Came here because I've hit a wall

[Knoxy]

I've been working out on and off for about four years now and have seen some growth. I'm about 6'1" and 185 lbs. I have a very high metabolism and to experience even the slightest gains, I have to consume enormous amounts of calories. I've hit a wall with my workouts that I can't seem to break through. I've been keeping my food intake up but haven't made any recent gains, save for a layer of baby fat I've accumulated. The amount of weight I've been able to lift has basically flatlined and I'm not experiencing any gains in muscle mass. My goal is to put on roughly 20 lbs. of muscle bulk. Any suggestions on what to try?

[Chadd77]

Could you post your current diet?

[coffee-guy]

...and training program?

[Friggemall]

...and age?

[Knoxy]

Thanks for the patience, I"m new here. I'm 26 years old. I take in roughly 4500 cal a day with about a 3:1 ratio of carbs to protein and 20% fat. This all comes in at a rate of about 4 or 5 meals a day supplemented with whey protein and glutamine.
I can only put in 4 weight workouts per week due to my job. first day is chest and tris. I set bench, incline bench, decline bench, and close grip at three sets of 10, 8, 8; increasing weight each time. I then follow up with a series of 4 types of tricep extensions, etc. that I vary weekly (these are done with a cable) followed by dips and nose breakers.
Next day, I work back and bis, starting with curls and hammer curls that follow the same set pattern as above. I then do three sets of 21's (7 lower half curls, 7 upper half, and 7 full) using a standard bar. I then finish with reverse curls and preacher curls that follow the standard set pattern.
On the third day, I work legs and shoulders. I start of with backsquats in sets of 10, 8, 8; increasing weight each time. I follow this with a seated leg press and hack squats of the same sets. Next comes a set of barbell lunges and then forward leg externsions. I then do sets of standing calf raises and then sets on a seated calf machine. Next I do sets of 10, 8, 8 of lying leg curls. I then move to shoulders and do 2 sets 10, 8, 8 of upright rows with different length grips. I follow this with forward barbell raises, then later, then bent over to work the full delt. I end the day with two variations on military press.
On my fourth day, I work tris and bis. I basically do a close grip bench followed by the same routine as above and then the same bicep routine.
Thanks again for any advice you can give.

[SloppyJo]

yeah can you put a sample diet in like this

Meal# - time - food
Meal# - time - food..

it'll be easier to help if we know what and when you eat

[DiamondCutCows]

Also, at your weight, its not likely that your hormone levels are holding you back from putting more weight on. You've got a whole lot of potential, its just being held back by some factor (overtraining is possible, like i said above). Also with your meals: what kinds of carbs and proteins are you eating? And with that many calories, you might want to divide them up into more than 4 or 5 meals; I'm thinking more like 7-10.

Agreed on needing more meals!

I go 8 actual meals plus two shakes when going at 5k cals bulking...

[Stonecold54]

to much training to begin with. people don't realize that their endocrine systems do not "grow" with their strength and size progress...therefore as you get stronger and bigger you increase the inroads to recovery. you need more time to recoup what you lost. I would say back down to 3 days a week and cut your sets in half for each workout...(also I would recommend taking 2 weeks off to start).

[Pumpdogg]

Glowalla and Stone are right on the money... I too think you are over training and you need the 2 week break for your body to recover... Just had a friend of mine who has trained for 8 years take some time off, back down his outrageous amount of sets and reps and he began growing again... A natural bodybuilder can only do so much before we end up in the red..and it does not take much sometimes to upset the balance...

I also agree you should change the workouts... I always tell people to pay attention to the secondary muscles they are using like the shoulders,triceps,biceps etc... when making out their routine.. IMO you should not work chest one day and back the next...
too much stress on the shoulder joints.. and I also think you should only train your body parts once per week.

[Knoxy]

Thanks for all the advice. I"ve tweeked I"ve tweeked my diet some and have adjusted my workouts. I'll take the two weeks off and then try out the new routines. Thanks to all who posted and I'll let you know the results.

[Knoxy]

Also, what's everyone's view on whether to work or not work abs while you're trying to bulk up?

[Bouncer]

good advice here.

knoxy, as for your last question. always work your abs. a strong core is needed for stability. i train abs every other day.

[Puma]

This is very similar to the split that I have (seperating all the big muscles as much as possible). Here is what my split looks like (if I can ever do it again, I have been sick for a solid 2 weeks now). :(

Mon - Chest/Calves
Tue - Back/Abs
Wed - Off (or cardio)
Thur - Shoulders/Calves
Fri - Bis/Tris
Sat - Legs (except Calves)
Sun - Off

It seems to be working well for me; I put on a few pounds in the past months, and I have been quite a bit stronger as well. It always good to break up your routines; try something new. I am going to keep at this for another 2 months, and then switch it up again.

A program that promotes overtraining can be hard to detect at first, but this may be whats happening here. There are two things I don't like overall--one is working shoulders after back day, the other is working bis and tris twice a week. The reason i dont like the back/shoulders back to back thing is that both days hit the traps very hard. I myself didn't think that would be a problem and had a routine about 5 mos. ago that was set up like that. For 3 weeks in a row, not only did I not make gains, I lost strength in my back, traps, shoulders. I put a day of rest between the two and that fixed the problem completely. As per the bis/tris, its generally not necessary (in fact its detrimental) to work a body part out that often.

I don't know what your work schedule is like, but try a routine split like this:

Day 1: Chest
Day 2: Back
Day 3: OFF
Day 4: Shoulders/Bis
Day 5: Legs/Tris
Day 6: OFF
Day 7: OFF (or start the cycle over again, depending on your schedule)

You can switch 1/2 and 4/5 around, but I'd keep the members of each pair together and at least one day of rest is necessary between eac pair.

[daf2]

agree with the overtraining but just wondering how back one day and shoudlers the next is too much trap stimulation??

just take some time off get your diet in order 6-7 meals and try a different training split 3 days

[Severedties]

That is bullshit. What he listed was certainly not overtraining traps. That is being overly picky. Nobody will agree that pushing movenments should be separated from pulls, because they are "overworking the traps". You are overthinking the training Glowalla.
Heavy traps on pull day, will not be affected by shoulder work.
Never have my traps been after a good shoulder workout, but they always sore after back day.
I would not worry so much about indirect trap work, and start hitting them harder. THat is unless of course you have developed massive traps from your "good shoulder workouts", but I assume that is not the case.