GH, Sub-Q or IM?

[Stonecold54]

Originally posted by drgoodbody
sub-q in the stomach - I think people over analyze this shit....

DrG

I wasn't gonna say anything, LOL. I also have a question, how thick is the actual skin cuz when I pinch skin on the top of my leg and shoot I believe I am actually in muscle cuz I have no fat there. It just seems that since I really have no bodyfat that there isn't much distance between IM and Sub-q. or is my reasoning flawed?

[New_Mass]

This read by Mr. Philips should be helpful


Growth Hormone ...
How, Why, What, When & Where

I tend to get a lot of emails about Growth Hormone (GH), when compared to other drugs such as steroids for example. I guess it's probably because not as many people have experimented with this hormone when compared to Testosterone or various other steroids. The main reason for the lack of knowledge or experience with GH is because:

It's "newer" than steroids. It hasn't been around as long, so less real world feedback.


It's super expensive, which limits general use, and again, limits feedback and experience.


A lot more counterfeit and "fake" GH because it is so darn expensive and hence, the profit margin is huge. There is a lot more profit made selling a fake EXPENSIVE drug then a fake "cheap" drug like Testosterone Cypionate for example.


GH is a very sensitive hormone. Once it's been "reconstituted" (mixed with water), it needs to be refrigerated and used up within a week. Because of this heat and shelf-life sensitivity, even if you were to have REAL GH, who knows what happened to it by the time it left the pharmacy to when it got into your hands. Maybe your "dealer" stopped by McDonald's for a couple Big Macs on the way to your place one hot, summer afternoon and those $600+ GH kits just sat in the hot sun for 30 minutes while he ate. If that doesn't render the GH useless, it sure will reduce potency.


And lastly, there are so many contradictory statements made about GH from a variety of so-called "experts" that are only rewriting someone else's original statements that it really can confuse most readers.
So in order to clarify, I'm going to clear some misconceptions about GH, and discuss the best ways to utilize this hormone for safety and cost, and some other cool tricks. The following topics will be covered:

What's the best way to use GH, either by itself or in a cycle with other drugs?
How to take GH ... once a day, twice daily, sub-q, in the muscle, etc.?
What's the best brand or kind of GH ... aren't they all the same?
What do I do about GH's side-effects?
Anyway, before getting started, if you want to know what GH is, what it does and some of the scientific "geek" talk about this hormone and gain more general knowledge, please read or reread Chemical Muscle Enhancement as it covers the basics, cycles, and etc.

Also, this article is NOT for the "newbie". I'm assuming you have read Chemical Muscle Enhancement because if you haven't, go do so NOW! That covers the basics and then some.

I'm going to lay down the "street talk" about this powerful hormone .. you know, one-on-one with a friend. So don't email me asking questions that are already answered in Chemical Muscle Enhancement because I'm not going to answer them. Sorry ... but with a few hundred emails a day, I gotta draw the line some where.

What's the best way to use GH, either by itself or in a cycle with other drugs?



If you use GH by itself, you will mainly notice a fat burning effect. Yes, you will notice mild "anabolic" effects as well, but GH is best used in conjunction with steroids, insulin and/or thyroid. There is an obvious synergy with this hormone, even more so then others ... and due to the higher cost, you might as well use it correctly in a proper stack.

Using It With Steroids:
If you are going to use it with a steroid stack, let's say, Testosterone and Winstrol, or some other steroids, you can use less and still get a great effect. I would say the minimum is about 3 ius taken daily, to as much as your wallet can afford.

Using It With Insulin/T3 Thyroid:
Most have heard about the synergy combination of using GH along with insulin and T3 thyroid. The reason is when these hormones are used correctly together, they'll produce the most amount of IGF in your body, the main hormone responsible for growth due to or through GH.

When using it with insulin/T3, you should probably take a higher amount ... let's say 6 ius or more daily of GH. As with the insulin, start with 4 ius twice daily of Humalog and work your way up to NO MORE then 10 ius, 2x daily.

Again, just for added clarification, IGF mainly causes ANABOLIC muscle growth and the GH is better at burning fat. Those that inject IGF (specifically Long R-3 IGF-1) see more muscle growth. While those that inject GH see more of its fat burning effects.

Now, thyroid is VITAL for GH, I would say more important then the insulin. The more GH you take and the longer you are on it, the more your own natural thyroid will shut down and lower production. And you WILL HAVE TO increase T3 levels back up to normal range to allow GH to work properly.

So it's "ideal" to have blood work done BEFORE you start your cycles and gauge it that way. But I know most don't do this. So, a very crude method is to just check your body temperature weekly. Always around the same time, morning is good. Again, do this BEFORE you begin your cycle so that you have a nice base-line to work with.

