GH & Test together

[romancaesar]

Hi -- I stopped my GH-only run after 2 cycles. Taking
a break to get some test. This was the first ever
GH run for me. Had a test run a year ago that was
cool though I noticed nothing. My test level is 500.
I believe midpoint for my age is about 600?

My plan is to startup the test at the same time as the
next GH cycle as I wasn't on the test when I was doing
morning 1iu GH that made me sleepy all day. Couldn't
believe how badly I slept on the stuff.

I am not a bodybuilder but would like to lose some
of this excess bodyfat (I don't look fat) and have absurdly
low levels. Stats: 73-90 ng/ml IGF-1, 47 years old, 180lbs,
6ft tall, 22% body fat -- obviously not a great specimen.)

So the question is how much GH and test do you
think I need? I was planning on doing 1iu/day 6 on
1 off, in the evening at about 6pm, with a week off
every 4-8 weeks and 100mg test cream on the arms
daily in the morning, for life.

I can move up either the GH or test if you think this
isn't enough. No need for bodybuilder levels but
some fraction thereof might help me. Conversely,
I can start at these and move up slowly and watch
for signs that I've gone past optimal which is my
next question. What are those signs for GH+test?

Thanks

ROMAN

[1BdMfkr]

here is some useful information about GH that i found, i just started 3iu's 5on/2off, see if this helps, with your age and what you are trying to accomplish take what applies to you... but personally I dont think 1iu a day will do much good but very minor fatloss. I guess you went to the doctor and he prescribed you the test cream? If so I wouldn't do any kind of AAS because the doctor obviously has you on the HRT for a reason. Anyway here is a little info. Much more where this came, hopefully this will help.

(found on another forum, I can not take credit for this information)

SORRY ABOUT LENGTH, but this is only a fraction of the info you need to know before messing with GH


Growth Hormone

Rating: (1 being the lowest, 5 being the highest)
Strength-4
Weight Gain-4
Fat Loss-4
Side Effects-2
Keep Gains--4

Side Effects:
Hypoglycemia- due to lowered insulin levels.
Aromeglia- (abnormal bone growth) GH does not cause it, but if you are predisposed to it, it will speed it up.
GH gut- if predisposed and taking large doses of GH
Carpel Tunnel Syndrome
Soreness in Joints

Benefits of GH:
New Muscle Cells
Mood Enhancement
Smoothing and improving the skin
Leanness, it is a potent fat burner
Joint and ligament strengthening

Where to Inject, How, and How to Make:
You can site inject anywhere you can reach the subcutaneous layer. Pinch the flesh and pull back, then insert the needle in the "pocket" underneath. Doesn't absorb quick enough if you inject into the adipose tissue. Do not inject intra-muscular, though it can be done, it is not recommended. GH is a site injection, where it is shot is where it will burn the most noticeable fat. Most people do it in the stomach since that is a typical sub q shot with most of the fat being in that area. GH should be kept in a fridge; freezing will destroy the GH. On your kit it probably says to use the kit in 18-24 hours, remember these are for AIDS patients, not bodybuilders or athletes. Mixing the GH can either be done with sterile water or bacteriostic water. The kit with water will be fine for 3 days in the fridge, even with the sterile water, but you should not take this chance, rather you should use bacteriostic water and play it safe. This will keep it fine for a couple of weeks. When mixing the GH, let the water slide down the side as to not pulverize the GH wafer. Do not spray it directly against the wafer with any force. Before reconstitution and even after GH is fragile!!! Also once the water is injected into the bottle gently swirl the vial to reconstitute, do not shake or swirl violently!!!!

Conversions:
1 ml = 1 cc -/+
100 units per 1 cc

6 mg = 18iu

1 ml = 18iu

.50 ml = 9iu

.25 ml = 4.5iu

Some people choose to only do it in cc’s but here is how you can do it in units on a slin dart

5.5 = 1iu, so 2iu = 11 on a slin dart

Differences Between Kits:
The main difference between kits is how many iu’s they make when reconstituted. For example, Serostim re-constitutes to make 126iu, while a Saizen kit.... also made by Serono.... makes up 15iu. Another of their kits makes 54iu. It better be way cheaper than a Serostim kit! Humatrope is fine, but costs too much. The other main concern would be fakes; Lilly is the most often faked one. Some older GH kits do not have holograms on them and are legit, but they are usually only less than 100 dollars than new GH kits with holograms, and I would rather be assured of the hologram and legitimacy of the kit. Best buy currently is Serostim 126 iu kits. These are made for people with wasting diseases like AIDs. Many of these patients got infected because they are IV drug addicts..........they sell the Serostim on the street for drug money.


Dose:

4 to 6 iu ed is sufficient. Most people take it 5 days on 2 days off at their designated dosage. There is no reason or evidence why you cannot stay on for various lengths of time; there is no need to go 5 on 2 off other than cost. Considering that our natural production is only .5 to 1.5iu a day, this is still a huge bump for the body. Research has shown that the body's natural defense systems render mega doses of GH ineffective, anyway. GH does not cause gains in mass...it allows you to put on a great deal of lean mass in combination with proper steroid and insulin use. The user before taking must know this. One or two kits are not enough, you need at least 3 to make you happy, GH takes a while to make its effects, but remember they are long lasting, what you see is what you keep. It takes 6 to 8 weeks to notice a dramatic change in body comp using GH on an ED or 5/2 split. Lighter doses for long periods of time are better than large doses for short cycles. Like any other drug, the more you take the more the benefits, but likewise also more risks. 4-6 iu is a standard dose but many people take more, the most repulsing side effects happen at or beyond 12 iu a day but like anything else it depends on your predisposition for it.


