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Posted on AM by BigCat in a response to a poll.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showt...213#post129213
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showt...213#post129213
Ok, first of all, I would like to personally correct myself and my profile here. I no longer recommend Dbol over Anadrol. I don't actually recommend either, but anadrol is definitely a better product. What I said however is still accurate, mg per mg dbol does usually lead to bigger gains, 50 mg of dbol having more effect than 50 mg of anadrol.
But anadrol is clearly a better product. First of all, don't use either without combining with at least testosterone and/or another potent androgen. Neither exerts any mentionable androgenic effect, so it would be stupid to ommit an androgen that would be highly synergistic. Both these drugs exert their anabolism through their estrogenic effects. But Dbol does by conversion ti 17-alpha-methyl-estradiol, and anadrol does so by directly binding the estrogen receptor. That makes anadrol's effects much more reliable and dose-dependent, and unlike with 17AA estradiol, anadrol cannot convert to less positive estrogens like estrone.
In muscle, estradiol receptor agonists can activate skeletal muscle RAS. RAS stands for renin-angiotensin system whereby renin converts angiotensigogen to angiotensin I and Angiotensin Converting enzyme (ACE) converts AngI to AngII. AngII then works on two receptors, the AT1 receptor being the most relevant here, the AT2 has slight inhibitory properties.
The work of Jones and Woodward on skeletal muscle RAS clearly portrays a role for AngII in muscle hypertrophy, not only leading to direct anabolic effects in regards to muscular hypertrophy and strength gains, but also long term in terms of fiber-type switching. RAS activation leads to more Type IIb muscle fibers that are more prone to explosive strength gains and faster hypertrophic response. So these low-androgenic, high estrogenic drugs not only augment hypertrophy, but also what type of hypertrophy and will eventually speed up future muscle gain.
Estrogen's, and especially anadrol then, will activate RAS in a dose-dependent manner. This is quite evident from the dose-dependent increase in RAS-specific side-effects such as increased water retention (through RAS mediated aldosterone release), increase blood pressure (throug AngII and aldosterone) and headaches (as a result of the hypertension). Having said that, I have also adressed the major negatives of these drugs.
In conclusion :
- I recommend neither anadrol or dbol
- I would only use them in combo with a strong androgen (test and/or tren)
- Dbol is stronger mg for mg, but anadrol is the better drug
- Both these drugs, and anadrol being the better, bring specific problems with them such as hypertension and water retention
On a side note, water retention and hypertension can be reduced but not completely abolished, with specific aldosterone inhibitors, such as eplenorone (not sure on spelling).
And estrogens also have other anabolic effects, but only for RAS activation can we assume they are dose-responsive.
Gains from these products, directly at least, are very hard to keep. But gains from Drol are more maintainable than those of Dbol. They will however result in better and more keepable gains in future cycles due to increased fiber-type switching. The opposite is true for anti-estrogen fanatics. You are probably not just paying more for something you quite likely don't even need, you are shooting yourself in the foot and actually paying more for less gains. Anti-e's should only be used in people particularly prone to estrogenic sides (an absolute minority, most can tolerate 750 mg of test a week without signs of gyno) and when you do, opt for a SERM rather than an anti-aromatase.
__________________
Good things come to those who weight
But anadrol is clearly a better product. First of all, don't use either without combining with at least testosterone and/or another potent androgen. Neither exerts any mentionable androgenic effect, so it would be stupid to ommit an androgen that would be highly synergistic. Both these drugs exert their anabolism through their estrogenic effects. But Dbol does by conversion ti 17-alpha-methyl-estradiol, and anadrol does so by directly binding the estrogen receptor. That makes anadrol's effects much more reliable and dose-dependent, and unlike with 17AA estradiol, anadrol cannot convert to less positive estrogens like estrone.
In muscle, estradiol receptor agonists can activate skeletal muscle RAS. RAS stands for renin-angiotensin system whereby renin converts angiotensigogen to angiotensin I and Angiotensin Converting enzyme (ACE) converts AngI to AngII. AngII then works on two receptors, the AT1 receptor being the most relevant here, the AT2 has slight inhibitory properties.
The work of Jones and Woodward on skeletal muscle RAS clearly portrays a role for AngII in muscle hypertrophy, not only leading to direct anabolic effects in regards to muscular hypertrophy and strength gains, but also long term in terms of fiber-type switching. RAS activation leads to more Type IIb muscle fibers that are more prone to explosive strength gains and faster hypertrophic response. So these low-androgenic, high estrogenic drugs not only augment hypertrophy, but also what type of hypertrophy and will eventually speed up future muscle gain.
Estrogen's, and especially anadrol then, will activate RAS in a dose-dependent manner. This is quite evident from the dose-dependent increase in RAS-specific side-effects such as increased water retention (through RAS mediated aldosterone release), increase blood pressure (throug AngII and aldosterone) and headaches (as a result of the hypertension). Having said that, I have also adressed the major negatives of these drugs.
In conclusion :
- I recommend neither anadrol or dbol
- I would only use them in combo with a strong androgen (test and/or tren)
- Dbol is stronger mg for mg, but anadrol is the better drug
- Both these drugs, and anadrol being the better, bring specific problems with them such as hypertension and water retention
On a side note, water retention and hypertension can be reduced but not completely abolished, with specific aldosterone inhibitors, such as eplenorone (not sure on spelling).
And estrogens also have other anabolic effects, but only for RAS activation can we assume they are dose-responsive.
Gains from these products, directly at least, are very hard to keep. But gains from Drol are more maintainable than those of Dbol. They will however result in better and more keepable gains in future cycles due to increased fiber-type switching. The opposite is true for anti-estrogen fanatics. You are probably not just paying more for something you quite likely don't even need, you are shooting yourself in the foot and actually paying more for less gains. Anti-e's should only be used in people particularly prone to estrogenic sides (an absolute minority, most can tolerate 750 mg of test a week without signs of gyno) and when you do, opt for a SERM rather than an anti-aromatase.
__________________
Good things come to those who weight
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