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Old 08-16-16, 06:52 PM
Phenibut
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NUTRITIONSUPPLEMENTS
Phenibut: The Soviet smart drug
1963, St.Petersburg, Russia – A Soviet Union lab scientist by the name of Perekalin synthesizes 3-phenyl-4-aminobutyric acid, an experimental drug intended to calm psychiatric children.

1964 – Professor Khaunma labels the drug Phenigamma and reports the first findings of its tranquilizing effects in the Byulleten Eksperimental’noi Biologii i Meditsiny.

1975 – Phenigamma has spread from clinical practice to public use under the name of Phenibut. The Soviet Ministry mandates its use for astronauts in space flights due to the drug’s revolutionary psychologically calming yet cognitively stimulating effects.

2001 – Over 300 scientific publications have studied Phenibut’s nootropic and pharmacological properties.

2014 – Phenibut is used all over the globe as a smart drug, mood enhancer, sleep aid and recovery booster.



Phenibut Structure



Wait, why is a meathead writing about a smart drug?
Because bodybuilding is driven by more than improving your physique. It is a lifestyle of self-improvement. The Ancient Greeks were known for their philosophy that education should encompass physical as well as mental training. The Romans knew it. There was little distinction between education and physical training in the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment, but today most people don’t even realize that ‘gym’ stands for gymnasium and bodybuilding has turned from educational virtue to intellectual vice.



Tavi Castro Roman Bodybuilding



Phenibut’s effects
Phenibut is a derivative of GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid). GABA is the primary neurotransmitter in your body that regulates the neuronal excitability of the central nervous system. Basically, GABA makes sure that your brain does not become hyperactive.

Why not just supplement with GABA directly then? Phenibut crosses the blood-brain barrier more effectively than GABA itself in supplement form. GABA is naturally produced in the brain itself, therefore it normally does not need to cross the blood-brain barrier to be effective [1].

In humans, Phenibut supplementation has 2 main effects [2, 3, 4].

It is a nootropic (smart drug). Phenibut primarily increases motivation, attention and concentration with a weaker effect on memory and little effect on overall intelligence.
It is a strong anxiolytic (anxiety killer). Phenibut is used to treat panic attacks, stuttering, Parkinson’s disease, neuroses, vestibular (balance) disorders, spasticity, epilepsy, hyperactivity, insomnia and post-traumatic stress disorder. Pick-up artists use Phenibut to shake the nerves of cold-approaching beautiful women.
Both are the result of Phenibut’s effect on the activity of your nervous system.

In addition, Phenibut has mood enhancing effects. It has thymoleptic (anti-depressant) properties and can reduce irritability and fatigue. It is clinically used to treat asthenic-depressive syndrome. [2]

These psychoactive effects are similar in mechanism to alcohol but without the depressant effects. In the upper/downer classification of drugs, alcohol is a downer, but Phenibut is neither. Phenibut gives you focus and calmth without the jitters of caffeine or the cloudiness of alcohol.

Phenibut’s effects can easily last the rest of the day, even though Phenibut’s plasma half-life is only 5.3 hours [2]. This is because Phenibut’s action on the GABA receptors can linger long after your kidneys have excreted all the Phenibut [16, 17].



Not just for Astronauts
Phenibut has a few more effects that are particularly relevant for bodybuilders.

Phenibut can increase resting and post-exercise growth hormone secretion. In a study of weight training men, GABA supplementation increased resting growth hormone concentrations by 375%. Post-exercise growth hormone concentration rose by 175%. Baclofen, which works almost exactly the same as Phenibut, also increases growth hormone synthesis. [5, 6, 7, 8]
Phenibut is anti-hypoxic. When you train a muscle intensely, it can’t get enough oxygen anymore and become hypoxic. This metabolic stress mediates muscle hypertrophy. Phenibut may thus increase your tolerance to metabolic stress and allow you to train harder. [2]
Phenibut is neuroprotective and augments cell energy potential, again possibly allowing you to train harder. [2]
One study also found that Phenibut increased muscle strength, but this finding is likely limited to neurotic and psychotic individuals, because the above study in resistance trained males did not find an increase in weight lifted [5, 6, 9]. You shouldn’t think of Phenibut as a typical ergogenic or performance enhancer anyway. In fact, as I’ll discuss in the dosage section below, excessive Phenibut intake can decrease your performance. Rather, think of Phenibut as a recovery enhancer and don’t expect miracles from it.

