The End is Near!

[3v1lj03]

I have 2 more weeks of Tren left I am on this long time cut cycle and I have been reducing calories regularly throughout. I am still stuck at about 11 to 12 % body fat. The results have been dramatic however I am still several percentage points above where I want to be. Can I make a drastic cut in calories in these last weeks and even onto the pct of sorts i have planned? (I am on HRT) I have had some recommendations to try carb cycling and I am still learning about that and I am not sure if I can put it together in time for the end of this cycle. I cardio my ass off 3 times a week or more and I have not had a cheat meal in more than a month. I am not afraid to be hungry as it is a normal state with me anymore. I have maintained my protein except for 3 days last week. I drink 2 gallons of water a day and themos have had no effect on me. So what do you think is it possible to get any of this fat off in the next two weeks or am I stuck at the snails pace I have seen thus far? Starvation diet? (That's what some of Personal Trainers at the gym say I am on now.)

I also do 25 mg of t3 ed

[hitmansb]

A drastic calorie cut during PCT is a terrible idea, IMO. The last thing you want to do is have a catabolic environment going on when your gear has left your system and your own test production isn't fully on-line yet. Stick with the program you've been on...you're not likely to achieve some huge success in the final weeks. You said you've done great so far...perhaps you're getting greedy? There's always the next time around to hit your goal. Concentrate on solidifying your muscle gains for the final weeks, eat clean but with a high protein intake during PCT and off-time, and you'll be in a much better starting point when you begin your next run...all but guaranteeing that you'll hit your target.

[ROCKETW19]

I agree with hitman dont starve your self you will loose that muscle you worked hard for. What is your current BMR and how many cals are you taking in each day? Where are your cals comming from? What kind of cardio and intensity are you doing? Last question what %BF did you start at?
I also belive you should cheat at least 1 meal a week for the sake of not going crazy.

[Kiev]

I used to run and most people don't understand cardio and calorie burn. The bigger you are the more calories you burn but also the faster you move. Do more cadio and up the speed and difficulty. Feel that BURN!!!

[3v1lj03]

I agree with hitman dont starve your self you will loose that muscle you worked hard for. What is your current BMR and how many cals are you taking in each day? Where are your cals comming from? What kind of cardio and intensity are you doing? Last question what %BF did you start at?
I also belive you should cheat at least 1 meal a week for the sake of not going crazy.

Current BMR of 1921.48 calculated total energy requirements are 2699 calories per day
Current Bf% (my measurement seem to confuse most of the easy to use calculators and they give ridiculously low #s) According to the thread on this board I think it is about 11 to 12% my goal was 9 to 10%
Current Diet/Schedule:
5 am Get up , take t3

6:30 am 3 whole eggs , zinc 50 mg, magnesium 400 mg, b6 100 mg , b12 2000 mcg, Glucosomine HCI/ MSM 750 mg each

9am 5 oz tuna and vegetables usually broccoli

11AM 7 oz chicken breast and salad plain or with oil

2:15pm 7 oz chicken and 1/2 cup oatmeal Multi Vit/mineral/ anti ox, Magnesium 400 mg, B12 1000 mcg, sometimes 200 to 600 mg caffeine

3 pm Workout

4:30 whey protein shake

6:30 pm Dinner with family. Varies but, I get at least 50 grams protein, fat and lots of vegetables at this meal.

9:30 to 10 pm Protein shake and flax oil 3600 mg

Total Calories: 1885
Total Protein:259
Total Carbs:79
Total Fat:42

Difference from BMR: 36.48 cals
Difference from Energy Req: 814

Current body wieght is 202 lbs I started at 220 lbs about 15% bf (could just see upper abs)

Some of these calculations for energy use my age which is 41 yrs old and I think that causes thing to go out of whack a little.

