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fatboyatkins
Old 11-07-11, 03:16 PM
Question Numpty Novice
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Hi all

Can anyone tell me if I'm wasting my time!!!!

I have limited time to work out due to work and family (I'm sure I'm not alone).

I train for 30-35 mins in the morning with weights and another 40mins of cardio in my lunch break.

I'm fat and forty, looking to eventually lose fat but my main aim is to gain muscle. Can I achieve this in the time I have or am I flogging a dead horse?

I've stopped losing weight, dont feel like I'm gaining muscle however I have seen strength gains.

I'm considering dropping the cardio and using both my morning and lunchtime sessions for weights - any advice would be welcome.

Cheers

Fatboy

My Weights routine is as follows:

Monday
Squats 5x5
Flat barbell press 5x5
Incline Flyes 3x8-10
Flat Dumbbell Press 3x8-10
Straight Arm Pullover 3x10


Tuesday
Military Press 3x8-10
Side Raises 3x10-15
Front raises 3x10-15
Shrugs 3x10

Wednesday
Squats 5x5
Reverse Grip Pulldown: close grip 4x10
Bent Over dumBell Rows 3x10-12
Straight Arm Pulldown 3x10
Upright rows 3x10

Thursday
Flat barbell press 5x5
Incline Flyes 3x8-10
Flat Dumbbell Press 3x8-10
Straight Arm Pullover 3x10

Friday
Squats 5x5
Military Press 3x8-10
Side Raises 3x10-15
Front raises 3x10-15
Shrugs 3x10
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Scrumhalf
Old 11-07-11, 03:20 PM
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If you are lifting weights and doing cardio and not losing weight, it means you are not eating right. What is your height/weight/age/sex and how many calories do you eat currently? If you don't know, then there's your problem.
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Bouncer
Old 11-07-11, 03:42 PM
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diet is the biggest factor. you listed your training but said nothing about diet which leads me to believe that is where your weakness lies.

list what your normal daily diet looks like.
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-07-11, 04:12 PM
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Thanks for your feed back guys.

I'm 40 year old male, 5'11 currently 225lbs

My diet has varied over the past few months.

I try to have 6 meals per day and is currently:

Omni hardcore 05:30
training (weights)
Omni hardcore 07:30
protein shake or tin of tuna 10:00
protein shake or tin of tuna 12:30
training (cardio)
protein shake 16:00
Meal of chicken/rice 20:30 - 21:00

My daily intake is roughly between 220-260gm protein and 2000 calories.

I'm replacing the protein shakes @10:00, 12:00 and 16:00 with meal replacment shakes consisting of 35gm protein, 35gm carbs 330calories.

Cheers
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Bouncer
Old 11-07-11, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by fatboyatkins View Post
Thanks for your feed back guys.

I'm 40 year old male, 5'11 currently 225lbs

My diet has varied over the past few months.

I try to have 6 meals per day and is currently:

Omni hardcore 05:30
training (weights)
Omni hardcore 07:30
protein shake or tin of tuna 10:00
protein shake or tin of tuna 12:30
training (cardio)
protein shake 16:00
Meal of chicken/rice 20:30 - 21:00

My daily intake is roughly between 220-260gm protein and 2000 calories.

I'm replacing the protein shakes @10:00, 12:00 and 16:00 with meal replacment shakes consisting of 35gm protein, 35gm carbs 330calories.

Cheers
in other words your on a liquid diet. lol

bro your body knows real food and fake food.

shakes have there place but it is for post workout and maybe before bed. thats it.

replace everone one of those shakes with chicken and rice except for the post workout shake and a before bed shake. every meal besides those 2 need to be real food.
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-07-11, 04:29 PM
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Thanks for the reply - I appreciate it

Looks like I'd better get cooking!

I was using the shakes as a way of controlling my intake - sounds like my logic was a mile out.

I guess the 5kg of protein powder Ihd delivered today will last me a long time
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Bouncer
Old 11-07-11, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by fatboyatkins View Post
Thanks for the reply - I appreciate it

Looks like I'd better get cooking!

I was using the shakes as a way of controlling my intake - sounds like my logic was a mile out.

I guess the 5kg of protein powder Ihd delivered today will last me a long time
yea man, there is no short cut or trick, it takes real effort and hard work.

watch how you cook that chicken and rice also.

dont be cooking up drum sticks and dunking them in BBQ sauce etc.. lol

i am talking boneless skinless chicken breast grilled or cooked without oils etc..

for healthy fats you could add in fish oils or just have a piece of salmon here and there. still gotta watch cals, just watch the cals and do it with real food.
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-07-11, 04:56 PM
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Sounds like you are bang on the money - hard work! I was more concerned about the gym aspect and thought I had the other bases covered with the supplements.

