something new

[Smithcb9]

well, sorry guys, i didnt know that much stuff about it, that is why there is a message board to ask questions and reveral answers, thanks bouncer and shibby for the info....once i read through some shit, ill come back and ask you ppl some questions.
thanks

p.s - screw other message boards lol

[JUICE]

just read bro, theres alot u can learn here.

Dbol alone will get u big but u will lose it fast as soon as ur off the cycle. Thats gonna be depressing, ive been there before. Not a good idea.

But go through the diet section and training. The good bros can help u out getting a good diet, maybe fixing your current one. Same goes as for training, we can help u out a routine.

[WISSLER]

Well, since we all know that you are going to do it anyway, take 10mg every morning AS SOON AS YOU WAKE UP. This will mimick the bodies natural test surge and will not shut down your HTPA. You won't need any "PCT pills" if you only use 10mgs a day. IF YOU TAKE ANY MORE THAN 10MG A DAY YOU ARE SCREWED. You can take these this way for 6-8 weeks with minimal sides, or you can use your whole "cycle". Once you are done you will most likely lose at least half of the weight gained because it will be mostly water. Then, you can come back here and learn how to build a real cycle.

[spidey]

Wissler - 10 mg dbol ed probably won't do shit except make him retain a little water if anything and it certainly won't mimic a natural test surge. Also, it might be mildly suppressive; it depends on the person. This is a complete waste of dbol.

This guy sounds young too. It is irresponsible to suggest any AAS usage to someone without first knowing their age and stats.

Smithcb69 - Dbol only cycles pretty much suck for most people and there are possible side effects and risks you need to know about etc. Hang around; read and get some information before making any decisions. While you are at it, tell us how old you are, how tall you are, how much you weigh, what you eat in a day, and how you train. We would need all that information to be able to help you in an intelligent fashion.

[jterry16]

These guys have given some sound advice. Hope I wasn't too much of an a-hole, but it was funny how you were so dang persistent, yet continued to ignore all the appropriate advice. All of these guys are right, you should research your diet and training first. That's where most people new are lacking, but don't realize it and that's why they consider starting AAS. Not a good idea....you'll never grow no matter what if you don't have the holy trinity of mass building down...diet, training, rest. So research, research, research and post your diet, age, stats, training and let us help you.

[Smithcb9]

thanks for the information, im not ignoring ne of you guys i just got off of work........ill tell u my stats in a min.

[Smithcb9]

I am currently 20 years old and 5'11 inches tall. I weigh 165 and ive been owrking out for 2 yrs. My diet usmiually consist of:
morning..... milk with a heapin scoup of whey protein with oatmeal or peanut butter and banana sand. with wheat bread.....
lunch......... usually or everyday I eat at ryans steak house which is a buffet..... baked chicken, fish, brocoli, sweet potatoes, salbury steak, corn, green beans, and some fruit.
then after work i workout and have a glass of water with creatine.......post workout i have a protein shake with peanut butter, milk, banana and ice in a blender.
supper....................I usually eat chicken, pork chops, fish, or tuna.....with rice, mash tators, and some sort of veggie.....
couple hrs later before bed........i have ice cream so i can put some weight on...

that is all i usually eat b/c i work outside all day in the heat, which makes it hard.

other than that, make workout goes:
monday.......... chest and tris - incline, decline, flat, butterflies, peck deck, french cruels, 2 diff dum bell workouts for tris,

wed - back and bris - hmmm....... i do 3 diff kind of pull downs for back exercises with a machine, then a sit down one....lol and ones with dumbells........ bris i do basic cruels, burn outs, side cruels with dums, and a machine one..

fri - legs, shoulders, and traps........ squats, legs press, hammy machine, etc.... pull downs straight up in down with mach. and dums, pull ups, dips, and straight up and side dums....... for traps mach and dums

well some of the stuff i explained i hope u can understand my workout lol srorry.....well if u need ne more info tell me thanks guys for the help and advice

[coffee-guy]

