PCT question

[murdyO]

I started out doing 400mg of qv cyp, after week 4 I started icn at 500mg per week.I am gonna trow in some winny toward the end at 30mged of bd tabs. Gonna run the test for 14 weeks. I was planning on taking clomid and nolv. but I am considering hcg. Will clomid be sufficient for this cycle?? My next cycle I will be running eq or deca or maybe fina with some test and I will probably use hcg during cycle to combat shrinkage. This is my third cycle. My others mainly were test and winny and I used clomid pct on them.





thanx

[shortz]

It will be "sufficient" but not really "efficient". You should have Nolva on hand to begin with. As for Hcg, it's jut an added bonus to any cycle that shuts you down.

[jipped genes]

i think clomid and nolva together work better than clomid by itself. as for hcg, i feel its as important as nolva or clomid for pct.

[LuvMuhRoids]

Make sure you dont not run HCG along side clomid. Clomid is hindered by HCG. You can try running HCG after last injection at 500 iu's for two weeks then administer clomid nolva PCT. Also, can administer HCG anytime during the cycle mainly towards the end for two weeks. HCG definitely is not a fix to restoration but only aids in restoring testicular atrophy. It mimics LH but does not restore it. The clomid/nolva combo is ideal for this.

[Skyefire]

SWALES PCT protocol(taken for a post at AM by theprolangtum)
Origional link used: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/show...swales+protocol

Since this is the current hot topic, I figured I would post this:



Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

[the_inkslinger]

So swales thinks not to run Nolva AND Clomid just Nolva and HCG for the first 2 weeks..
I am goingto go the Nolva route this cycle but not sure if I should run it with clomid or not... seems like there is alot of controversy about this..

[LuvMuhRoids]

I've read swales pct before and I disagree with his opinion. The novla/clomid is a neccessity in PCT as I will explain.

Nolva is the dominating SERM in pct. Both nolva and clomid are SERMS but tissue specific or selective to certain areas. The case of clomid v nolva is clomid is a weak anti-estrogen blocker as opposed to nolvadex but clomid is needed to stimulate LH levels back to normal thus it's specific use. Nolvadex is selective in this aspect that it's main purpose as studies show is a weak estrogen and binds to receptors during PCT.

Nolvadex is needed for what I call the estrogen back lash one will recieve during the off time right after a cycle. When androgen levels drop estrogen flushs the receptors and nolvadex is needed. To not hinder gains or keep them longer, it is suggestable to restore the balance as quick as possible. Clomid is suggestable for this even though clomid is an anti-estrogen as well this is shown to be not it's selection.

To conclude, both SERMS are neccessary for proper restoration and serve both purposes needed in PCT. One, clomid to restore LH levels back to normal. Two, nolvadex to act as the anti-estrogen and block the flush.

[LuvMuhRoids]

To further explain. I have an article written im more specific and explanation. Please follow this link.

http://www.bigdogbodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=99

Originally posted by LuvMuhRoids
I've read swales pct before and I disagree with his opinion. The novla/clomid is a neccessity in PCT as I will explain.

Nolva is the dominating SERM in pct. Both nolva and clomid are SERMS but tissue specific or selective to certain areas. The case of clomid v nolva is clomid is a weak anti-estrogen blocker as opposed to nolvadex but clomid is needed to stimulate LH levels back to normal thus it's specific use. Nolvadex is selective in this aspect that it's main purpose as studies show is a weak estrogen and binds to receptors during PCT.

Nolvadex is needed for what I call the estrogen back lash one will recieve during the off time right after a cycle. When androgen levels drop estrogen flushs the receptors and nolvadex is needed. To not hinder gains or keep them longer, it is suggestable to restore the balance as quick as possible. Clomid is suggestable for this even though clomid is an anti-estrogen as well this is shown to be not it's selection.

To conclude, both SERMS are neccessary for proper restoration and serve both purposes needed in PCT. One, clomid to restore LH levels back to normal. Two, nolvadex to act as the anti-estrogen and block the flush.