Got some Pregnyll...now I just need help with the dose.

[spidey]

Exceeding 15 weeks by how long? What is your cycle history? How old are you?

[Skyefire]

Origional link used: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/show...swales+protocol

Since this is the current hot topic, I figured I would post this:



Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

[murdyO]

Originally posted by spidey
Exceeding 15 weeks by how long? What is your cycle history? How old are you?

I am at 15 weeks now and thinking about staying on till sept. , oct. This is my third cycle. All have been test, did dbol last time and winny all three times. I am 29 years old. My nads have shrunk very little but I always thought that that didnt mean you were not shut down hard. I never have used hcg, but alot of vets have told me that 10 days at 500ius ed the last couple weeks of a cycle and then nolva and clomid pct worked great for them. My dosage is modest and I just wasnt sure if I really needed the hcg. I just want to keep as much as I can and recover quickly. I recovered very quickly with just clomid in the past.





thanx

[spidey]

If it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. If Clomid has worked well for you in the past, I would stick with it.

If you do try HCG, I would use 500 IU's ed for the last week or two of your cycle; wait the appropriate time (depending on what ester you are using) and do your Clomid therapy as normal.

[hitman75606]

Shite, This topic has seen a bit of interest. Thanks for your responses and they all seem well thought out. From what most of you have said , I should forget the HCG post course and use during instead. I figure i will lose alot of my fains now from the sust as I have nothing to use once I have stop sus.

No nolva and no clomid on hand so unless someone has a different opinion I guess it will be test with HCG and no PCT.

Not ideal and mentally I think I will fell flat once i stop injecting the test. We will have to see i guess.

[spidey]

Get some Nolva or Clomid man. It is cheap. Don't do a cycle with no PCT; that is just silly. Also, HCG with no nolva can cause gyno problems.

[slowpain]

I am getting ready to do my hcg also, can I use anastrozole instead of nolva to keep estrogen levels lowered, then use nolva clomid at end of cycle for PCT?

[DiamondCutCows]

Re: hitman75606

Originally posted by LouMessina
Anyone want to know what hitman75606 looks like? This is a photo of his big brother.

His big brother should be getting out in 1 - 10!


:rofl:

:confused:

[Bartdebuilder]

Originally posted by hitman75606
Shite, This topic has seen a bit of interest. Thanks for your responses and they all seem well thought out. From what most of you have said , I should forget the HCG post course and use during instead. I figure i will lose alot of my fains now from the sust as I have nothing to use once I have stop sus.

No nolva and no clomid on hand so unless someone has a different opinion I guess it will be test with HCG and no PCT.

Not ideal and mentally I think I will fell flat once i stop injecting the test. We will have to see i guess.

Next time take care of your gear before starting a cycle.
I deffenitly wouldn´t start a cycle when i was missing some of my PCT gear. PCT is just as important as the cycle, deffenitly if youre trying to keep as much gains if possible´.

[spidey]

Originally posted by slowpain
I am getting ready to do my hcg also, can I use anastrozole instead of nolva to keep estrogen levels lowered, then use nolva clomid at end of cycle for PCT?

Actually, I don't think so. Somebody else with more biology knowledge might correct me on this but I think HCG increases estrogen levels through some other mechanism. You need an estrogen blocker (nolva), not an aromatase inhibitor (Ldex).

[dbol]

you wont need more than 10,000iu for even a heavy cycle so I would definitely use one now.
start 3 weeks after sust.
shot one 2500iu, then in 5 days
shot two 1250iu, then in 5 days
shot three 1250iu.......now your finished with one ampule and your balls should be huge. Mine even get bigger than their baseline which is odd but Im not complaining.
make sure you have pleny of nolvadex on hand
I dont mess with clomid... I dont believe it is necessary and i can do without horrible acne and depression.

[hitman75606]

Thanks dbol

[hitman75606]

Great response Skyfire. can i pm you with the info on what I plan to do now???