Would like some advice!

[house1]

Even though you got what you wanted to hear from some one, you still shouldn't be considering it. Your just coming into your natural ablity to increase nicely. You should really post your diet in the nutrition section to see where that can be fixed. You shouldn't compare yourself to your friend. It's not a competition between you and him, it's a competition with your self. I can tell just by your leg workout your overtrainig. Which indicates your doing good, but not to the extent you think you are.

agreed


also anyone that tells a 16 year old that steroids are fine to use is just as much a fool as the 16 year old-

what happen to actually training hard and earning it --

my 2 cents

[sana]

that's so irresponsible of your father to condone your usage at 16. it is absolutely some of the worst parenting i've ever seen.

you talk about training and yet you don't mention anything about your father working with you on nutrition.

you want to gain some good mass? eat some good food. forget the juice, the ph's, the whatever the hell else.

get your father on here so i can personally pass on a "shut the fuck up and don't let your son use steroids" lecture.

thank you, good day.

[sana]

Re: Would like some advice!

Originally posted by thabandplayson
.My diet is very good and i eat all all the time and highquality protein 3 times a day.

THIS IS YOUR PROBLEM. this is why you don't grow. you're only eating 3 times a day. i doubt you're getting more than 2000 cals a day. how do you grow on that?

[spidey]

I honestly don't know where to start...

You absolutely should NOT be considering AS at 16 and your father is dangerously uninformed if he condones your using them at your age. There is a lot more at stake than just stunting your growth. You stand an excellent chance of royally fucking up your endocrine system and your emotional well being, not to mention greatly increase your risk of testicular and prostate cancer. Hell, you are barely past puberty. Your hormones are in an uproar as it is. You are producing twice the natural test your father is. With a good diet, you could blow him away as far as mass and strength gains.

You should be eating MINIMUM of 5 meals a day and optimally 7 or 8 meals a day with 2 grams protein per lb body weight and 24 calories per lb body weight so a 180 lb guy should be eating some 4300 cals ed with 360 grams protein. Keep the carbs moderate or even equal to protein and the fats low; something like a 45% protein, 45% carbs, 10% fats diet to gain mass. Eat every 2 to 3 hours whether you are hungry or not. Follow Shortz's workout suggestions and then come back here in a month and tell us you haven't put on significant mass and strength.

M1T is not only a real steroid, it is the most potent and toxic oral steroid currently available. It is NOT the same thing as 1-test or 1-AD. I know of people who have nearly gone into liver failure on only 12.5 mg ed for 2 weeks. Granted, they were unusually susceptable but the fact is M1T is horrendously liver toxic. Liver damage is insidious in there are usually no symptoms until it is too late. You can feel fine and be literally at death's door. How long did you take it and at what dosage? Did you take anything to protect your liver? How long has it been since you stopped? If it has only been a week or two, I would strongly suggest you go get some blood work done to see if your liver enzymes are elevated. Hammer the vitamin C and get some R-ALA (600mg ed).

Also, remember when you read the replies on this board or any other: 95% of the people don't know any more about AS than you do and their advice is worse than worthless; it is dangerous. Those first few replies are an excellent example. Anyone who tells you to "go ahead" and use AS at your age is a complete idiot and probably hasn't been here all that long themselves since morons like that usually get banned before long for giving dangerous advice.

[spidey]

Originally posted by toobig
I would skip the M-1-T if you can get var, var is FAR superior, but costs WAY more.

The main reason to avoid M1T is liver toxicity. M1T is HIGHLY liver toxic, more so than halotestin. Thats why its recomended to only take for 2 weeks at a time, and only 20mg a day.

Var, has been shown in some cases to actually help the liver, even though it is a 17aa. Var, was originally designed to be giving to Children and women, and the sides are very minimal, in most cases the only sides youll notice are the good ones, strenght and a lil size. I forget the reason, but Var works synergistically with Creatine, so taking the two together would be great.