For example, if you are normally 98.6 F degrees ... and after a couple of weeks on GH you notice you are a bit colder, your skin is kinda dry and your body temp is now down to 97.6 for a few days in a row, it's time to add in the T3.

Start with 12.5 mcg daily and after 3-5 days, see how you are doing and feeling and check temp again. If not, raise it to 25 mcg for another 3-5 days until you get to YOUR normal range or right around it. You really shouldn't ever need to go above 50 mcg a day unless you are taking 12-18 ius of GH DAILY for weeks on end.

Again, some people's thyroid shuts down faster while on GH, and some take a long time. So, listen to your body and pay attention to detail. There are no set rules here.

Also, every-other-week, you should add in some Guggulsterones and/or Forskolin to get the thyroid gland working again. They help, but are NOT a substitute for adding T3 to your cycle.

How to take GH ... once a day, twice daily, sub-q, in the muscle, etc.?



GH is best taken through out the day. If you are taking 3 ius daily, take 1.5 in the morning and the other 1.5 ius later on in the day. If you are taking 6 ius daily, take 2 ius, 3x daily.

GH is best taken on an empty stomach, 2 hours after a meal or 1 hour before a meal. Some of the *better* times of the day to take it is in the middle of night like 4 or 5 am. Maybe when you get up to piss, take a shot and go back to sleep. Another time is early afternoon like 2-3 pm. It's not going to make a massive difference, but it helps in the long run.

If you want some fat spot-reduction, like in the "love-handles" or abs for example, it's best to take the GH under the skin, "sub-q". Just shoot up in different areas and rotate the shots. For example, upper abs, middle abs, lower abs, love-handles and then repeat. Again, do it under the skin, sub-q ... NOT actually IN the abdominal muscle.

If you want some site-specific muscle growth ... let's say you want bigger shoulders, then shoot up in the muscle. If you're not fat, all you need is a half-inch needle, 27-29 gauge will do. Rotate between front, side and rear delts for example.

In fact, shooting GH in a "weak" muscle while dieting will GREATLY REDUCE catabolism in that specific muscle. This you'll notice for sure. I have a friend who loses bicep size real fast whenever he diets. It's his "weak" body part. I told him to shoot in his biceps, 2 ius, 2x daily while dieting ... He pretty much kept all his size and rather then losing an inch like he normally does, he only list about 1/4 of an inch. I think that's a HUGE difference, don't you?

What's the best brand or kind of GH ... aren't they all the same?



Well, I use to think that all GH was the same. As long as its had a chain of 191 aminos, what do I care who makes it. BUT, I've discovered that it DOES make a difference. For example, many people use Serostim brand because it is, or use to be, readily available due to all the AIDS patients selling their kits to bodybuilders. But Serono, the makers of Serostim, caught on and regulated their drug better and slowly the Serostim source dried out for the bodybuilders.

So, many people started using Jinotropin and generic Chinese GH. Guess what, most noticed much better results all of a sudden. Now, I'm not sure why, and truthfully, nobody is sure. But one can speculate that by the time the Serostim kit leaves Serono labs ... hits the pharmacy ... an AIDS patient gets it ... sells it to dealer A who then sells it to another dealer ... and by the time it gets to your hands, the stuff has gotten a bit old.

Remember, GH is a protein and it can degrade VERY easily with light and heat. It should be refrigerated at all times, ESPECIALLY when it's been reconstituted. Maybe your local drug dealer at your gym stopped by McDonald's to eat before he met up with you. As he is sitting at McDonalds' enjoying his burger, your GH kits are sitting in his car....dying.

I know that sounds lame, but it happens, and a lot worse things have happened that can really degrade the GH. But many people are getting Chinese GH directly from the lab as "research" usage and hence, it's nice and fresh.

Oh, also ... Serostim GH tends to be counterfeited a LOT more then others. So that's another reason why it's not as effective, or the user reports minimal effects. Plus, a lot of bastards out there re-label vials and sell you 6 iu vials as 18 iu vials. Again, another potential reason for the lack of effects with Serono brand GH.

Anyway, I don't know the real reason, but feedback is that Jinotropin and Chinese GH work best and they are cheaper too. Just something to think about ...


What do I do about GH's side-effects?



Like all drugs, GH has its share of negative side-effects, but just not as much as other drugs. One common side-effect is joint pain and stiffness. A simple way around it is reconstitute the GH with Bacteriostatic Water versus the regular saline water the GH kits come with.

I'm not going to get into all the technical scientific reasons, but just know that joint stiffness is GREATLY reduced and the GH lasts longer and stays more potent.

Another problem associated with GH is higher prolactin levels. Not many people know of this side-effect, but it's true. Some are more sensitive than others...but it happens to everyone if you take a high enough dose.