In my experience, Phenibut works best in very lean individuals. Phenibut can counteract the natural decrease in growth hormone production associated with being lean. This will help your joints stay healthy and keep your metabolism high. Phenibut’s mood enhancing effects are also very beneficial here, as anyone who’s ever been below 7% body fat will be able to tell you.



The optimal Phenibut dosage
The vast majority of studies have only researched dosages up to 3 grams a day. At these dosages, no psychological side effects are found [2, 10]. However, many people take much higher dosages for longer periods of time. This is the same more is better fallacy that leads people to drastically overestimate how much protein they need per day and become addicted to caffeine. Like caffeine, Phenibut feels great and seems harmless, so people consume high amounts of it on a regular basis. The result is addiction: tolerance to the good effects and withdrawal when ceasing supplementation. And they pay the price. Phenibut withdrawal is hell. When coming off 20 grams a day, you can literally become psychotic for a while [13]. Tapering off the dose will minimize withdrawal symptoms, but my recommendation is to avoid becoming addicted in the first place.

To find the optimal Phenibut dosage, we have to look at the extensive research on animals and calculate the human equivalent dose by correcting for the interspecies difference in metabolism. The 3 step formula below converts an animal dose to its human equivalent. This can be used for any compound, not just Phenibut. I know it’s a bit technical, so I’ve created a Phenibut dosage calculator that does the math for you.

Your Body Surface Area (m²) = 0.007331 x Height (cm)0.725 x Weight (kg)0.425 [11, 12] It’s important to calculate your BSA and not use 1.6 as a default, because this will lead to an underestimation in bodybuilders and an overdose in lean women.
Your Km factor = Weight (kg) / body surface area (m2) [14]
Multiply the animal dosage by the animal’s Km factor divided by your own Km factor to get the human equivalent dose [14].
Calculate the HED for 70 mg/kg in mice for the pre-workout/side effects dosage threshold and use 200 for the addiction threshold.


Phenibut HED Dosage



Using 3 grams of Phenibut a day consistently results in a strong tolerance to Phenibut’s effects and withdrawal when no longer taking the drug [2, 17]. Addiction takes less than 10 days to develop [16, 17]. A 5’10” (1.78 m) adult weighing 176 lb (80 kg) will develop a tolerance to using 1.2 grams of Phenibut a day [16]. It is unfortunately not known how low the Phenibut dose has to be not to result in addiction, so it’s best to err on the side of safety.

For athletes, I recommend keeping the dose very low on training days. Based on the above stats, just 0.4 gram of Phenibut decreases motor cortex activity, muscle tone, coordination and body temperature. I already explained how these factors contribute to the best time to work out, so limit your pre-workout dosage to less than half a gram.

Phenibut can be a wonderful drug, but it is not to be trifled with. In short, don’t be an idiot. This may seem like common sense, but “if sense were common, everyone would have it”. In fact, it bears repeating. Don’t be an idiot. Use the above formulas to calculate the best Phenibut dosage for your goal. Limit your pre-workout dosage to ~0.5 gram, your daily dosage to ~1 gram and never consume more than ~3 grams unless you know exactly what you’re doing.

Perhaps most importantly, Phenibut’s effects are highly mediated by stress and anxiety. So your personality type and the situation strongly determine how much benefit you will experience from Phenibut. If you are not in a stressful or social situation and you have a naturally calm personality, you may not feel anything from Phenibut unless you take several grams. So experimentation and timing is everything to find the dosage that works for you. It’s a drug, not some supplement you take daily just to take it.



