clomid v.s. hcg

[mountainman]

ok heres the deal
im lookin to get some hcg for my next cycle
1-8 prop 100mg eod
1-14 testex cyp mon/thurs 250 mg per
have clomid & nolv already



my supplier says use clomid it should do the same thing . i told him i only want it to prevent my boys from shrinking too much during cycle .
he then proceds to give me a good argument on how in essence they do preaty much the same thing .
so now i`m wondering can clomid be used in exchange for hcg during cycle to keep from shriveling up the boys.

[Stonecold54]

Re: clomid v.s. hcg

Originally posted by mountainman
ok heres the deal
im lookin to get some hcg for my next cycle
1-8 prop 100mg eod
1-14 testex cyp mon/thurs 250 mg per
have clomid & nolv already



my supplier says use clomid it should do the same thing . i told him i only want it to prevent my boys from shrinking too much during cycle .
he then proceds to give me a good argument on how in essence they do preaty much the same thing .
so now i`m wondering can clomid be used in exchange for hcg during cycle to keep from shriveling up the boys.

I would say no. but in the cycle you just laid out you really shouldn't need to worry about shrinkage at all. The only thing that brings my guys down noticeable is deca and tren. I wouldn't waste the money at this point. wait till you hit some harder cycles.

[INTIMID8OR]

I concur with SC.....


ALSO

I personally don't like taking clomid through out my cycle,Some do.....

Clomid During A Cycle
When we use anabolic steroids, the level of androgens in the body rises causing the androgen receptors to become more highly activated, and through the HPTA, a signal tells our testes to stop producing testosterone. During a cycle the body has far higher than normal levels of androgens and, as long as this level is high enough, Clomid will not help to keep natural testosterone production up. It will be almost all but completely shut off, in theory.

Some heavy androgen users, however, do advocate a small burst of Clomid mid-cycle, though it must be hard for them to say if it really of any benefit, due to the amount of gear they are using. Therefore, the only purpose of Clomid during a cycle is as an anti-estrogen.


I prefer bigger cycles than the one you posted above to use HCG in this manner BELOW....

Somewhere between 500iu and 1000iu per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes.



I hope this helps ,If not post more questions or PM me ....
I could post a plethora of info ON this but I'm afraid it will just confuse you ..The above should be enough for you to make a decision on what avenue to take .........

[Skyefire]

Origional link used: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/show...swales+protocol

Since this is the current hot topic, I figured I would post this:



Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

[mountainman]

excellent post skyfire mabey i`ll see if i can find some arimidex
what would the standard for takeing that
and i`m gonna keep looking for the hcg even for future use

[joe bigboy]

good info there

[drgoodbody]

Looks like swale spread that post of his far and wide. Good stuff - I've seen it on a number of boards. Works well.

DrG

[Racer814]

Originally posted by INTIMID8OR
I concur with SC.....


ALSO

I personally don't like taking clomid through out my cycle,Some do.....

Clomid During A Cycle
When we use anabolic steroids, the level of androgens in the body rises causing the androgen receptors to become more highly activated, and through the HPTA, a signal tells our testes to stop producing testosterone. During a cycle the body has far higher than normal levels of androgens and, as long as this level is high enough, Clomid will not help to keep natural testosterone production up. It will be almost all but completely shut off, in theory.

Some heavy androgen users, however, do advocate a small burst of Clomid mid-cycle, though it must be hard for them to say if it really of any benefit, due to the amount of gear they are using. Therefore, the only purpose of Clomid during a cycle is as an anti-estrogen.


I prefer bigger cycles than the one you posted above to use HCG in this manner BELOW....

Somewhere between 500iu and 1000iu per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes.



I hope this helps ,If not post more questions or PM me ....
I could post a plethora of info ON this but I'm afraid it will just confuse you ..The above should be enough for you to make a decision on what avenue to take .........

:agree: good info...never thought taking clomid during a cycle would do shit....been in many an argument with the "take 1 every two days on cycle" crowd....lol