Does my routine sound ok as a starting point? I turned 40 3 days ago and I;m under no illusions, but I would like to gain some mass while losing the beer belly that I've invested in over the last 15 year's!

Thanks again for your time and help
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Bouncer
Old 11-07-11, 05:13 PM
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Routine is fine bro. The key is consistency. If you work really hard for months an then give up for a few weeks and then get back into it again all will be lost.

This is not a diet or a routine. This is a lifestyle bro. If you want to look a certain way you have to live it.
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Scrumhalf
Old 11-07-11, 05:54 PM
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Don't let age be an excuse, bro. Not saying you are, but you don't want to go in with the attitude that I am forty, so I can't be expected to have good results.

I am 45 and I try to bring it to the gym (or the trail) every day.

Use fitday.com to make an HONEST assessment of what your calorie consumption is per day. People are notorious at estimating calories and almost always underestimate what they are eating.

Your BMR is 2100 and assuming a sedentary lifestyle (multiplier of 1.2), your daily caloric requirement is 2500 calories. In your case, since you were consuming so many meal replacement shakes, etc. accurate calorie estimation may be less of an issue. Regardless, you might want to make sure you don't exceed 2000 calories since you don't have too much head room. In fact, you absolutely MUST keep the cardio. That's the only way you are likely to hit a 1000 calorie deficit which would be good for weight loss.
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henry
Old 11-07-11, 07:28 PM
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Id definately listen to bouncer and scrum in terms of diet but i think you should definately up the reps in your weights even if that means dropping the weight. If you are trying to burn fat you need to definately up your squats 5 sets of 5 is doing nothing thats a warm up smash out sets of 20 and watch your weight drop.

also its virtually impossible to naturally drop fat and put on muscle. while you will see strength increase focus on keeping your heart rate up during weights and cardio then when you are at an appropriate body fat level focus on your strength and size.
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-08-11, 02:36 AM
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Routine is fine bro. The key is consistency. If you work really hard for months an then give up for a few weeks and then get back into it again all will be lost.

This is not a diet or a routine. This is a lifestyle bro. If you want to look a certain way you have to live it.
Thanks fella.

I have the determination, its patience I lack!

I've tried all sorts of routines and supplements over the past few months, trying to find what works.

I'll put your advice into action and see how I get on! Thanks again mate
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-08-11, 02:38 AM
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Routine is fine bro. The key is consistency. If you work really hard for months an then give up for a few weeks and then get back into it again all will be lost.

This is not a diet or a routine. This is a lifestyle bro. If you want to look a certain way you have to live it.
Thanks fella.

I have the determination, its patience I lack!

I've tried all sorts of routines and supplements over the past few months, trying to find what works.
Not looking for a quick fix (that would be nice though!) but to just be on the correct path.
I'll put your advice into action and see how I get on! Thanks again mate
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Scrumhalf
Old 11-08-11, 08:09 AM
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There is no quick fix. Give it 6 months. Don't lose patience after a few weeks.
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auri
Old 11-08-11, 08:56 AM
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You've got a great attitude. And your cologne smells like heaven.
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-08-11, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by henrysiek View Post
Id definately listen to bouncer and scrum in terms of diet but i think you should definately up the reps in your weights even if that means dropping the weight. If you are trying to burn fat you need to definately up your squats 5 sets of 5 is doing nothing thats a warm up smash out sets of 20 and watch your weight drop.

also its virtually impossible to naturally drop fat and put on muscle. while you will see strength increase focus on keeping your heart rate up during weights and cardio then when you are at an appropriate body fat level focus on your strength and size.
I did wonder if the 5x5 routine would help, so I dropped most of the routine except for the squats and bench press. I'll drop the weights tomorrow and get in more reps.
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Scrumhalf
Old 11-08-11, 01:03 PM
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No, don't do things like 5x5. Just do some solid lifting 8-10 reps. Wendler is great, but 5x5 is a strength routine that is is periodized to enable advanced lifters aiming for continued gains. I don't think you need anything complex at this time. The only thing you need is CONSISTENCY, both in lifting and cardio.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't see Henry's reference to 5x5 above. I thought you were talking specifically about Wendler's 5x5 routine. I still think you should keep things simple - 8-10 reps. No need to get super fancy at this stage.