Oxavar, i would skip, in most cases if its legal its crap as far as prohormones go. The only exception is M1T, but thats not a prohormone, its an active steroid. BUt if you already have it, try it out and see how you like it.

Show me a reference where Var (or any other 17-aa) has been shown to help the liver. That is complete bullshit. All 17-AAS are liver toxic to some degree.

You should not be giving AS advice to anyone if you think a 16 yr old kid should go ahead and try M1T.

[thabandplayson]

Thanks to all of you,helps to know there other things that they can screw up other than your grown because im already done getting taller ( doctor said i would never get over 6' anyways) it gives me a reason to not want to do them wanted to let you know that its not like my dads pressureing me to do them. I said he wont mind it in like 2 years from now. Hes a really good father and the m1t and everything was because other body builders at the gym said it wouldnt hurt me.

anyways how f***ed am i

did you all know that the original m1t bottles said take for 4-6 weeks

so i took for 6 weeks 20mg a day

i stopped taking it about 4 and a half months ago

please dont tell me how big of a f***in idiot i am because i figured that out about 2 months ago when we ordered another bottle and it said dont take longer than 2 weeks. I figured it was to keep test levels from getting to low because mine just got back to where they should be about a month a half ago. Please dont come after me on this i already know that me or Gaspari Nutrition or someone screwed up big

[spidey]

I don't think you are the idiot; how were you supposed to know. I think the supposedly responsible adults who told you to take it are idiots. The good news is that Gaspari nutrition's stuff is under dosed (I think). Yes, 6 weeks is way too long and even experienced juicers can often get good gains on 10mg ed; 20 mg is a high dose. I have to assume you were not taking any liver protectants either. Frankly I am amazed you didn't really hurt yourself.

Did you take anything post cycle to help normalize your natural test levels? M1T, like most AS, inhibits the production of natural test by something called negative inhibition feedback to the Hypothalmic testicular axis (HPTA). In simple terms, your brain sees high levels of androgen in your system and thinks "I don't need to make any more". It can take a long time, without help, for your system to re-balance itself and start making testosterone again.

You should go get some bloodwork done. Have your testosterone levels measured as well as your liver enzyme levels. You can tell your doctor you took M1T and explain to him it is a legal androgenic supplement than can suppress test production. Tell him you haven't been feeling yourself lately (fatigue, low sex drive, depression) and you would like to have your test levels measured. Tell him you found out after the fact that M1T is liver toxic and ask to have your liver enzymes measured (AST, ALT, GGT). It should all be covered on your insurance so it will probably just be a co-pay.

If your test levels are still low, there are things you can take to help recover them. If your liver enzymes are elevated, there are liver protectants you can take to help lower them but we need to know the situation first.

[thabandplayson]

i took a anti estergen at the end of the cycle. not a real one like armidex or anything but the legal kind u can order. I never had any discoloration of my skin or fingernails. Only side effect was really bad acne up till about 2 months after i stopped. Was my liver the reason i wasnt hungry as soon as i got off or was it the anti estergen.

[spidey]

What anti-e? They don't all do the same thing. As for symptoms of liver stress, did the whites of your eyes ever get yellow looking, swelling of ankles or extremities, yellow tinge to skin?

Those are symptoms of EXTREME liver stress where you may be in danger of liver failure. As I said, symptoms usually only appear after real damage has been done and it is too late. Get the blood work. That is the only way to find out if your liver function is normal.

The acne was probably a side effect of the M1T itself. Decrease in appetite is also a common side of M1T as is lethargy.

[Bouncer]

I just find it funny that you never took the time to learn how to eat or train correctly but your taking all this MI-T and all this other garbage in order to get bigger.

Its kinda like having a car. You spend all this time adding things to the engine to make it go faster but you never botherd to add gas.

Without gas (food) you arent going to get anywhere no matter what kind of chemical you use.

[toobig]

Originally posted by spidey
Show me a reference where Var (or any other 17-aa) has been shown to help the liver. That is complete bullshit. All 17-AAS are liver toxic to some degree.

