull, Core. I consider legs part of the core, because the most power is generated from the hips, as opposed from the legs (even though popular opinion would disagree).

Seperating your split into these 3 categories causes you to do a few things. It causes you to incorporate more compound lifts than you otherwise would, and it also causes you to train across a broader spectrum of the muscular-skeletal systems and possibly incorporate a different set of base movements with every workout.

A wonderful side effect of all this is a higher neurological stress induced form the workout, and a higher endocrininc/autocrinic response (think more "natural" release of testosterone, glucagen, and other wonderful eichasanoid).

Varied stimulation to induce a rapid biological response to overcome the new variable in training is key to overcoming plataeus.
great post, these are the kind of posts i would like to see more. no more of your 3 word posts. :P

Question though, you said that the conventional type of workout was designed for the steroid using bodybuilder. so is the conventional way somehow better for someone using steroids?
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Old 02-23-08, 08:34 PM
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Nekrawulf - I do want to ask this though - you've said that Control is taking a step in the right direction and that your splits/workouts kick homeostatis' butt - however you also said you're not going for the "Bodybuilding" type physique either BUT let's say that you were or you were working with someone who had that goal - what would you recommend to THEM???
Constantly varied, high intensity, functional movements.

Work muscles PRIMARILY as groups, not individuals. And you will have a much more superior response to the training. Of course For hypertrophys sake, you will need to isolate the muscles that you are not properly engaging in the compound training. Mark Rippetoe(author of "Starting Strength" has a similar training protocol to mine, excepts that he incorporated "bodybuilding" movements like those listed earlier in the thread to help isolate certain "lagging" parts


The irony of my situation is this... Since I came off AAS and focused on the performance module, my symmetry has naturally balanced itself out.
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Old 02-23-08, 08:42 PM
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great post, these are the kind of posts i would like to see more. no more of your 3 word posts. :P

Question though, you said that the conventional type of workout was designed for the steroid using bodybuilder. so is the conventional way somehow better for someone using steroids?
yes. I wont deny that..... But only to a small degree.

Typical splits, when on cycle, are specialized in creating maximum hypertrophy. Thus giving the most bank for the buck. That is, until your body adapts to that regimen on training. AAS helps to prolong this adaptation, but it is inevitable, and the longer you have been training, the faster the adaptation.

This is why vets get smaller gains than newbs.

With a less specialized split as Control suggests, you have more leeway for variation in the workout, and a higher resistance to adaptation.

We all say it... all the time... you HAVE to mix it up...

But in reality we don't, we only shuffle around the same old splits.
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Old 02-23-08, 08:43 PM
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g. no more of your 3 word posts. :P
what you mean?
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Old 02-23-08, 08:44 PM
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i know this is going to be a pain in the ass but can you put together a program for me of how you would lay out the training. i am kind of having a hard time understanding which groups to work on different days.

this is my current program.

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

how should i change this? i know control explained it a bit but for some reason i seem to be having a hard time figuring out how to transform my program above into the one you guys are describing.

thanks

Last edited by Bouncer; 02-23-08 at 08:49 PM.
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Old 02-23-08, 08:46 PM
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what you mean?
many of your posts lately have been very short little effort posts. kind of like your first post in this thread, "dont even get me started" or whatever you said. well i am sure glad we got you started because you have a lot of great knowledge to share.
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Old 02-23-08, 08:51 PM
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i know this is going to be a pain in the ass but can you put together a program for me of how you would lay out the training. i am kind of having a hard time understanding which groups to work on different days.

this is my current program.

Monday: Off

Tuesday: Arms

Wednesday: Legs

Thursday: Shoulders

Friday: Off

Saturday: Back

Sunday: Chest

how should i change this? i know control explained it a bit but for some reason i seem to be having a hard time figuring out how to transform my program above into the one you guys are describing.

thanks
First we need to lay out your goals, What would you like to accomplish with this split.

Try to be very precise.
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Old 02-23-08, 09:03 PM
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First we need to lay out your goals, What would you like to accomplish with this split.

Try to be very precise.
my goal is always the same. mass. i am currently on low dose test and tren cycle and want to maximize it.
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Old 02-23-08, 09:08 PM
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my goal is always the same. mass.
Ok.

What are some of your favorite exercises that you use to achieve this goal?
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Old 02-23-08, 09:18 PM
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Ok.

