Anavar's hepatoxicity?

[macD]

First off...Hi im new here! Been on other boards for a while now. Seems to be quite a lot of good knowledge here!! Look forward to hanging out here more often.

On to my questions...

I have often read that anavar, although c17, is not THAT toxic to the liver, when compared to similar doses of dbol and abomb etc. And it is often advised to be run for extended periods of time, eg. 8-12 weeks.

Given the example cycle of 500mg test prop/week and 40mg anavar ED, both for 8 weeks, how much of a problem do you think liver damage would/could be?

Has anyone had their liver values checked while on anavar? What were they like?

Would the addition of milk thistle or ala ED be advised?

[ROCKETW19]

first off welcome to the board. yes anavar is alot milder than the other oarls! 8 weeks i see no problem i have no clue if you get to the 12 week mark. never had my values checked while on cycle. and yes at least use milk thistle but there is a better product called liv-52

[Control]

First off...Hi im new here! Been on other boards for a while now. Seems to be quite a lot of good knowledge here!! Look forward to hanging out here more often.

On to my questions...

I have often read that anavar, although c17, is not THAT toxic to the liver, when compared to similar doses of dbol and abomb etc. And it is often advised to be run for extended periods of time, eg. 8-12 weeks.

Given the example cycle of 500mg test prop/week and 40mg anavar ED, both for 8 weeks, how much of a problem do you think liver damage would/could be?

Has anyone had their liver values checked while on anavar? What were they like?

Would the addition of milk thistle or ala ED be advised?

8 weeks is a short cycle IMO, I'd do at least 10, 12 or more would be best. That much var will end up costing you alot of money and the gains aren't that great. It may be "safer" but if the results aren't as good than why pay all that money? What are your long term/short term goals?

[macD]

Control, Im still researching for my first cycle. Health and safety are major concern for me, hence my concern with the anavar.

Stats are, 22yo, 6'1, 212lbs @ 17% BF. Although when/if i do this cycle i will have bulked up to 220lbs, then do a cut, back to about 205lbs @ 12% first.

Long term goal is ~225lbs @ 10%. Although i prob need more than one cycle to get there. Short term goal (from this cycle) is go from 205lbs @ 12% to 220lbs @ 13%.

Base of cycle will be a short estered test, prop or phenylprop, hence the reason for the shortness (8wks). I want to add an 'anabolic' to the mix, and i was deciding between anavar or NPP. Leaning towards anavar to avoid progestational problems from nandrolone.

Anavar would be powder, so cost isnt that much of a concern.

Also would be running HCG @ 500iu 2x/wk (as per swale) and 10mg nolva ED, to deal with the extra aromatisation from the HCG.

Thanks for any advice.

[Control]

Control, Im still researching for my first cycle. Health and safety are major concern for me, hence my concern with the anavar.

Stats are, 22yo, 6'1, 212lbs @ 17% BF. Although when/if i do this cycle i will have bulked up to 220lbs, then do a cut, back to about 205lbs @ 12% first.

Long term goal is ~225lbs @ 10%. Although i prob need more than one cycle to get there. Short term goal (from this cycle) is go from 205lbs @ 12% to 220lbs @ 13%.

Base of cycle will be a short estered test, prop or phenylprop, hence the reason for the shortness (8wks). I want to add an 'anabolic' to the mix, and i was deciding between anavar or NPP. Leaning towards anavar to avoid progestational problems from nandrolone.

Anavar would be powder, so cost isnt that much of a concern.

Also would be running HCG @ 500iu 2x/wk (as per swale) and 10mg nolva ED, to deal with the extra aromatisation from the HCG.

Thanks for any advice.

At 22 you could probably gain 15 lbs of muscle without gear and not gain any fat just by eating right and training right, but if you really want to do a cycle I'd still do 10 weeks at the very least. That way you get the most out of your first cycle. You'd get better results from NPP than Var IMO and you could take care of the deca-dick and bloat (if that's what you meant by progestational problems) with proviron. That would make a good first cycle IMO, although I'd probably go with prop and tren. Oh, and there's no reason to run hcg throughout a cycle, save it for post-cycle.

[Chadd77]

Why not just keep it simple with Test E or cyp at 500mg/week for 10-12 weeks??

[Ashop]

ive ran anavar in 16 wk cycle before and liver values were close to normal..barely elevated at all.

[ROCKETW19]

Why not just keep it simple with Test E or cyp at 500mg/week for 10-12 weeks??

i agree..... i should have asked cycle history. first cycle should be one compound you will know what it does or doesnt do to your body if you take 2 different compounds you wont know what did what.

[macD]

At 22 you could probably gain 15 lbs of muscle without gear and not gain any fat just by eating right and training right, but if you really want to do a cycle I'd still do 10 weeks at the very least. That way you get the most out of your first cycle. You'd get better results from NPP than Var IMO and you could take care of the deca-dick and bloat (if that's what you meant by progestational problems) with proviron. That would make a good first cycle IMO, although I'd probably go with prop and tren. Oh, and there's no reason to run hcg throughout a cycle, save it for post-cycle.