Buying Phenibut
Phenibut is a legal dietary supplement in practically every country and is generally available over the counter. This is another reason why people underestimate it. There is almost no relation whatsoever between the legal status and the safety of drugs. Seriously, don’t be naive, learn to think for yourself and stop blindly internalizing what your government tells you. Phenibut is one of those drugs that fortunately seems to have slipped through the (many) cracks of legislation, but this won’t be for long if more idiots start mega-dosing the stuff and the media gets a hold of someone hallucinating in a McDonald’s pointing at fat people and hysterically shouting at the manager “It’s alive!”



Fat people everywhere



Anyway, Phenibut can be tricky to obtain despite it being legal. Most supplement stores and Amazon don’t carry it anymore. Enter my secret supplement buying method: eBay. Don’t bother with the auctions. Just find a top rated seller for ‘Buy it now’.



Take-home messages
Phenibut is a smart drug, mood enhancer, sleep aid and recovery booster.
You can buy it on eBay.
Use the formulas in this article to calculate the maximum dose you can use without side effects or addiction.

Sauce: Phenibut: The Soviet smart drug
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Old 08-16-16, 08:48 PM
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Ok here's my experience

250mg - nothing
500mg - Not much maybe slight relaxation might be placebo.
1000mg - more relaxation talkative
2000mg - good euphoria, talkative, comparable to 3 or 4 shots of hard liquor in terms of feeling good. But still operational no impact on motor skills.
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Old 08-17-16, 02:40 AM
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Be careful with this stuff. I wouldn't take more than 1000mg and wouldn't take it more than twice per week. It's basically the active form of Gaba. Great for relaxation and sleep and overall sense of calmness and well being but highly addictive, like xanax.
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Old 08-17-16, 07:09 AM
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I've been taking Somatomax for many years now. I take 1/2 scoop every evening. Bad thing is I have know idea how much phenibut is in a serving. Without it I wouldn't sleep. I never feel any of the side effects you mention above. I just wake up less throughout the night than if I didn't take it. Never felt it enhanced my mood or ever made me feel like I took 3-4 shots. I'm guessing I'm using much less than you.
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Old 08-17-16, 08:17 AM
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Be careful with this stuff. I wouldn't take more than 1000mg and wouldn't take it more than twice per week. It's basically the active form of Gaba. Great for relaxation and sleep and overall sense of calmness and well being but highly addictive, like xanax.
Yep I agree. I prefer kratom to phenibut so I dont take it often.
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Old 08-17-16, 08:20 AM
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I've been taking Somatomax for many years now. I take 1/2 scoop every evening. Bad thing is I have know idea how much phenibut is in a serving. Without it I wouldn't sleep. I never feel any of the side effects you mention above. I just wake up less throughout the night than if I didn't take it. Never felt it enhanced my mood or ever made me feel like I took 3-4 shots. I'm guessing I'm using much less than you.
Man only 20 servings and its expensive. Im also not a fan of proprietary blends. My guess is no more than 500mg per scoop.
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Old 08-17-16, 08:40 AM
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Where do you get your phenibut from? Maybe I'll just try that instead of the Somatomax. The problem becomes dosing. I guess I'll start low and increase if needed.
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Old 08-17-16, 09:55 AM
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Where do you get your phenibut from? Maybe I'll just try that instead of the Somatomax. The problem becomes dosing. I guess I'll start low and increase if needed.
Liftmode.com and I get the free amino acid form.
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Old 08-17-16, 10:05 AM
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This?