To counter this, simply take some Bromocriptine (Parlodel®) at 2.5 to a maximum of 5 mgs daily.

Now, with Bromo, you have to start off REALLY SLOWLY or you'll get crazy headaches and you'll feel like you've got a horrible nasal cold. Start off at a 1/4 tablet (0.625 mgs), twice daily for the first 3 days. Then up it to 1/4 tablet, 3x daily for the next 3 days. Then 1/4 tablet, 4x daily, spread out evenly for next 7 days.

That will cover 2 weeks and you should be okay since your body should be used to the Bromo by now. If you are taking 9 ius or more of GH daily, you may want to increase the Bromo dose to 1/2 tablet, 3x daily. And if you are like some pros and are taking 18+ ius daily, then take 1/2 tablet, 4x daily.

I know there are people who say take Bromo all at once or take it in the morning, blah, blah, blah. Sorry, it doesn't work like that my friend. If you don't believe me, then start off with 5 mgs first thing in the morning and you'll believe me (but I do NOT recommend it, unless you want a mind-numbing headache lasting 24 hours!).

Lastly, as stated earlier, with longer usage and higher dosages of GH, your thyroid will tend to reduce output. Please pay attention, either with blood work (preferred), and/or with body temperature, and add thyroid accordingly. Use T3 Cytomel brand between 12.5 mcg to a maximum of 75 mgs daily.

Well, there you have it ... Simple and to the point. Hopefully I've cleared up some misconceptions about GH and gave you a couple new ideas to think about. On a final note, some people don't respond to GH or IGF (specifically Long R-3 IGF-1) and some respond really well. And there are some that respond to one, and not the other for some reason. Nobody knows why ... it's just a genetic thing and you'll need to find out through trial and error assuming you have bought REAL drugs and are using them correctly.

Again, if you are new to all this or don't know some of the drugs I've mentioned or whatever else, I urge you to PLEASE read Chemical Muscle Enhancement so you can have a basic foundation and knowledge. You'll make more gains, stay healthier and save money in the long run as well, by being able to use the correct protocols and cycles.

[bengal]

New Mass...
GREAT POST!

But still I am left in the grey area. If I want overall size improvement...should I go with the IM...I am not looking for site specific...just overall size.

I have heard sub-q gives a bigger IGF spike...but IM has a lower spike that lasts longer...

Help.

[BBOSSMAN]

I am just going to do sub q in the stomach area I know that is the most common so I cant go wrong.

[ROCKETW19]

Originally posted by bengal
New Mass...
GREAT POST!

But still I am left in the grey area. If I want overall size improvement...should I go with the IM...I am not looking for site specific...just overall size.

I have heard sub-q gives a bigger IGF spike...but IM has a lower spike that lasts longer...

Help.

for overall size regular AAS will be much better and affordable.

[New_Mass]

Originally posted by bengal


But still I am left in the grey area. If I want overall size improvement...should I go with the IM...I am not looking for site specific...just overall size.

Help.

For overall size bro i suggest you experiment with it and tell us what was the best way for you, remember everybody responds differently and GH has its place in contributing certain results, but to get this overall size i would go with the combination of GH and AAS to create the synergistic environment that is needed for the overall

[bengal]

I will be using AAS along side...test the whole time and switching up deca and EQ throughout....

[Cmsmallzz]

Originally posted by ROCKETW19
for overall size regular AAS will be much better and affordable.

:agree:

[New_Mass]

bengal , I figured by now someone else up here might have posted some negative effects of Gh up here for you, but since they haven't then I suggest you do more homework before running the GH because it may put a load on the pancreas(overworked pancreas can cause type 1 or 2 diabetes), this is why a lot of people stack it with slin to take some of the load off of the pancreas and not to mention the positive effect overall size one gets from this stack alone , again do your homework so everything can be done right and exact!

[bengal]

NewMass,

I appreciate the help & concern. I have been doing my research for the past year & a half...I have read Chemical Enhancement, read as many posts on GH on every website I could locate, and talked with many bros who have done it before...however, the pancreas area of concern, this is the first time I have heard about that. Which again reassures me that I have much to learn.
Is there anything besides slin that can help relieve the load off of the pancreas?? i am not confortable using slin.
Do you have any other links or books that could help me learn more about gh in general & about the stress on the pancreas?

THANKS

[New_Mass]

Im not saying that the Gh will affect your pancreas

Bro.. just have as much info..before you do what you do pertaining to anything.

Im sure your doses of Gh wont be high(over 6ius) and long term(over a year) for your 1st time so you should be ok running it.

as far as books and other info, to start with find out what the pancreas job is, so further down the road when the Gh gets good to you you'll know what you need to do.

keep us posted