Thanks for everyones comments.

Im certainly not rushing into my first cycle, and i do realise i can gain more naturally, im just looking ahead to the future, so im prepared.

The cycle length comes back to safety concers. 8 weeks of test prop shuts down my HTPA for 8.5 weeks. But 10 weeks of enathate/cypionate would shut down my HTPA for 12 weeks, due to the natural taper of the ester.

By progestational problems i was reffering to nandrolones ability to act as a progestin. Sides include possible prolactin gyno, which nolva wont fix. I know its not that big a concern, but its still a concern.

From my extensive reading HCG during a cycle seems to be the way to go, as opposed to post cycle. But this is a debate for another time...

[macD]

ive ran anavar in 16 wk cycle before and liver values were close to normal..barely elevated at all.

Thats exactly what i wanted to know, thanks Alin!

[macD]

i agree..... i should have asked cycle history. first cycle should be one compound you will know what it does or doesnt do to your body if you take 2 different compounds you wont know what did what.

On the whole i agree. And that one compound would obviously be test.

The reason i wanted to add another steroid is, from what i have been reading, testosterone reduces collagen synthesis, making the user more prone to injury. Wereas nandrolone, eq, primo, var and HGH all INCREASE collagen synthesis. I though it would be favourable to combine one of the compounds from the above list. Eq is out - ester to long for short cycle. Primo is out - too expensive, as too is HGH. Which leaves anavar or nandrolone.

Thoughts?

[Skyefire]

On the whole i agree. And that one compound would obviously be test.

The reason i wanted to add another steroid is, from what i have been reading, testosterone reduces collagen synthesis, making the user more prone to injury. Wereas nandrolone, eq, primo, var and HGH all INCREASE collagen synthesis. I though it would be favourable to combine one of the compounds from the above list. Eq is out - ester to long for short cycle. Primo is out - too expensive, as too is HGH. Which leaves anavar or nandrolone.

Thoughts?

it does but running another steriod will not totally conter the effect, it can help though. Be carefule here though because even though a steriod may increase the collagen synth that does not make for less injuries, winny being a prime example. usually a short mild cycle of test is reasonable so long as you don't over do it. IMO adding a second compond is a good idea but not if doesn't fit in with your goals/plans. If your looking for another option you can always find shorter versions of the steriods you listed above, nandrolone cyp or NPP and Boldrolone prop are two that come to mind.

If your are injury prone then you might want to consider a nandrolone or boldrolone based cycle. For instance running 400 to 500mg of NPP and 200 to 300mg of test prop. Just remember that the PP eseter is very heavy so your not anywhere close to 500mg onf Nandrolone

I used to not like NPP much but I have come around on it somewhat of late as being a better option then I thought. You could not do much better then test prop and NPP for a first cycle provided that you are absoulutely sure that you don't mind the ED or EOD injects.

And major props for doing your homework before posting. its obvous that you have been reading up on this

[macD]

Thanks for the comments and kind words skyfire.

No, im not injury prone, im just being cautious.

Lets say i opted for test prop at 350mg/wk and added the NPP. At what dose would progestational sides be a concern?

And also on the EOD injects...it is the only drawback of the short estered cycle. Lets hope i dont mind injecting!!

[Control]

Thanks for everyones comments.

Im certainly not rushing into my first cycle, and i do realise i can gain more naturally, im just looking ahead to the future, so im prepared.

The cycle length comes back to safety concers. 8 weeks of test prop shuts down my HTPA for 8.5 weeks. But 10 weeks of enathate/cypionate would shut down my HTPA for 12 weeks, due to the natural taper of the ester.

By progestational problems i was reffering to nandrolones ability to act as a progestin. Sides include possible prolactin gyno, which nolva wont fix. I know its not that big a concern, but its still a concern.

From my extensive reading HCG during a cycle seems to be the way to go, as opposed to post cycle. But this is a debate for another time...

Sure you won't be shutdown as long from an 8 week cycle as a 10 or 12 week cycle, but you won't gain as much either and the gains will be harder to maintain. You can get gyno from Nandrolone or tren but it is not common. I've run these compounds many times without getting gyno symptoms. In fact, the only time I've felt gyno coming on was when I did a prohormone cycle. Speaking of gyno, you can get gyno from hcg, which is the reason I don't run it untill post-cycle. I don't believe that you can restore your natural test while on cycle, so why bother taking hcg?

[ROCKETW19]

i get progest gyno real easy! anything over 350mgs of tren and my nipps freak out. im also a beliver to use HCG durring a cycle. not a 8 week cycle though. anything over 12 weeks ill use HCG at 250ius 2 times a week. also like sky said you sure as hell did your research but i think your readin in to it to much. like goin with prop just so you wont be shut down 2 extra weeks. i just finished a 6month cycle and recovered in about 6 weeks. i dont think your gonna like the ED or EOD injections for 8 weeks. seriously i would go with test E (500mgs a week) by its self for 10-12 weeks. very simple and youll give your body a chance to get used to the new weight. but hey thats just my opinion.