https://liftmode.com/review/product/...tegory/16/?p=1
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Old 08-17-16, 10:30 AM
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Be careful with this stuff. I wouldn't take more than 1000mg and wouldn't take it more than twice per week. It's basically the active form of Gaba. Great for relaxation and sleep and overall sense of calmness and well being but highly addictive, like xanax.
If I recall it can even trigger a false positive on a drug test fro benzodiazapenes.
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Old 08-17-16, 10:39 AM
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Yep and they have smaller tubs too if you wanna sample it in case you don't like it.
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Old 08-17-16, 10:40 AM
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If I recall it can even trigger a false positive on a drug test fro benzodiazapenes.
Interesting. I wonder what the time window is on that half life is low so no more than a few days I'm guessing and its water soluble.
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Old 08-17-16, 10:48 AM
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Thanks man. I'm sure it's a much cheaper way of using it. Hopefully it works just as well.
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Old 08-17-16, 11:41 AM
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If you guys are using it every day, you will most likely get anxiety, depression and panic attacks if you go off it.

By the way powder city is another legit place to get it. Probably cheaper too:

Phenibut Dosage - Buy Phenibut Online | Powder City
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Old 08-17-16, 11:59 AM
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I've been taking it for 10 years now. Unless there are bad long term effects I don't plan to stop. It's the only way I can get some sleep at night. I've tried almost everything too. I still don't sleep great but better.
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Old 08-17-16, 12:05 PM
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I've been taking it for 10 years now. Unless there are bad long term effects I don't plan to stop. It's the only way I can get some sleep at night. I've tried almost everything too. I still don't sleep great but better.
The reason you can't sleep without it is because it's highly addictive. I bet if you went off it for a week or two you'd be a mess and it would be more than just sleep. Probably hella anxiety. Also if you can't sleep without a substance, that's a problem.

I'd seriously consider trying to slowly come off it. Do some research on the addictive properties of it. Basically you've now got neurtransmitter issues if you can't sleep/function without it. Good Luck.

Some reading material:

http://www.brainprotips.com/phenibut-high/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/...nibut_dangers/

Last edited by M00chie69; 08-17-16 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 08-17-16, 12:30 PM
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So where are the medical studies that show the long term effects of it??

I see where it says it's highly addictive. It's easy for you to say that I should come off it but if you only get 2-3 hours a night is it really worth it? I hate taking medications unless I absolutely have to but only a couple hours of sleep a night makes me almost useless the next day. Then the next and the next... 1/4 to 1/2 scoop of the somatomax really helps. Still not great but much better.
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Old 08-17-16, 01:21 PM
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So where are the medical studies that show the long term effects of it??

I see where it says it's highly addictive. It's easy for you to say that I should come off it but if you only get 2-3 hours a night is it really worth it? I hate taking medications unless I absolutely have to but only a couple hours of sleep a night makes me almost useless the next day. Then the next and the next... 1/4 to 1/2 scoop of the somatomax really helps. Still not great but much better.
Sounds stupid bro, but have you tried reading before bed? You know that helps right? Or is that you wake up constantly in the middle of the night?
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Old 08-17-16, 01:23 PM
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I can fall asleep but will wake up 2 hours later. I've tried almost everything. Even tried the strong sleeping medications. They made me feel half drunk, would knock me out but I would still be back up 2 hours later. Somatoax is the only thing that has helped me stay asleep. I still wake up 5-10 times a night but I can usually fall back to sleep.
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Old 08-17-16, 01:31 PM
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I can fall asleep but will wake up 2 hours later. I've tried almost everything. Even tried the strong sleeping medications. They made me feel half drunk, would knock me out but I would still be back up 2 hours later. Somatoax is the only thing that has helped me stay asleep. I still wake up 5-10 times a night but I can usually fall back to sleep.
Did you ever try ambien? Do you think the sleep is adversely affected or caused by running tren?
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Old 08-17-16, 03:09 PM
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Did you ever try ambien??
Highly addictive and works for a week then poof, no workie anymore...
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Old 08-17-16, 04:26 PM
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So where are the medical studies that show the long term effects of it??