How to Stack:
GH is best taken in conjunction with insulin, anabolic steroids, and t3. Insulin is extremely effective with GH, as anyone here who has tried it will testify. This is because GH injections cause a down regulation of insulin sensitivity in the body.
GH alone causes little growth of lean mass, however, when combined with insulin and steroids (and IGF-1 if you can find it), the results can be down right remarkable...esp. in the older bodybuilder. Start light with the humulin...5iu...and work up 1 iu a day till you get use to it. 7 to 10iu in the AM and 7 to 10 iu in the late afternoon, with split doses of GH is your best bet. When splitting GH/insulin doses, I use mid-morning and late afternoon after lifting.... both flat times in our natural GH production. The insulin overcomes the insulin-resistance caused by exogenous GH supplementation. If you are scared to take insulin thought, then Gh with Test and Glucophage is good. GH is good for cutting if used alone. Glucophage allows for improved glucose and amino acid absorption by the muscle tissue and does it safely. This is what you want. The half-life of GH is only 2 hours so spread it out. Avoid bedtime injections since we produce the bulk of our own GH in the first two hours of sleep. Since exogenous GH suppresses this, you should not take it before bed. For best results, use a 17aa oral during the cycle to stimulate the release of natural insulin growth factors. I would run the test throughout. GH/insulin/test is the proven synergistic combination.
It is also wise to preload with testosterone before starting GH if you are going to do it. You should preload with the amount of time it takes for that testosterone to kick in, since most of us take longer acting esters for testosterone you should usually start taking the test 2 weeks before GH use. Likewise, you can accommodate it to fit your needs; the key is for the test to be kicking in the same time you are starting to run your GH. You can cycle you steroids however you want to depending on your goals, if you are going for a more massive look than you would run insulin for most of the cycle and use high androgens, but if you are looking for additional leanness at the end of a cycle you should stop the androgens and run a higher dose of GH or run less androgens. T3 is also another substance that should be used during GH cycling since GH lowers thyroid hormones. T3 should be used for shorter periods though, because it can permanently alter the endocrine system. The magic of GH for men is the ability to gain mass without fat or bloating when stacked properly with insulin, and steroids. GH also makes for amazing improvements in skin...smoothes wrinkles, burns stubborn spots of adipose tissue, gives that paper-thin contest look...and also gives one a real mood lift, a feeling of well being.

Major Difference Between GH and Steroids:
Steroids can increase the size of your muscle cells, but cannot I repeat CAN NOT increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which to start with is governed by your genetics. However Growth hormone CAN increase the number of muscle cells in your body, which goes beyond genetics.

Half-Life of GH:
Exogenous (injected) GH has a "half-life" of approximately 2 hours . . . a 4-hour period of activity during which there is a suppression of naturally produced GH.

GH Naturally Produced:
We release the most of our naturally produced GH during the first two hours of deep sleep...you may take a little time to adjust.... your body thinks you should be in bed when that big influx hits. It is good to take a nap, that’s when you grow anyway. It always helps to take naps after workouts and injections everyday.

GH Causing Acromeglia:
Acromeglia is a disease...you either have it or you don't. Supplementing GH will not cause it. Persons suffering from acromeglia, like Andre the Giant, lack the natural defense mechanisms of the body to regulate the production and effects of GH secretion in he pituitary. It is well established in the medical literature that exogenous GH will not cause the disease.... of course it would worsen the condition in those who had it.

GH Gut: Myth or Reality?:

Some researchers claim that any gains in weight experienced by subjects using GH alone was due to growth of internal organs and connective tissue, which could cause some problems. Most studies do not agree with this theory and consider "GH gut" to be a myth. Some people are allergic to synthetic test, this is something you have to find out for yourself. Some people also feel intestinal discomfort from time to time, if so take it down to one item at a time to see what is causing you discomfort; creatine, glutamine, protein products, orals, and dirty gear have all been known to cause this, so find the problem early.

GH and IGF-1:
Perhaps the most relevant effect of IGF-1 is the ability of IGF-1 to increase protein synthesis by increasing cellular mRNA formation (mRNA makes protein) as well as increasing uptake of amino acids. This effect on protein synthesis can lead to increased lean mass. The research indicates that this effect is dependent on GH presence as well. So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis.

GH and IGF-1 are negative regulators of GH release so an increase in either (from a GH injection) reduces the secretion of GH. IGF-1 is very difficult to obtain in a useable condition.... it must be handled very gently and have bee kept at a rather precise temperature at all times. One can stimulate IGF production through the use of an oral steroid during cycle. Dbol, for example, causes a rather extensive release of IGF during the first pass through the liver.

The leading studies in this area: (Ney, 1999, Yarasheski, 1994.... Am J. App. Phys.)
In the Yarasheski study, no increase in lean muscle mass was noticed in the subjects using GH alone, but significant gains were found in subjects that supplemented with IGF and GH...add in the steroids and look out! Yarasheski studied weight trained athletes, supplementing one group with GH alone, and one group with GH and IGF. "So IGF-1 alone does not promote such effects. (Leanness and increased lean mass) Nor does GH. It appears the combination of the two most consistently lead to increased protein synthesis." Both seem to negatively downregulate the other over time, so as to lead to diminishing returns. Cycling would be in order for that reason. Also supplementing both is necessary because one or the other alone will suppress the natural production of the non-supplemented Latest study by Yarashevski - with GH alone...8 to 12% change in lean body composition. 6% increase in muscle mass.

[romancaesar]

Useful stuff. Thanks bro.

ROMAN

[romancaesar]

Back on for this non-bb type. Started the next round
of the HGH last night, 1iu for 6 days on 1 day off
for 3 weeks. Also started 200mg daily Test.

These are well below bb-levels. I am not a bb
but want to build up something worthwhile
without endangering myself.

ROMAN