CLOMID OR TRIBULUS

[GreekTank]

What's better for PCT Clomid or Tribulus? I also use HCG& NOLVA
Last cycle didin't use any clomid just tribulus to recover

[ROCKETW19]

thats a no brainer clomid over tribulus any day.

[bigpetefox]

You really like tribulus, huh? :)

[hitmansb]

Clomid...tribulis is something to be used after you're done PCT.

[GreekTank]

so your test levels can recover faster with the clomid? dosen't it mimick estrogen?

[Mr I]

GT,

It mimics estrogen but only invokes mild estrogenic characteristics, this very quality enables it to effectively block other molecules (i.e. those that have been mutated through aromatisation) for binding to estrogen receptors and stimulating estrogenice symptoms; tits, bloat, further inhibition of hypothalymus etc. At least thats the theory.

Personally I'm not convinced about all this receptor site school of thought.

Nolva is in my opinion a better anti estrogen but clomid definately works for me in stimulating the whole, pituitry, hypo, testes triangle. I usually take a couple of weeks of HCG first to get my balls there, then get the clomid in to make them stay.

But don't try and compare Trib with Clomid, Trib aint gonna do jack after a 8 week or more course of testosterone ester, you need clomid, hcg and nolva.

[Pumpdogg]

Nolva or clomid for sure do a search to see which one you would like to use. There are many post of this discussion

PD

[New_Mass]

Originally posted by Mr incredible
GT,

It mimics estrogen but only invokes mild estrogenic characteristics, this very quality enables it to effectively block other molecules (i.e. those that have been mutated through aromatisation) for binding to estrogen receptors and stimulating estrogenice symptoms; tits, bloat, further inhibition of hypothalymus etc. At least thats the theory.

Personally I'm not convinced about all this receptor site school of thought.

Nolva is in my opinion a better anti estrogen but clomid definately works for me in stimulating the whole, pituitry, hypo, testes triangle. I usually take a couple of weeks of HCG first to get my balls there, then get the clomid in to make them stay.

But don't try and compare Trib with Clomid, Trib aint gonna do jack after a 8 week or more course of testosterone ester, you need clomid, hcg and nolva.

this sums it up bro..

Hitman also has a good point to use the tribe after the pct..

[shiko24]

Originally posted by hitmansb
Clomid...tribulis is something to be used after you're done PCT.

I agree ! I use the normal stull like l-dex, then nolva and clomid and after I am done with all those I like to use trib and DHEA it keeps me from being depressed and hitting that low time I hate that !

I ramp up on the DHEA
25mg wk1
50mg wk2
75mg wk3
100mg wk4
75mg wk5
50mg wk6
25mg wk7

and use trib 1 pill a day untill it runs out

[beefcake]

Re: CLOMID OR TRIBULUS

Originally posted by GreekTank
Last cycle didin't use any clomid just tribulus to recover

That's not good dude. There's no literature that shows that tribulus has any benefit on endogenous test levels. Tribulus is a libido booster. Should not be used as your primary for pct.

[C Swoles]

clomid is much better for pct, because tribulus increases testosterone and estrogen level as well.

[beefcake]

Originally posted by C Swoles
clomid is much better for pct, because tribulus increases testosterone and estrogen level as well.

I think you mean hcg not trib. Nothing has shown that trib has any effect on endogenous hormone levels.

[C Swoles]

Supplement Tribulus Terrestris

Description Tribulus (puncture vine) is a vine that has been used as a general tonic (energy) and herbal treatment for impotence, but is found primarily in dietary supplements marketed for increasing testosterone levels in bodybuilders and power athletes.

Claims Increased testosterone production
Increased muscle mass/strength


Theory The idea behind tribulus is that it may increase testosterone levels indirectly by raising blood levels of another hormone, luteinizing hormone (LH). LH is a hormone produced by the pituitary gland and plays a role in regulating natural testosterone production and serum levels.