I see where it says it's highly addictive. It's easy for you to say that I should come off it but if you only get 2-3 hours a night is it really worth it? I hate taking medications unless I absolutely have to but only a couple hours of sleep a night makes me almost useless the next day. Then the next and the next... 1/4 to 1/2 scoop of the somatomax really helps. Still not great but much better.
You say you've tried everything. By everything, do you mean you've tried every "substance"?

If you aren't sleeping good then something is wrong in your life. Look at Bouncer's story. He wasn't sleeping worth a shit and it was due to overtraining, gear, and taxing his nervous system. Have you tried taking some serious time off from the gym? Like 6 months or so and doing yoga, stretching, meditating, avoiding all caffeine, spending more time in nature and healing your central nervous system? Have you tried all of that? I can tell you that meditation is profound. Also you should turn off all electronics at night, all blue light at least 3 hours before you plan on going to bed. Reading fiction also helps because it turns the problem solving part of your brain off. Are you stressed at work?

What about neurofeedback training, specifically heart rate variability training? Did you read my story about 2013 when I started my business and took pretty much the whole year off from the gym and I never slept better that year? I've seen insomnia issues widespread in the bodybuilding/gear community and we all need to really look at what we are doing to our bodies and health. At the end of the day if you can't sleep then you're doing something wrong and you need to heal yourself. Try something different.

When you say you've tried everything, I'd question that.
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Old 08-17-16, 06:15 PM
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Highly addictive and works for a week then poof, no workie anymore...
Interesting.

If chad can smoke a good indica strain that will put him to sleep and its not addictive.
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Old 08-17-16, 06:17 PM
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Benzo withdrawls are no joke and that includes phenibut.


"A doctor can even use medications to help reduce withdrawal; with some serious drug problems, these medications are literally lifesavers. A doctor can also monitor your symptoms and increase your dosage of certain medications when needed. Withdrawal from benzodiazepines can kill; these are drugs like Xanax or Valium".
Apr 26, 2013
How Improperly Detoxing Can Kill You - ...
Drug Rehabs - Alcohol Rehab Centers - Rehabilitation Programs › how-improperly-deto...
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Old 08-17-16, 07:03 PM
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Interesting.

If chad can smoke a good indica strain that will put him to sleep and its not addictive.
When I went through my divorce late '08 early '09....I couldn't sleep or rest....I got put on ambien....you should of been around then, ask around about the shit I'd postalways had black outs and not even knowing about it had it not been for this site.

I would come here and read the shit I post, wow...otherwise I couldn't believe it

Stay clear from it....
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Old 08-17-16, 09:47 PM
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When I went through my divorce late '08 early '09....I couldn't sleep or rest....I got put on ambien....you should of been around then, ask around about the shit I'd postalways had black outs and not even knowing about it had it not been for this site.

I would come here and read the shit I post, wow...otherwise I couldn't believe it

Stay clear from it....
Wow no shit. Well man I wanna dig up some of your old posts. Some of the stuff I've been posting lately is clomid talking or feeling good on kratom.
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Old 08-18-16, 12:39 AM
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Chad check this out would order this when you order the Phenibut it sounds promising.

https://liftmode.com/baicalin-powder...pure-fblm.html
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Old 08-18-16, 06:13 AM
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Did you ever try ambien? Do you think the sleep is adversely affected or caused by running tren?
Yep, it knocked me out but I was back up in 2 hours then felt even worse.
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Old 08-18-16, 06:30 AM
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You say you've tried everything. By everything, do you mean you've tried every "substance"?

If you aren't sleeping good then something is wrong in your life. Look at Bouncer's story. He wasn't sleeping worth a shit and it was due to overtraining, gear, and taxing his nervous system. Have you tried taking some serious time off from the gym? Like 6 months or so and doing yoga, stretching, meditating, avoiding all caffeine, spending more time in nature and healing your central nervous system? Have you tried all of that? I can tell you that meditation is profound. Also you should turn off all electronics at night, all blue light at least 3 hours before you plan on going to bed. Reading fiction also helps because it turns the problem solving part of your brain off. Are you stressed at work?