Also, I don't quite agree that it isn't possible to drop fat and gain muscle at the same time. I think it is possible for beginners, which I believe you are. After you have been lifting for a year or two, then sure it becomes a lot harder, at least naturally.
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-08-11, 01:48 PM
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No, don't do things like 5x5. Just do some solid lifting 8-10 reps. Wendler is great, but 5x5 is a strength routine that is is periodized to enable advanced lifters aiming for continued gains. I don't think you need anything complex at this time. The only thing you need is CONSISTENCY, both in lifting and cardio.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't see Henry's reference to 5x5 above. I thought you were talking specifically about Wendler's 5x5 routine. I still think you should keep things simple - 8-10 reps. No need to get super fancy at this stage.

Also, I don't quite agree that it isn't possible to drop fat and gain muscle at the same time. I think it is possible for beginners, which I believe you are. After you have been lifting for a year or two, then sure it becomes a lot harder, at least naturally.
The 5x5's are gone as of tomorrow.

I'm a lot more determined now to continue from the advice you've (and Bouncer) have given me on this thread.


Cheers
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-08-11, 02:11 PM
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You've got a great attitude. And your cologne smells like heaven.
Thanks for that - you saved me starting a new thread regarding my cologne!
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GrowthMan
Old 11-08-11, 03:11 PM
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Training routine is irrelevant. Grab some weight and lift the shit.

Save your supplement money and use that for groceries. If you are trying to gain muscle you will need to cut the shakes out. Replace the shakes with the following and watch magic happen.

(For starters)...

4 egg whites/1 whole egg
1 Cup oats
1/2 slices toast with one Tbsp jam (sugar ok)

Chicken or Steak (6oz min or more ok)
1 Cup Rice or 8 oz red potato
1/2 Cup Green veg of your choice

Same

Same

Shake or better yet same as meal 1 no toast no jam.

Steak no more than once/day. Chicken twice. Play with rice types and red potatos to see which carb assimilates better, fills you out better. On paper it doesn't seem like much, but since you were drinking your food before this will feel like a lot of food. Don't worry, your metabolism will be on fire.

Try this for 3 weeks and you will thank me.
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henry
Old 11-08-11, 04:47 PM
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listen to henry or me in terms of tren
hahahahhaa definately worth a thought

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fatboyatkins
Old 11-08-11, 05:22 PM
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Training routine is irrelevant. Grab some weight and lift the shit.

Save your supplement money and use that for groceries. If you are trying to gain muscle you will need to cut the shakes out. Replace the shakes with the following and watch magic happen.

(For starters)...

4 egg whites/1 whole egg
1 Cup oats
1/2 slices toast with one Tbsp jam (sugar ok)

Chicken or Steak (6oz min or more ok)
1 Cup Rice or 8 oz red potato
1/2 Cup Green veg of your choice

Same

Same

Shake or better yet same as meal 1 no toast no jam.

Steak no more than once/day. Chicken twice. Play with rice types and red potatos to see which carb assimilates better, fills you out better. On paper it doesn't seem like much, but since you were drinking your food before this will feel like a lot of food. Don't worry, your metabolism will be on fire.

Try this for 3 weeks and you will thank me.
Crikey your right it does sound like a lot!

Is pasta any good instead of rice or potatoes?
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Scrumhalf
Old 11-08-11, 05:33 PM
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Pasta is fine. Make it whole wheat pasta if you like instead of brown rice. Frankly none of these things matter too much until you are under 15% BF.
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-09-11, 01:54 AM
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Pasta is fine. Make it whole wheat pasta if you like instead of brown rice. Frankly none of these things matter too much until you are under 15% BF.
Under 15% BF - that's a target, I'm currently a shameful 36% :(
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Scrumhalf
Old 11-09-11, 08:22 AM
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If your bodyfat is that high, none of the things you are worrying about matter WHATSOEVER. Run a 1000 Kcal deficit. If you have time, try to do some kind of cardio for 45 min to 1 hour a day. If you can lift 3-4 times a week. Keep the protein high, say 1-1.5 g/lb of bodyweight. Maybe shoot for a 40%/40%/20% split of Carbs/Protein/Fat calories. Run a 1000 Kcal deficit.

Don't worry about what brand of pasta you are eating, whether your post workout shake has the right amount of carbs in it or not, and whether you are eating 3 meals or 8 meals a day. None of those things matter at this stage.

Did I mention running a 1000 Kcal deficit? Seriously, the place where most people fail is watching what they eat. It's the miscellaneous stuff here and there that will deep-six you. Driving by the mall and have the urge to get that venti mocha frappuchino? Bad news. Reach for a 32 oz soda and get the non-diet variety? Bad news. Tub of buttered popocorn at the movies? Bad news.