I am currently 20 years old and 5'11 inches tall. I weigh 165 and ive been owrking out for 2 yrs. My diet usmiually consist of:
morning..... milk with a heapin scoup of whey protein with oatmeal or peanut butter and banana sand. with wheat bread.....
lunch......... usually or everyday I eat at ryans steak house which is a buffet..... baked chicken, fish, brocoli, sweet potatoes, salbury steak, corn, green beans, and some fruit.
then after work i workout and have a glass of water with creatine.......post workout i have a protein shake with peanut butter, milk, banana and ice in a blender.
supper....................I usually eat chicken, pork chops, fish, or tuna.....with rice, mash tators, and some sort of veggie.....
couple hrs later before bed........i have ice cream so i can put some weight on...

that is all i usually eat b/c i work outside all day in the heat, which makes it hard.

other than that, make workout goes:
monday.......... chest and tris - incline, decline, flat, butterflies, peck deck, french cruels, 2 diff dum bell workouts for tris,

wed - back and bris - hmmm....... i do 3 diff kind of pull downs for back exercises with a machine, then a sit down one....lol and ones with dumbells........ bris i do basic cruels, burn outs, side cruels with dums, and a machine one..

fri - legs, shoulders, and traps........ squats, legs press, hammy machine, etc.... pull downs straight up in down with mach. and dums, pull ups, dips, and straight up and side dums....... for traps mach and dums

well some of the stuff i explained i hope u can understand my workout lol srorry.....well if u need ne more info tell me thanks guys for the help and advice

You have too much to improve upon with your diet, workout, discipline and age. Give it time - I made the mistake of taking AAS at a young age and had NO IDEA what the hell I was doing. Luckily, nothing bad happened to me and now I have the chance to actually learn what I am going to be doing to my body. At 5'11" and 165pds you are too early in the stage to do ANYTHING.

I am 5'8" and 196pds and that's 12pds more than I ever weighed when I last took AAS almost 7 years ago. I also laid out of the gym for the last 3-4 years and hung around 170 up until about 6 months ago when I finally got my ass back where I belonged (in the gym). Also, I am only at 11% bf and have just started to tweak my diet and exercise routines to get maximal gains. Again, hang out on the site and learn as much as you can and wait at least 3-4 years before f'ing with AAS.

[coffee-guy]

Somebody more experienced please help me with Smithcb9. I am not comfortable giving out nutrional and workout information yet but HE NEEDS IT QUICK!

[Smithcb9]

helpme then

[coffee-guy]

helpme then

I don't have a problem giving advice on some things bro and even throwing my two cents in more often than not. However, there is a ton of information in this site that will get you headed in the right direction.

There are way too many experts on this site for you to go unnoticed but you will get better support if you do some more homework. I am not comfortable yet with giving too much information until I learn my own body and study more proven research.

Here are some links that really helped me though.

Some of the rules... http://www.superiormuscle.com/vbulle...ad.php?t=15450

A place to start building the foundation for your diet (this will tell you how much you need to be eating in order to get the gains you want)...
http://www.superiormuscle.com/vbulle...wjacket+BMR%2A

A place to start finding the nutrional values of the foods you plan on eating...
http://www.fitday.com/

Use this to help build and maintain a diet...
http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition.html

Great website for nutrional information (and other stuff I haven't really focused on yet)...
http://www.basskilleronline.com/links.html
http://www.basskilleronline.com/carb...te_timing.html

One last one just to keep the humor :)
http://pyro.buildtolearn.net/misc/posting.swf

[Smithcb9]

thanks alot man, I appreciate u takin time for ur own to help me out..

[jterry16]

My my my....where to begin....well first of all fog hat is 100% correct in advising against AAS....at 20 years old you run the risk of permanently damaging your growth and natural potential not to mention other things as well. I'd wait at least a few years. In that time you can really learn what it takes to diet, and train. Some basic diet tips (I'll leave the detailed stuff to the vets/mods) You want to take in at least 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of body weight. So that would put you at 240-320g PER DAY. With that being said, your total overall calories should be above 4000 PER DAY. This isn't something you can just skimp on...it has to be DAILY or you'll be cheating your gains.....regardless of what you're taking/not taking. In order to do this you're gonna have to eat 6-8 meals a day with 30-50g protein per meal ideally. As far as your workout....well I would at least know what exercises you're doing first ("a sit down one, and one with dumbells"). It makes me question your form and technique on your exercises if you're not clear as to what they do. I personally like to keep it simple and stick to the big compound movements and throw in a few isolated exercises if I feel like I didn't work that muscle group well enough. I'll leave those details to the vets/mods as well. Hope this got the ball rolling.