You should not be giving AS advice to anyone if you think a 16 yr old kid should go ahead and try M1T.

Heres the reference i read, i didnt get across what i was trying to say, i dont know why i said help the liver, what i should have said, is that anavar has been shown to not be harmful to the liver.

link to pubmed abstract

If you read my post, youll see that i said i thought he should wait a few years. If you read my other post youll also see that i told him how toxic M1T is, and if thats not a detterent, well, whatever.

The fact is, that if this kid is not just having some fun with us, that His father is condoning his future use of aas, and nothing your or I is going to say or do will really put a stop to that. The best thing we can do is tell him to wait (which i said) and give him some advice so he doesnt hurt himself. Your policy seems to be not to give him ANY advice whatsoever on something he is determined to do...If this kid were going to war tmw would you try and arm him with a rose, or a rifle?

[lxorl]

im sick of reading , but all the information looks good... the advice on the stacks look right, but more so is the advice on not starting now. You will not make gains later if you hit the juice now.. NOw is you r peak time for natural gains.

Go back to the creatine and protine.. and try and increase your clean eating by two more good meals.

[INTIMID8OR]

In my opinion your way to young to be taking AAS and if your father approves he sucks as a parent ...Its one thing to be a best friend to your child but to be condoning something that can potentially harm him or put him behind bars is totally irresponsible anmfd incomprehensible ...If this was my board you'd be banned for being to young and dangerous to have around ...

[spidey]

Originally posted by toobig
Heres the reference i read, i didnt get across what i was trying to say, i dont know why i said help the liver, what i should have said, is that anavar has been shown to not be harmful to the liver.

link to pubmed abstract

First of all, the abstract does not show dosages. While it is true that oxandrolone is used for a variety of medical reasons including aids and to speed up healing of burn patients, the dosage is around 0.1 mg/kg. For a 50 lb kid, that is just 2.3 mg per day! Yeah, I would expect that to not have very many consequences to the liver. Body builders, however, use 20 to 40 times that much. There isn't a whole lot of medical literature out there on those types of dosages but one I did read (can't find it at the moment but if you want I will look it up and get it to you later) has high doses of oxandrolone as toxic as similar doses of anadrol. ALL 17-AAS are liver toxic to some degree; some worse than others.

Originally posted by toobig
If you read my post, youll see that i said i thought he should wait a few years. If you read my other post youll also see that i told him how toxic M1T is, and if thats not a detterent, well, whatever.

I did read your post and right after you tell him M1T is toxic, you say "You already have it so try it out and see if you like it". You don't seem very concerned about it's toxicity so why should he be?

In your first post, you say he should wait a couple years (more like 4 or 5) and then proceed to tell him to take 500 mg test and 300 mg deca a week for 10 weeks. So which is it? Wait until he's older or jump in with both feet now?

Originally posted by toobig
The fact is, that if this kid is not just having some fun with us, that His father is condoning his future use of aas, and nothing your or I is going to say or do will really put a stop to that. The best thing we can do is tell him to wait (which i said) and give him some advice so he doesnt hurt himself. Your policy seems to be not to give him ANY advice whatsoever on something he is determined to do...If this kid were going to war tmw would you try and arm him with a rose, or a rifle?

You could tell he was detrmined to use AAS from his first post? Wow, you must be a very discerning person. The first thing anyone should tell a 16 yr old kid is that he shouldn't be using them right now as there are significant long term health risks involved; not give them a first cycle (a fairly heavy one at that) and gloss over the risks. The fact that his father is uninformed does not mean we have to go along with it; we know better.

And what is this war analogy anyway? It doesn't make sense.

[peal]

Too young to be doing AAS, not to mention is unfair. Also, training like a body builder for any sort of sport is a waste of time. You should be doing a west side barbell style of training, focussing on strength and speeed where size is a by product. Whereas bodybuilding trains for size, and strength is a by product. Speed usually is negatively effected by body building style workouts.