OK, what was she on? (Marion Jones)

[Bouncer]

Bouncer, the IAAF/IOC/WADA had already defined what cheating is. They have a long list of chemicals that if detected in your body through their tests, will result in punitive action. The corollary is that as long as you discover that chemical XYZ aids your training or recovery, you are free to take it as long as it is not on the list. One may not like their rules, or may think they are arbitrary or capricious or whatever. Regardless, they are the rules. And they are defined in black and white.

I hear what you are saying, that the playing field is not level already because some athletes have better genetics, or better access to allowed nutritional aids, or live in first-world countries with better access to training or whatever. Those are all legitimate points. However, that is tangential to the issue at hand - there are rules in place that are very clear and anyone who breaks those rules is cheating.

i hear what you are saying and I guess i cant really argue with that. i guess my problem isn't really with the set rules. my problem is more with the media and the general view.

[Scrumhalf]

i brought this up with YJ but i think i should bring it up here to. scrum, please define cheating for me. are the athletes that are running a special cocktail of supplements designed by nutrition/supplement gurus cheating? those people would have an advantage over those who aren't on those supplements. how about the athletes that have their own nutritionist? are they cheating over athletes who don't have one? how about athletes that have higher natural test or gh levels? they have an advantage, are they cheating? nothing is ever fair and nothing is ever equal. where do you draw the line on what is and isnt cheating.

Bouncer, the IAAF/IOC/WADA had already defined what cheating is. They have a long list of chemicals that if detected in your body through their tests, will result in punitive action. The corollary is that as long as you discover that chemical XYZ aids your training or recovery, you are free to take it as long as it is not on the list. One may not like their rules, or may think they are arbitrary or capricious or whatever. Regardless, they are the rules. And they are defined in black and white.

I hear what you are saying, that the playing field is not level already because some athletes have better genetics, or better access to allowed nutritional aids, or live in first-world countries with better access to training or whatever. Those are all legitimate points. However, that is tangential to the issue at hand - there are rules in place that are very clear and anyone who breaks those rules is cheating.

[Bouncer]

I do see your point...But you can not win over media bro...

so do you agree with what i am saying or disagree? seems like you are going both ways. lol.

[Bouncer]

so you dont think there is any media hype and BS involving steroids? you dont see the irony of someone calling someone else a cheater or putting them down as they go smoke a cigarette or pop a pill to escape from stress?

why is having a nutrition/supplement guru, cocktails of supplements, naturally higher test and GH levels over someone who dosen't have those things not seen as an advantage and steroids is?

you see my point rado, i am not trying to argue with you, just trying to make people see the irony and BS with all of this.

[Bouncer]

your not answering my question. your giving me the definition of the word cheating and then throwing in obvious crap. when i say, "define cheating" i don't mean the definition from Websters you idiot. i am talking about what we as people see as cheating and the hypocrisy of the media and the public.

[Bouncer]

She cheated....

don't post if you are going to reply with 2 word and 3 word posts or definitions. answer my question to scrum and put some effort into it, otherwise shut the hell up.

[Bouncer]

True...But we all understand that taking AS for the purpose of sports, is an advantage...In every sport there's is cheating...Nascar, Golf, Basketball, etc...Even in politics there's cheating...

so whats your point? lol.

[Bouncer]

With all due respect, I think you are underestimating my intelligence here.

My point about the silver medalist is not to be taken literally but rather to make a point. Maybe you assert that nobody who makes it to the Olympics is drug free. Fine. However, at some point or some level, there is a drug-free athlete who is cheated by a drug-taking athlete simply because the former is playing by the rules and the latter is not. It's as simple as that.

Note that I'm not passing judgment on the rules. But for better or worse, the rules are what they are and athletes who compete in the Olympics and IAAF-sanctioned competitions must abide by them.

I don't like to pay taxes either but I am not about to commit tax fraud because of that. I'd approach the problem by voting for a candidate whose vision of taxation matches mine. If athletes don't like the rules, they should work on changing them, or coming up with test-free competitions (like bodybuilding).