What are some of your favorite exercises that you use to achieve this goal?
i use pretty basic movements for the most part and usually only do 2-3 sets per muscle group. for example, today i did chest. i did 3 sets of DB incline presses for 10 reps each. then i did 3 sets of wide press hammer strength for 10 reps each. finished off with standing cable flys at 3 sets for 15 reps each. i always train as heavy as i can go without loosing form or control.

when i train arms i do 2 sets for triceps and 3 sets for biceps. for triceps i do 3 sets of skull crushers and 3 sets of seated behind the head DB tricep presses. for biceps i will do 3 sets of straight bar curls, 3 sets of DB hammer curls, and 3 sets of machine curls to finish off.

of course i change exercises up each week but i think you get the idea.
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Old 02-23-08, 09:26 PM
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This has got to be one of the best threads on SM in quite a while. Lots of knowledge being shared - keep it going guys!
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Old 02-23-08, 09:28 PM
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This has got to be one of the best threads on SM in quite a while. Lots of knowledge being shared - keep it going guys!
agreed, i think you will also agree that the board as a whole has had a better attitude the last few months.
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Old 02-23-08, 09:31 PM
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agreed, i think you will also agree that the board as a whole has had a better attitude the last few months.
The last eight days for sure

In all seriousness, have you notice that is has simply been a lot more conversation and un-heated debate than flaming over stupid shit...
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Old 02-23-08, 09:41 PM
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SO heres what we can do.

You only have one goal, so we cannot balance, mix, and match moevements to different goals.

What we can move around are your rest days, and the exercises incorporated on these days.

I recommend a 3 day on, 1 day off approach. with a 4 mechanic base.

Your 4 mechanics are:

Push
Pull
Core
Hips

And here is how you run it. ps - pl-c-rest-h-ps-pl-rest And so on.

This changes the rest day variable and allows for a variance in that manner.

Incorporate 1 compound lift with every workout and 2-3 secondary exercises using your current Hypertrophy based scheme 8-12 reps.

I want 4 sets of the compound lift and 2 sets of the ancillary exercises.

You continue like this until you cycle completely through the mechanics twice. In other words your split comes full circle twice and you are looking at another "ps - pl-c-rest" Series.

NOW! you change the order of the mechanics mayyybeeeee "hips-pull-core push" and you also change the workout scheme. Maybe this time only do 2 sets of a compound life and 3 each of the accillaries.

Rinse, recycle, change and repeat.


Now remember.... some compound lifts encompass multiple mechanics, but only associate that compound lift with that particular mechanic that it focuses on.

Here are sample compound lifts per mechanic

Push - Dips, Bench
Pull - Pullups, Clean
Core - Deadlift, Overhead Squat
Hips - Snatch, Back Squat

There are many more, but these are just a couple to give you a general idea of what direction to go.

Change things up frequently, exercises, methods, underwear.

Whatever it takes to keep homestasis guessing what you will be doing next.

Most important thing, do not be afraid to deviate... i.e. say you feel you need to 3 ancillary isolation exercises... DO IT. Only you know what you can and cant handle.

Last edited by Nekrawulf; 02-23-08 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 02-23-08, 09:48 PM
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maybe you explained it above but i am still a little confused here. how may sets would i be doing on each day? 3? like 3 pull movements on monday and then 3 push movements on Tuesday? i am not sure why i am having such a hard time with this.
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Old 02-23-08, 09:52 PM
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I want 4 sets of the compound lift and 2 sets of the ancillary exercises.
All of that mechanic that you are focusing on for that day.
so on your pull day you can do, 4 sets of weighted pullups(or non weighted), 2or3 sets of Curls, 2or3 sets of lateral raises.... etc (just as long as they are pull centric) Be sure to hit a wide range of muscles, as you have a lot of exercises to choose from, and you may hit similar muscle groups on other mechanic days.

remember this is 3 on 1 off, not mwttfss. days of the week dont matter
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Old 02-23-08, 09:59 PM
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nekra, can you lay it out so that i can just look at it and say, "ok today i do this, this, and this." i know i am being a pain in the ass here and i am usually not this dumb but i think laying it like that would make it easier for everyone.

for example:

Day 1: Exercise 1, exercise 2, exercise 3

Day 2: Exercise 1, exercise 2, exercise 3

Day 3: etc, etc..
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Old 02-23-08, 10:11 PM
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Day 1: Pull - Pullups, Preacher Curls, Lateral raises
Day 2 : Push - Dips, SkullCrushers, Incline DB press
Day 3: Core - Overhead Squats, Crunches, Good Mornings
Day 4: Rest
Day 5: Hips - Back Squat, Leg extension, Leg Curl, Calf Raises
Day 6: Pull - Hanging Power Clean, Bent DB Rows, Shrugs
Day 7: Push - Military Press, Pec Deck, Close Grip Bench
Day 8: Rest
Day 9: Core - Deadlift, Wood Choppers, Ab machine

Keep changing up the exercises, but always make sure to include 1 major compound lift.

Make sense now?

Remember, if this volume isnt high enough for you... change it up. But remember, it is better to have fewer exercises in 1 workout and more sets, than vice versa.

Say you want to ad cardio, you have several options, you can do it on a certain mechanic, you can do it on your rest days, or you can give it its own mechanic like

"Work"-- and on this day you do your cardio, and other.. less intrusive exercises... like calves or grip work... additional ab work...etc

Last edited by Nekrawulf; 02-23-08 at 10:13 PM.
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