My BMR at the start of this cut was 3,352 I have lost 20 lbs and everybody who sees me says that I have put on mass. So I don't believe I have lost muscle at this point. My

I know there are a few timing bugs in this but, since I was forced to go back to day shift this is the best I have been able to do so far I am still trying to improve the timing

Cardio is low intensity 3 times a week for 30 to 40 mins. I am trying to work out a way I can get it done in the am before I eat. This will make it couple of hours after waking before I eat. Not sure how bad that will be for me. But, if a change in timing of the cardio will get me closer I am defiantly going to do it

I am already crazy so I won't go crazy. No worries there.

Thanks for looking at this.

[coffee-guy]

Current BMR of 1921.48 calculated total energy requirements are 2699 calories per day
Current Bf% (my measurement seem to confuse most of the easy to use calculators and they give ridiculously low #s) According to the thread on this board I think it is about 11 to 12% my goal was 9 to 10%
Current Diet/Schedule:
5 am Get up , take t3

6:30 am 3 whole eggs , zinc 50 mg, magnesium 400 mg, b6 100 mg , b12 2000 mcg, Glucosomine HCI/ MSM 750 mg each

9am 5 oz tuna and vegetables usually broccoli

11AM 7 oz chicken breast and salad plain or with oil

2:15pm 7 oz chicken and 1/2 cup oatmeal Multi Vit/mineral/ anti ox, Magnesium 400 mg, B12 1000 mcg, sometimes 200 to 600 mg caffeine

3 pm Workout

4:30 whey protein shake

6:30 pm Dinner with family. Varies but, I get at least 50 grams protein, fat and lots of vegetables at this meal.

9:30 to 10 pm Protein shake and flax oil 3600 mg

Total Calories: 1885
Total Protein:259
Total Carbs:79
Total Fat:42

Difference from BMR: 36.48 cals
Difference from Energy Req: 814

Current body wieght is 202 lbs I started at 220 lbs about 15% bf (could just see upper abs)

Some of these calculations for energy use my age which is 41 yrs old and I think that causes thing to go out of whack a little.

My BMR at the start of this cut was 3,352 I have lost 20 lbs and everybody who sees me says that I have put on mass. So I don't believe I have lost muscle at this point. My

I know there are a few timing bugs in this but, since I was forced to go back to day shift this is the best I have been able to do so far I am still trying to improve the timing

Cardio is low intensity 3 times a week for 30 to 40 mins. I am trying to work out a way I can get it done in the am before I eat. This will make it couple of hours after waking before I eat. Not sure how bad that will be for me. But, if a change in timing of the cardio will get me closer I am defiantly going to do it

I am already crazy so I won't go crazy. No worries there.

Thanks for looking at this.

Whoa brother - forget about ketosis - it isn't that necessary for *bodybuilding* and definitely isn't something you should be concerned with trying to get from 11% bf to 9% bf!!!!
Your carbs are WAY too low and the ones you are counting don't really *count* IMO. Carbs from green vegetables shouldn't be a factor - which means the ONLY carbs you're getting are from half a cup of oats and they aren't even in the morning where they should be.

You need to ramp your carbs up and bring the cardio into play - I realize I am not *you* but I kept my carbs in the 200+ range until 6 days out from my last show and was around the 5%-6% bf mark. There is no need to cut carbs the way you are unless you're simply looking to flatten out/lose muscle.

If this has been your approach to carb cycling (counting vegetables etc) then you've been robbing yourself there as well. Again - ketosis doesn't need to be achieved and it definitely doesn't need to be maintained for any length of time when trying to accomplish what you are....

[3v1lj03]

Whoa brother - forget about ketosis - it isn't that necessary for *bodybuilding* and definitely isn't something you should be concerned with trying to get from 11% bf to 9% bf!!!!
Your carbs are WAY too low and the ones you are counting don't really *count* IMO. Carbs from green vegetables shouldn't be a factor - which means the ONLY carbs you're getting are from half a cup of oats and they aren't even in the morning where they should be.

You need to ramp your carbs up and bring the cardio into play - I realize I am not *you* but I kept my carbs in the 200+ range until 6 days out from my last show and was around the 5%-6% bf mark. There is no need to cut carbs the way you are unless you're simply looking to flatten out/lose muscle.