[MusclePilot]

Baselines for starting AAS use

Posted by a fellow bro at another forum. Pretty much sums it up....

I will start this out by saying that I am sickened by the posts I see on many boards by 16-18 year old kids that have been training for sometimes only MONTHS that are asking about how to best go about using pro-hormones or steroids. Let’s get something strait first. Unless you are at LEAST 21 you have no right even considering doing them. WHY? Well, if you need to ask that, you haven’t done your homework and you should be disqualified already.

Now that we are talking about 21+ year olds, lets make a few more distinctions.

1. How long have you been training?
1.1 How long have you been training CORRECTLY (for YOUR body) and dieting correctly.

Even if you have been training for 10 years and have been doing a bunch of stupid “pro” style training and eating like a little old lady, you haven’t really been training yet. I know, because I did the same thing for over 10 years and made about zero progress. I knew a bunch about bodybuilding, except how to train myself at a volume and frequency level I could recover from, and how to feed myself properly. But I could tell you EVERYTHING about all the “pro’s” and how they did it—USELESS!!!!

Now what about if you have been training for 2-5 years and have actually made great progress? What constitutes great progress? I’ll go out on a limb here and give you some generic lift numbers that translate pretty good in the real world for average (if there is such a thing) trainees.

A bench of at LEAST 250-300 lbs for at least a few reps
Dipping with at LEAST 75+ strapped to your waist for 6-8 reps
Rows and/or pull-downs with at LEAST 200 for 6-8 reps
Military or dumbbell shoulder press with at LEAST 150-175 for 6-8 reps
Squatting/deadlifting at LEAST 350 for 6-8 reps

And yes, some people may be dismally low at 1 or 2 of the lifts due to bad leverages, abnormally low fast twitch fiber composition, etc. but if you can’t hit at least 3 out of 5 of those numbers, or you are a very short/small statured trainee, you need to get your training and diet in order and pay some more dues. If these numbers seem light years away, or totally out of your reach you probably don’t have the big factors of training and diet even remotely dialed. Simple as that! MOST trainees can and will hit, or come very close to these numbers while training clean. But…..most are miles away…

So……..they decide to get involved with gear way before it’s time. Then before they are willing to even pay their dues about learning about proper gear/ph use, post cycle therapy, and all the ins and outs, they ask a few questions on the forums that are often responded to by another young inexperienced trainee and have their way with it.

AFTER I could squat and deadlift 400 for 10 reps and bench 300 for reps I decided I wanted to try gear. I then spent a year and a half studying EVERYTHING I could get my hands on before I tried a moderate short cycle of 8 weeks of test and deca. Granted I’m pretty dense and most people would be able to come up with a well thought-out plan in less than the year and a half it took me. But the point is unless you are willing to learn everything you can from reliable sources you just should be dabbling.

Now, back to the original question of the topic. Do you REALLY need to use bodybuilding drugs? This answer will greatly vary depending on what you want your physique to look like. The chances are slim for the average guy, with average genetics to build even a mid-level competitive physique without them, but MOST guys are not really looking to be that big anyway. Most guys want a lean strong looking physique that will turn heads wherever they go, and want to be able to take their shirt off and be proud. And you don’t need 19-inch arms to do that.

Now the sad part. I come across people all the time doing gram plus a week gear and PH cycles that don’t even look like they train and can’t bench 200 for 10 or squat 275 for 10. This is primarily because they are clueless about how to eat and train, and believe the gear will iron-out all these mistakes—THEY ARE WRONG! Unless you know how to grow clean, you are unlikely to be successful in the long term by simply throwing a bunch of gear at the problem.

This is bodybuilding turned upside down and inside out. If you can’t make pretty fair gains training clean and invest some time to build your poundage’s up before jumping on the gear wagon, you need to reevaluate your training/diet, and you commitment to this sport, no matter what you reasons are for being involved with it.

Everyone who has read my posts knows I am not anti-PH/Steroid, but the horse must come before the cart.

Iron Addict

[BodyJBbuild]

[B]what is so hard to just read the steroid profiles and shit...