What about neurofeedback training, specifically heart rate variability training? Did you read my story about 2013 when I started my business and took pretty much the whole year off from the gym and I never slept better that year? I've seen insomnia issues widespread in the bodybuilding/gear community and we all need to really look at what we are doing to our bodies and health. At the end of the day if you can't sleep then you're doing something wrong and you need to heal yourself. Try something different.

When you say you've tried everything, I'd question that.
I’ve tried:
Almost every substance natural and prescribed. Only thing that helps is the Somatomax.

Taking months off the gym (just recently too due to an injury) which if anything makes it worse

Stopped drinking coffee and eliminated all caffeine from my diet

Reading before bed

No electronic devices (tv, phone, laptop, ect…)

Playing white noise (this helps some)

I live out in the country and spend free time in the woods. Hunting season is soon here and I’ll be archery and rifle hunting soon.

I’m the kind of person who very rarely stresses over anything. It can piss my wife off at times. So my stress level is always very low.

Almost everyone on my dad’s side of the family only sleeps a couple hours a night.

So yes, I have tried a lot of different things. Everything? Probably not but a lot. Spoke to doctors about it. Attended a sleeping seminar a couple years ago. I just know it’s something that will always be a challenge so I try to deal with it the best way I know how. So if taking phenibut helps, I will continue to take it unless it is proven to cause me a lot of medical issues down the road.

It's easy for people to say you shouldn't be taking that for sleep unless they also have that struggle. Try sleeping for 3 hours a night for a month and tell me how you feel.
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Old 08-18-16, 08:38 AM
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I’ve tried:
Almost every substance natural and prescribed. Only thing that helps is the Somatomax.

Taking months off the gym (just recently too due to an injury) which if anything makes it worse

Stopped drinking coffee and eliminated all caffeine from my diet

Reading before bed

No electronic devices (tv, phone, laptop, ect…)

Playing white noise (this helps some)

I live out in the country and spend free time in the woods. Hunting season is soon here and I’ll be archery and rifle hunting soon.

I’m the kind of person who very rarely stresses over anything. It can piss my wife off at times. So my stress level is always very low.

Almost everyone on my dad’s side of the family only sleeps a couple hours a night.

So yes, I have tried a lot of different things. Everything? Probably not but a lot. Spoke to doctors about it. Attended a sleeping seminar a couple years ago. I just know it’s something that will always be a challenge so I try to deal with it the best way I know how. So if taking phenibut helps, I will continue to take it unless it is proven to cause me a lot of medical issues down the road.

It's easy for people to say you shouldn't be taking that for sleep unless they also have that struggle. Try sleeping for 3 hours a night for a month and tell me how you feel.
Damn bro....well then just jump off a bridge then, you got no other options. :wave:

Hereditary sleeping issues? If you remember back in early 2000, I use to post about horrible sleeping issues, similar to yours.
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Old 08-18-16, 10:03 AM
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I can relate to this thread on a few fronts. The sleeping issue and the substance issues that help or don't help.

Chadd, I know exactly what your talking about. There is a huge difference between falling asleep and staying asleep. Sleeping pills make me tired as hell but just like you I will be wide awake in a few hours.

My sleeping issues are largely due to pain (muscle tightness, spasms, knots in rhomboids/scapula area) and for me the only drug/supp that has really helped has been valium. Not only does it specifically work for muscle spasms but it also acts as a tranquilizer and really helps to knock your ass out when you need it.

Having said that, I realize Valium is a bit extreme to use just for sleeping issues. I also realize it's gonna be a bitch to come off of but as of right now there is nothing else I can do. I can't wait for my trigger point/spasm injections. Really hoping that combined with stretching and keeping my CNS from being over taxed will mean I can eventually come off the meds.
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