If this has been your approach to carb cycling (counting vegetables etc) then you've been robbing yourself there as well. Again - ketosis doesn't need to be achieved and it definitely doesn't need to be maintained for any length of time when trying to accomplish what you are....

You know Fog I think agree with you on this. I am still digesting the advice you have given me about carbs , carb cycling, and insulin control and I am working on a diet based of of allot of other info from this board and other places. I just wanted to post what I am really doing right now and not any pie in the sky stuff. I have kinda depended on the feed efficacy improving qualities of the tren and as I cycle off of it I am concerned I will run into either fat gain to maintain muscle or muscle loss. So, that is why I am here looking for input. I really do value your input so thanks

Why do you think I should have oatmeal in the morning instead of pre-work out?

[coffee-guy]

You just have to stick to one diet and go with it - if this is the one you want to try and maintain to see what it does for you then that's great. I just think you'll be a lot better off giving your body more fuel to feed itself. Ketosis is *supposed* to TRICK your body into using fat as a fuel source instead of carbs but it takes a LONG time for your body to actually do this efficiently. Muscle loss tends to happen between the 1st and 3rd weeks (sometimes 4+ for some people) when then body is still tying to fully utilize fat the same way carbs are used. The body uses carbs the way it does for a reason - because it is the most efficient form of energy available for ALL parts of the body (most importantly the brain).

Ketosis is something that should only be used for people who need longterm changes in the body and cannot achieve them any other way - still it is NOT the ideal way to change body composition - especially for someone who cherishes muscle mass.

Carb cycling can be done in many ways BUT the key is not to achieve and maintain ketosis - it is simply to keep your body guessing as to where it's next fuel source will be coming from. Your body can adjust to changes to diet within 48-72 hours and water fluctuations within 12-24 hours (hence carb loading and water cutting time lines for *most* competitors). What carb cycling should be focused on is refeed sessions in the form of either cheat meals or clean carb rampups - it can be done different ways but the underlying concept still remains.

Just know that your body is most effective at burning fat with ways it was designed to do so - not tricks that cause you to counteract what your body was made to do.

I would urge you to just try ONE diet for a while - listening to everyone is a great way to gain knowledge for what works for others but listening to your own body is the best way to achieve YOUR goals. My only fear is that your current diet/cardio plans aren't what are best for you - and that speculation comes strictly from you saying it isn't working/hasn't worked the way you want it to...

[coffee-guy]

Oh yeah - and the oatmeal situation is simply the fact that you're putting it in pre-workout to fill glycogen stores and it simply won't happen that quickly when you're already in such a deficit carb wise. You're better off getting them in first thing in the morning BUT you're even better off ramping your total carbs up throughout the day.

[coffee-guy]

Oh yeah - and the oatmeal situation is simply the fact that you're putting it in pre-workout to fill glycogen stores and it simply won't happen that quickly when you're already in such a deficit carb wise. You're better off getting them in first thing in the morning BUT you're even better off ramping your total carbs up throughout the day.

That and you have to remember - if you're going for a true *no carb* diet it has to be EXACTLY that - NO CARBS. If you're throwing 30 carbs from oats in the mix everyday you're defeating the purpose of the no carb diet itself...

[Bouncer]

Current Diet/Schedule:
5 am Get up , take t3

6:30 am 3 whole eggs , zinc 50 mg, magnesium 400 mg, b6 100 mg , b12 2000 mcg, Glucosomine HCI/ MSM 750 mg each

9am 5 oz tuna and vegetables usually broccoli

11AM 7 oz chicken breast and salad plain or with oil

2:15pm 7 oz chicken and 1/2 cup oatmeal Multi Vit/mineral/ anti ox, Magnesium 400 mg, B12 1000 mcg, sometimes 200 to 600 mg caffeine

3 pm Workout

4:30 whey protein shake

6:30 pm Dinner with family. Varies but, I get at least 50 grams protein, fat and lots of vegetables at this meal.