My point is that my sympathies are with the drug-free athletes, whatever level they may be at. I don't like cheaters regardless of the enterprise they are engaged in. And if they are caught, I am not going to lose any sleep if they get the book thrown at them.

Now, I realize that not too many people on this board will, for obvious reasons, agree with the current rules relating to drugs in athletics. However, surely more people than I would recognize the obvious hypocrisy instead of just insinuating "media BS" and somehow making athletes like Marion Jones to be heroes or martyrs.

i brought this up with YJ but i think i should bring it up here to. scrum, please define cheating for me. are the athletes that are running a special cocktail of supplements designed by nutrition/supplement gurus cheating? those people would have an advantage over those who aren't on those supplements. how about the athletes that have their own nutritionist? are they cheating over athletes who don't have one? how about athletes that have higher natural test or gh levels? they have an advantage, are they cheating? nothing is ever fair and nothing is ever equal. where do you draw the line on what is and isnt cheating.

[Scrumhalf]

I think its funny you think this exsists... way to eat up the media bs.

With all due respect, I think you are underestimating my intelligence here.

My point about the silver medalist is not to be taken literally but rather to make a point. Maybe you assert that nobody who makes it to the Olympics is drug free. Fine. However, at some point or some level, there is a drug-free athlete who is cheated by a drug-taking athlete simply because the former is playing by the rules and the latter is not. It's as simple as that.

Note that I'm not passing judgment on the rules. But for better or worse, the rules are what they are and athletes who compete in the Olympics and IAAF-sanctioned competitions must abide by them.

I don't like to pay taxes either but I am not about to commit tax fraud because of that. I'd approach the problem by voting for a candidate whose vision of taxation matches mine. If athletes don't like the rules, they should work on changing them, or coming up with test-free competitions (like bodybuilding).

My point is that my sympathies are with the drug-free athletes, whatever level they may be at. I don't like cheaters regardless of the enterprise they are engaged in. And if they are caught, I am not going to lose any sleep if they get the book thrown at them.

Now, I realize that not too many people on this board will, for obvious reasons, agree with the current rules relating to drugs in athletics. However, surely more people than I would recognize the obvious hypocrisy instead of just insinuating "media BS" and somehow making athletes like Marion Jones to be heroes or martyrs.

[Scrumhalf]

I don't think there are any drug-free athletes winning silver at the olympics. Just athletes who had doctors smart enough to design a drug regimen to beat testing.

Fair enough, but the notion that her records were legitimate and should not be erased is laughable. She broke the rules and got caught and must face the consequences.

[ROCKETW19]

Is "The Clear" even gettable by the average person without top-level Balco connections? Me likey those results!

the clear can be had but it wont realy be the clear. all they took was tren=THG with GH and test. you also must remember they had full blown blood work up and Mr conti knew exactly what your body needed to work its best. They had it down to the littlest things and gave you what you needed. say you were missing 1.3mgs of zinc he knew and gave it to you in the exact dose.

[hitmansb]

I doubt any athlete who was drug-free and had a bunch of silver medals to show for it against Marion's golds would be inclined to agree with you. What happened to the notion of fair play?

I don't think there are any drug-free athletes winning silver at the olympics. Just athletes who had doctors smart enough to design a drug regimen to beat testing.

[NYCmitch25]

I doubt any athlete who was drug-free and had a bunch of silver medals

I think its funny you think this exsists... way to eat up the media bs.

[Scrumhalf]

her records are impressive and should not be erased .... they came from her hard work and dedicatoin... its not just a magic pill the media wants everyone to believe it is. like anyone could do it. gime me a break

I doubt any athlete who was drug-free and had a bunch of silver medals to show for it against Marion's golds would be inclined to agree with you. What happened to the notion of fair play?

[Bouncer]

yep.
these altheletes have to learn how to be discrete about it ... inject themselves, no witnesses, no trainers, no recites or paper trail. dam seems obvious to me??????

her records are impressive and should not be erased .... they came from her hard work and dedicatoin... its not just a magic pill the media wants everyone to believe it is. like anyone could do it. gime me a break

i am sure that faggot YJ will be along to tell you that "IT WAS ALL DRUGS." lol