held off but considering the juice again

[Hardgainer04]

Hey guys been a while since I posted last but anyways I was thinking about tasting the juice about a year ago when I was 21 and decided to hold off on it and keep training naturally. Here I am a year later at practically the same weight and build. 22 yrs old, 165lbs, 5'11 guessing around 10-12% bf. i did have an injury that took me out for a good 4 months of training. So I'm considering the darker side again, I have done my homework before but I'm just getting back into this again and have some questions. this is what I'm thinking about running:

12 week cycle of test enth 500mgs per week
I'd like to add injectable winny but I'm unsure of what dose, duration and at which point of the cycle to add it.

One of my major concerns is gyno so I'm wondering what the safest way to go about this is. I know I can run Nolva throughout which may also hinder gains but is the the safest way to prevent gyno? Also have been looking into liquidex. If I decide to run Nolva throughout what should the dose and duration be? I've been reading posts and have heard about hcg but I don't know what it is and haven't been able to find info on it.

My goal is to add as much lean muscle as possible and keep the bloat down. I'd really like to add between 15-20lbs of muscle and keep it. Does this type of cycle with test and Winny usually provide these kinds of gains?

I'm still just considering all of this and am not dead set on it so if I were to run a cycle it would probably be sometime this coming winter and at this point I don't even have a source so I'll just keep training and keep all this in mind. thanks for any help

[YellowJacket]

$20 says your diet sucks.

[Bouncer]

I would also like to see your diet. Please post exactlly what your eating threw out the the day.

[Hardgainer04]

meal1: Nlarge shake w/ 2 scoops of whole grain oats and 2% milk, 2 pieces of toast
meal2:Bannana or apple w/ penut butter
meal3: albacore tuna, or chicken breast sandwitch, cajun soy nuts sometimes nut mix of almonds peanuts and pecans.
meal4: Nlarge shake with 2% milk and protein bar or sometimes just a snicker bar
meal5: plain chicken breast, somekind of potato and bread
meal6: peanut butter sandwitch sometimes with a glass of milk

I also allow myself 2 days a week to eat whatever pretty much but still take the Nlarge shakes. I don't gain weight well never have.

[Lmg2701]

Meals 2 and 6 you should add more protein......

Add your totals up: Cals/Pro/Carbs/Fat

I agree with the guys.....First step would be to try changing your diet and eating your ass off. I had a friend who went from 230 to 275 because he changed his diet and ate every 1.5 hours and he was taking absolutely no anabolics. How's your training as well?

I know it might sound like you're gettin preached to but before anyone here will give you the anabolic advice you're looking for (most of which you could find using the search function) we wanna make sure you've got the diet and training parts nailed down. Anabolics is a small part of it and not worth it if the other things are off.

[jterry16]

Either way from what I've researched test and winny cycles are the worst cycles for your joints. Collagen breakdown is increased dramatically.

[YellowJacket]

Just as I suspected.... never going to gain weight/muscle with this diet....

meal1: Nlarge shake w/ 2 scoops of whole grain oats and 2% milk, 2 pieces of toast [/b]

News Alert: N-Large II is not a meal, nor is it even a decent weight gainer. N-Large II consists primarily of maltodextrin, which my friend is merely sugar. Have a weight gainer/meal replacement shake, nothing wrong with that, but make it quality.... such as:
16oz. milk
2 scoops natural peanut butter
2 scoops whey powder
1/3 cup rolled oats
1 tablespoon flax or fish oil

Blend it, and enjoy. You can add vanilla extract or cinammon if youd like to taste.

Besides this point, a meal replacement shake is not a sufficent breakfast. Utilize natures best protein resource and have some eggs. If youre trying to add pounds, scramble them, hardboil them, make an omlette, etc. Eggs are an excellent source of protein. Along with this, have some complex carbohydrates such as whole grain waffles or oats....

meal2:Bannana or apple w/ penut butter

Certainly not a meal. Fruits are essentially useless to bodybuilders, beyond their vitamin and mineral content, they only fill liver glycogen, not muscle glycogen, so theyre basically useless calories. Have a can of tuna or some type of meat here, try canned salmon (personal favorite).

meal3: albacore tuna, or chicken breast sandwitch, cajun soy nuts sometimes nut mix of almonds peanuts and pecans.

Not bad.... Im noticing a trend of no vegetables. You must have vegetables. Steamed or even raw is fine. Green vegetables are great, I like simple stuff like baby spinach, with balsamic vinergar and feta cheese. Tasty, very cheap and good for anti-oxidants, and minerals. Im also not seeing much healthy fats, beyond the little in peanut butter and tuna. You may want to invest in an $8 bottle of flax or fish oil. Flax or fish oil gives you free calories and aids the body in a myriad of physiological processes.

meal4: Nlarge shake with 2% milk and protein bar or sometimes just a snicker bar

Again, not a meal. Search through the "what did you eat today?" thread in the nutrition section, this was a brilliant idea that demonstrates very simplistic meals that even a bodybuilder can make. If you're bulking you need whole foods and calories. N-Large II is a joke and a snickers bar? Come on now.... you want to jump into juice and youre still earing snickers bars? Youre still a few years away from needing juice.

meal5: plain chicken breast, somekind of potato and bread

Not bad... dont forget about your vegetables and always know that brown rice is a great addition/side to chicken.

meal6: peanut butter sandwitch sometimes with a glass of milk

Again, this isnt a meal. This would be a good time for some cottage cheese (if you like it) if not, no one says you cant have eggs for oyur last meal, before bed. Peanut butter is fine, Id prefer it be natural though.

[b]

I also allow myself 2 days a week to eat whatever pretty much but still take the Nlarge shakes. I don't gain weight well never have.

You dont gain weight because youre lacking calories. Weight gain is simple calories in vs. calories out. You must eat more calories than you expend. A snickers bar and some sugar shakes are not going to get you anywhere but a little pooch gut, nothing in the hypertrophy department. Id be interested in seeing youre pre-workout and post-workout meals and shakes. Also, Id be willing to bet your training could use an overhaul as well.

[BBAddict]

Great reply, YJ. Hardgainer, your protein and total calories is way off. I'm also a hardgainer and gotta tell you getting the macronutrients (protein, carbs AND fats) in the right amounts is crucial. If you don't, you're never going to gain weight--take it from someone whos been there. Like YJ said, the post in nutrition about what people have eaten shows some decent (some better than others) examples of good diets. The thing to remember is that the diet depends on a lot of factors like your individual BMR and your goals, so the best idea is to take some of the recommendations from YJ here, read a little more on the board and put together a new diet and post it for us to take a look at it. I think if you try that and stick to the diet (easier said than done!) you'll be surprised at the gains you can make naturally with the proper diet--and you'll save yourself a bunch of money on juice! I'm all natural still and think of juice as a last resort when I am positive I am doing everything absolutely right-diet, training, rest-and still not making any gains.

[NYCmitch25]

^^^^wow...YJ where should he send the check?

[YellowJacket]

^^^^wow...YJ where should he send the check?

Yea, and to think, some people on these boards have programs they make you pay for.....amazing.... you can get the same (or comparable) information for free....

[Hardgainer04]

Ok well there is deffinately alot of good info for me here. thanks for all the help Im going to re evaluate my eating schedule. I never thought much about Flax oil so I am going to add that in for sure. Thanks for the advice, i'll be around

[ROCKETW19]

bro one thing for sure! you gotta try that shake JY gave you he gave it to me about 8 months ago and i drink one every morning after my eggs. it taste great fills you up and has all the nutrition you need. good luck.