9:30 to 10 pm Protein shake and flax oil 3600 mg

Total Calories: 1885
Total Protein:259
Total Carbs:79
Total Fat:42

that is a muscle wasting/metabolism slowing diet. just a mess bro. no disrespect but you need to change it.

me and fog disagree a bit on the carb idea. ketoses is the heart of the palumbo diet. its the diet that freeman used to get ready for this years O and its what pretty much every bodybuilder worth a damn in the north east is following. if you wanted to stick to your low/no carb diet that would be fine. what i would change though is your fat and protein intake. healthy fats are not the enemy so dont run away from them. fat is what will keep your muscle on especially in a no carb environment. when following a ketoses type plan, most people make the mistake of having fat intake levels to low. you need more natural peanut butter, extra virgin OO, fish oils etc.. get your fats up to 100-120 grams per day. protein up to 350 grams per day. that would put you around 2480 cals a day.

i would suggest you up the cardio to 40 min 5 times per weeks.

1 cheat meal per week. this will replenish muscle glycogen and give the metabolism a kick in the ass. just 1 cheat meal, not 2 or 3.

[Bouncer]

That and you have to remember - if you're going for a true *no carb* diet it has to be EXACTLY that - NO CARBS. If you're throwing 30 carbs from oats in the mix everyday you're defeating the purpose of the no carb diet itself...

just to clarify a bit and not confuse people. a small amount of carbs from things like natural peanut butter, broccoli, are acceptable in a ketosis diet. those small amount of carbs will not pull you out of ketosis.

but yes, no oats etc in a ketosis plan.

[Bouncer]

its what pretty much every bodybuilder worth a damn in the north east is following.

wanted to clarify this comment. i don't mean that anyone not following this diet is worthless. i just meant that it is very big here in the north east and is one of the reasons your seeing many guys from Jersey, NY, etc.. winning and placing higher in the national level shows. palumbo really is one of the best minds/guru's in bodybuilding today, that's not even debatable.

[coffee-guy]

that is a muscle wasting/metabolism slowing diet. just a mess bro. no disrespect but you need to change it.

me and fog disagree a bit on the carb idea. ketoses is the heart of the palumbo diet. its the diet that freeman used to get ready for this years O and its what pretty much every bodybuilder worth a damn in the north east is following. if you wanted to stick to your low/no carb diet that would be fine. what i would change though is your fat and protein intake. healthy fats are not the enemy so dont run away from them. fat is what will keep your muscle on especially in a no carb environment. when following a ketoses type plan, most people make the mistake of having fat intake levels to low. you need more natural peanut butter, extra virgin OO, fish oils etc.. get your fats up to 100-120 grams per day. protein up to 350 grams per day. that would put you around 2480 cals a day.

i would suggest you up the cardio to 40 min 5 times per weeks.

1 cheat meal per week. this will replenish muscle glycogen and give the metabolism a kick in the ass. just 1 cheat meal, not 2 or 3.

I agree with you bro - the problem is that we aren't talking about getting this guy down to the bf%'s Palumbo gets his guys - we are talking about moving him away from the 11% mark to a round about 9% mark by getting rid of his muscle wasting diet.

As for the fats etc you're spot on for a ketosis diet layout - just not what the focus of going from 11% to 9% should be IMO.
As for the refeeds (refueling glycogen) I agree although it *can* be done every four or five days instead of every seven - only major area see a difference in our views and it isn't that major as the idea remains the same...

Again though - the focus is on moving from 11% to 9% - not a Palumbo competitor looking to get to 4% or less....

[coffee-guy]

just to clarify a bit and not confuse people. a small amount of carbs from things like natural peanut butter, broccoli, are acceptable in a ketosis diet. those small amount of carbs will not pull you out of ketosis.

but yes, no oats etc in a ketosis plan.

Exactly - I pointed that out in my first post though ;)