Anavar's hepatoxicity?

[Skyefire]

Thanks for the comments and kind words skyfire.

No, im not injury prone, im just being cautious.

Lets say i opted for test prop at 350mg/wk and added the NPP. At what dose would progestational sides be a concern?

And also on the EOD injects...it is the only drawback of the short estered cycle. Lets hope i dont mind injecting!!

First lets get the progestrone sides thing streaght, it does not cause gyno. it can however agervate it in people that are prone to it or just sensitive to the progestorne. so as to what does that is impossible to say.

I would not run less then 400 to 500mg of the npp due to the wieght of the ester (test prop is about 83% test and NPP is like 60 something % nand.). So if your going light (not a bad idea for a first cycle then 350mg test prop a week and 400mg of NPP would not be bad.

For the HCG usage I always follow swales protocal (as he is an actual doctor that deals with this) go here http://www.superiormuscle.com/vbulle...ghlight=swales

[Control]

First lets get the progestrone sides thing streaght, it does not cause gyno. it can however agervate it in people that are prone to it or just sensitive to the progestorne. so as to what does that is impossible to say.

I would not run less then 400 to 500mg of the npp due to the wieght of the ester (test prop is about 83% test and NPP is like 60 something % nand.). So if your going light (not a bad idea for a first cycle then 350mg test prop a week and 400mg of NPP would not be bad.

For the HCG usage I always follow swales protocal (as he is an actual doctor that deals with this) go here http://www.superiormuscle.com/vbulle...ghlight=swales

Well, I'm not going to argue with a doctor, because he has alot more qualifications than a meat-head like me but, the only way I would run hcg throughout a cycle is if I was running an anti-E like nolvadex at the same time. That might be safer in terms of side-effects, but it's also going to limit your gains. I've actually run anti-E's throughout a cycle before and the gains were alot less, not only during the cycle but post-cycle.

[Skyefire]

Well, I'm not going to argue with a doctor, because he has alot more qualifications than a meat-head like me but, the only way I would run hcg throughout a cycle is if I was running an anti-E like nolvadex at the same time. That might be safer in terms of side-effects, but it's also going to limit your gains. I've actually run anti-E's throughout a cycle before and the gains were alot less, not only during the cycle but post-cycle.

agreed on the nolvadex. I always run it anyway for a couple of reasons, one being the lipid benfits, another the thing about an ounce of prevention and so on. but really 10 to 20mg a day of nolvadex isn't going to reduce your gains that much and it buys a lot of insurance. Most of the time the people that I have heard complaining about the nolvadex could easily atribute most of the lack of gains on the AIs there were running, nolvadex gives you most of the benfits of estrogen as it is a selective receptor binder and allows the estrogen to remain in the blood stream. I can see though were the serous BBers would try to avoid if possible.

[pockethercules]

Well every one has an opinion so I will post mine from what I have read and seen what works from hands on experience. Again just my opinion, and props for reading up. I'll try to be short and sweet.

I would only run the HCG for pct. I would go with test in cyp or enant. and if you can get it, go with nandrolone cyp. Something you will probably figure out real quick is that prop. is not an injection that feels good, so expect some pain. It probably varries from person to person but personaly if i shoot prop I'm limping for 3 days. and that doesn't make for very intense workouts when you have pain in your muscles.

I commend you on your homework, but don't over think this. Keep it simple 500mg test e and 400mg nand cyp., eat right and I mean as much as you can for the nandrolone to work and workout hard and get plenty of rest. Start pct 2 weeks after last shot with HCG and nolva or clomid and you will be more than happy with the results. Best of luck to you!

[macD]

agreed on the nolvadex. I always run it anyway for a couple of reasons, one being the lipid benfits, another the thing about an ounce of prevention and so on. but really 10 to 20mg a day of nolvadex isn't going to reduce your gains that much and it buys a lot of insurance. Most of the time the people that I have heard complaining about the nolvadex could easily atribute most of the lack of gains on the AIs there were running, nolvadex gives you most of the benfits of estrogen as it is a selective receptor binder and allows the estrogen to remain in the blood stream. I can see though were the serous BBers would try to avoid if possible.

This is exactly what a would do. I think i mentioned swales protocol in one of my above posts, as well as adding a small amount of nolvadex ED, if HCG is used during cycle.

Any possible limit in gains, i believe, would be made up for in avoidance of sides.

[macD]

Well every one has an opinion so I will post mine from what I have read and seen what works from hands on experience. Again just my opinion, and props for reading up. I'll try to be short and sweet.

I would only run the HCG for pct. I would go with test in cyp or enant. and if you can get it, go with nandrolone cyp. Something you will probably figure out real quick is that prop. is not an injection that feels good, so expect some pain. It probably varries from person to person but personaly if i shoot prop I'm limping for 3 days. and that doesn't make for very intense workouts when you have pain in your muscles.

I commend you on your homework, but don't over think this. Keep it simple 500mg test e and 400mg nand cyp., eat right and I mean as much as you can for the nandrolone to work and workout hard and get plenty of rest. Start pct 2 weeks after last shot with HCG and nolva or clomid and you will be more than happy with the results. Best of luck to you!

The prop pain is something i have thought about, and thats why i may go for phenylpropionate instead. I have spoken(over the net) to a few guys who have used this ester, and they say the pain is not anywhere as bad as prop, and the half life is only slightly longer.

As i said still researching at this stage so i may indeed end up going with something like what you mentioned. But thanks for the advice...much appreciated!

[Skyefire]

make your own and the prop doesn't hurt.

[macD]

Been doing some more thinking/reading on this and ive come up with a new possibility. All comment welcome!

Wk 1-8 - Test cyp/enanth ~400mg/wk (dose split twice/wk)
Wk 1-3 - Oxandrolone 40mg ED
Wk 7-9 - Oxandrolone 40mg ED

Wk 10-13 Clomid/Nolva PCT


Oxandrolone's use is limited to two 3-week periods. Once at the start to kick start cycle while test levels build up. Then again at the end while test levels taper down. PCT can then start straight away.

PCT starts ~11 days after last testosterone shot and the day after last oxandrolone dose.

Frequent injections, and possible prop pain are avoided by using a longer estered test. HTPA out of action for only ~10 weeks.

Thoughts??

[zed]

I sooo new here...sorry if im totally clueless im just trying to learn as much as possible...i have a REAL BASIC ? for you guys...from what ive read it sounds like you actually lose a noticable amount of muscle AFTER the cycle?? And there is certain compounds you take during the cycle (possibly ancillaries from what i read) that limit how much muscle you pack on??

[Skyefire]

I sooo new here...sorry if im totally clueless im just trying to learn as much as possible...i have a REAL BASIC ? for you guys...from what ive read it sounds like you actually lose a noticable amount of muscle AFTER the cycle?? And there is certain compounds you take during the cycle (possibly ancillaries from what i read) that limit how much muscle you pack on??

well welcome. there are several links that can help you here. also there are several steriod e books floating around, grab one. as for links try these

http://www.superiormuscle.com/vbulle...splay.php?f=26

http://www.chemicalfitness.com/forum...ead.php?t=3574