Scientific Support The active ingredient in tribulus is unknown, but is though to be a component known as furostanol saponins. There has been very little research conducted on the effectiveness of tribulus in elevating testosterone levels – the main claim made by body building products which contain the herb. In some cultures, the tribulus terrestris plant has been used as a "tonic" to in crease energy levels and treat sexual dysfunction (usually in males). In animals, tribulus may stimulate "mounting" behavior. Some European studies suggest that tribulus extract can increase testosterone levels 30-50% above baseline levels – but still well within the normal range. Unfortunately, however, these same studies also suggest a similar increase in estradiol levels – not exactly what the hardcore muscle builders should be interested in boosting

If tribulus extract does indeed elevate testosterone levels somewhat, but keeps them within normal ranges, it may be an effective supplement for individuals with reduced testosterone levels such as athletes at risk for overtraining syndrome and in those individuals on a prolonged low-calorie diet. It will not, however, cause you to start sprouting muscles from all parts of your body, as many body building mags would have you believe.

In one of the few well-controlled studies to examine the effects of tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance looked at 15 resistance-trained males. Subjects received either a placebo or a large dose of tribulus (1.5mg per pound of body weight per day for 2 months). Results showed no changes in body weight, percentage fat, total muscle mass or muscle strength related to tribulus supplementation.


Safety Although no significant side effects should be expected at doses of tribulus contained in commercial dietary supplements, animal studies have suggested the possibility of locomotor (muscle coordination) disturbances following ingestion of tribulus in high quantities. In sheep consuming tribulus plant for several months, neurological disease was characterized by an irreversible, asymmetrical, weakness of the hindlimbs.

Value Products containing tribulus are typically marketed to bodybuilders and athletes concerned with increasing muscle mass and strength. Although such products are typically combinations of ingredients which include tribulus, rather than tribulus alone, the scientific evidence for product effectiveness is typically lacking. At this time, Supplement Watch does not view tribulus extract (on its own) as a valuable dietary supplement for muscle building. As a support ingredient contained in a wider supplement blend, tribulus may provide some benefits to those individuals interested in maintaining testosterone levels in the normal range (overtrained athletes and dieters).

Dosage A typical dosage of 250-1500 mg of tribulus per day is fairly common. Be sure to choose an extract standardized for at least 30-45% steroidal saponins (furostanol).

References 1. Antonio J, Uelmen J, Rodriguez R, Earnest C. The effects of Tribulus terrestris on body composition and exercise performance in resistance-trained males. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2000 Jun;10(2):208-15.

2. Arcasoy HB, Erenmemisoglu A, Tekol Y, Kurucu S, Kartal M. Effect of Tribulus terrestris L. saponin mixture on some smooth muscle preparations: a preliminary study. Boll Chim Farm. 1998 Dec;137(11):473-5.

3. Bourke CA. Hepatopathy in sheep associated with Tribulus terrestris. Aust Vet J. 1983 Jun;60(6):189.

4. Bourke CA. Staggers in sheep associated with the ingestion of Tribulus terrestris. Aust Vet J. 1984 Nov;61(11):360-3.

5. Duhan A, Chauhan BM, Punia D. Nutritional value of some non-conventional plant foods of India. Plant Foods Hum Nutr. 1992 Jul;42(3):193-200.

6. Wu G, Jiang S, Jiang F, Zhu D, Wu H, Jiang S. Steroidal glycosides from Tribulus terrestris. Phytochemistry. 1996 Aug;42(6):1677-81.

7. Xu YX, Chen HS, Liang HQ, Gu ZB, Liu WY, Leung WN, Li TJ. Three new saponins from Tribulus terrestris. Planta Med. 2000 Aug;66(6):545-50.

8. Yan W, Ohtani K, Kasai R, Yamasaki K. Steroidal saponins from fruits of Tribulus terrestris. Phytochemistry. 1996 Jul;42(5):1417-22.

[GreekTank]

If it dosen't elevate test, why does your sexdrive and strength increase while using it! and also a more speedy feeling!

[beefcake]

Originally posted by GreekTank
If it dosen't elevate test, why does your sexdrive and strength increase while using it! and also a more speedy feeling!

There's a lot of things that are responsible for an increase in libido besides just testosterone. DHT and estrogen also increase libibdo and energy. My point is that there just isn't enough hard research to back up the claim that tribulus is any benefit. There are also theories that tribulus acts as a precursor to DHEA. Which is a precursor to test and estrodiol, which if true, would mean that tribulus is giving you an exogenous boost of hormones rather than an endogenous one, which would defeat the purpose of using it for pct. Best to just stick with what is proven.