Well, let me correct myself. All of these things by themselves are not necessarily killer (although garbage) AS LONG AS YOU ACCOUNT FOR THEM IN YOUR DAILY CALORIC INTAKE. That's where most people fail. They don't honestly account for half their calories and wonder whey they aren't losing weight.

Eating in moderation and staying physically active is a lifestyle bro. Make the change today and you'll feel infinitely better in even a couple of months, and if you stick with it, you won't recognize yourself in a year.
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Bouncer
Old 11-09-11, 08:29 AM
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Agree with scrum, get the fat off first and foremost. Forget gaining muscle right now.
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-09-11, 12:14 PM
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If your bodyfat is that high, none of the things you are worrying about matter WHATSOEVER. Run a 1000 Kcal deficit. If you have time, try to do some kind of cardio for 45 min to 1 hour a day. If you can lift 3-4 times a week. Keep the protein high, say 1-1.5 g/lb of bodyweight. Maybe shoot for a 40%/40%/20% split of Carbs/Protein/Fat calories. Run a 1000 Kcal deficit.

Don't worry about what brand of pasta you are eating, whether your post workout shake has the right amount of carbs in it or not, and whether you are eating 3 meals or 8 meals a day. None of those things matter at this stage.

Did I mention running a 1000 Kcal deficit? Seriously, the place where most people fail is watching what they eat. It's the miscellaneous stuff here and there that will deep-six you. Driving by the mall and have the urge to get that venti mocha frappuchino? Bad news. Reach for a 32 oz soda and get the non-diet variety? Bad news. Tub of buttered popocorn at the movies? Bad news.

Well, let me correct myself. All of these things by themselves are not necessarily killer (although garbage) AS LONG AS YOU ACCOUNT FOR THEM IN YOUR DAILY CALORIC INTAKE. That's where most people fail. They don't honestly account for half their calories and wonder whey they aren't losing weight.

Eating in moderation and staying physically active is a lifestyle bro. Make the change today and you'll feel infinitely better in even a couple of months, and if you stick with it, you won't recognize yourself in a year.
My initial weight loss was really good, losing 14lbs in the 1st month. then zilch after.
After doing some research on the net I thought that my calorie deficit may have been too much, slowing my metabolism.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, bearing in mind my starvation mode conclusion I have aimed to consume between 2000 and 2500 calories per day.
The carbs was something I also avoided like the plague, eating mainly tins of tuna or sardines twice a day. With a chicken/rice/veg meal in the evening.
Looking back I think the main contributor to the weight loss was water, drinking at least 3 litres per day.

My main goal is to gain muscle mass, but I'll focus on the fat 1st. I know fat don't turn to muscle but I hopeed that muscle growth will increase metabolism and help lose the fat.
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Bouncer
Old 11-09-11, 12:23 PM
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i can tell ya what happened bro. you went from eating junk to eating clean and your body dropped the initial fat and water quick. you dropped down into to much of a starvation type mode and killed the metabolism.

need to slowly bring the metabolism back with adding in a bunch more calories.

do as scrum says and you will be thankful you did.
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-09-11, 12:28 PM
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Agree with scrum, get the fat off first and foremost. Forget gaining muscle right now.
Should I stick to my current routine reducing the weight but increase the reps?
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Scrumhalf
Old 11-09-11, 12:33 PM
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My advice to you is to do your weights in the 40 min you have at lunchtime and wake up a half hour earlier to do an hour of cardio in the morning. Stick to 1 compound movement and 1 isolation movement per body part, 8-10 reps. Keep notes and try to bump up the weight slightly (2.5-5lbs) every workout if you can and feel like you can do so. Important thing, don't push too hard and end up getting hurt, but at the same time, don't stagnate doing the same weights over and over again without pushing the envelope.
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fatboyatkins
Old 11-10-11, 10:04 AM
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My advice to you is to do your weights in the 40 min you have at lunchtime and wake up a half hour earlier to do an hour of cardio in the morning. Stick to 1 compound movement and 1 isolation movement per body part, 8-10 reps. Keep notes and try to bump up the weight slightly (2.5-5lbs) every workout if you can and feel like you can do so. Important thing, don't push too hard and end up getting hurt, but at the same time, don't stagnate doing the same weights over and over again without pushing the envelope.
Thanks Scrumhalf - I'll update my routine and my diet. I'm certainly glad I started this thread as the advice I was give before was to increase my calories to 3,500 per day!
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