A-Rod admits steroid use

[The_Grinder]

why is taking test cheating but playing with injuries by way of loading up on cortizone shots is not?? .

because the rules say so. if they made a rule against cortizone shots it would be cheating to use those too.

is this an argument to say breaking the rules isn't cheating because everyone does it? or is this an argument saying the rules should be changed? (the second argument would make more sense)

[mormonmuscle]

because the rules say so. if they made a rule against cortizone shots it would be cheating to use those too.

is this an argument to say breaking the rules isn't cheating because everyone does it? or is this an argument saying the rules should be changed? (the second argument would make more sense)

The rules are against performance enhancers. Cortizone is a performance enhancer, Lasik surgery is a performance enhancer, but they aren't considered cheating, but they should be if they are going to have anabolic steroids as cheating.

[The_Grinder]

The rules are against performance enhancers. Cortizone is a performance enhancer, Lasik surgery is a performance enhancer, but they aren't considered cheating, but they should be if they are going to have anabolic steroids as cheating.

Try again. There is a banned substance list. Cortizone and lasik surgery are not on it. There is more to it than just a rule that says "stuff that makes you perform better".

This is straight from the MLB and the commissioner:
http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

A. Drugs of Abuse
Any and all drugs or substances included on Schedules I and II of the Code of Federal Regulations’ Schedule of Controlled Substances (“Schedule I or Schedule II”), as amended from time to time, shall be considered Drugs of Abuse covered by the Program; provided, however, that the Drugs of Abuse defined as Stimulants in Section 2.C below shall be treated as Stimulants rather than as Drugs of Abuse where expressly indicated in the Program. The following substances and their analogs are covered by the Program as Drugs of Abuse, their Schedule classification notwithstanding:
1. Cocaine
2. LSD
3. Marijuana
4. Opiates (e.g., Heroin, Codeine, Morphine)
5. MDMA (“Ecstasy”)
6. GHB; and
7. Phencyclidine (“PCP”)
B. Performance Enhancing Substances
Any and all anabolic androgenic steroids covered by Schedule III of the Code of Federal Regulations’ Schedule of Controlled Substances (“Schedule III”), as amended from time to time, shall be considered Performance Enhancing Substances covered by the Program. Anabolic androgenic steroids that are not covered by Schedule III but that may not be lawfully obtained or used in the United States (including “designer steroids”) shall also be considered Performance Enhancing Substances covered by the Program. In addition, certain hormones and agents with antiestrogenic activity shall be considered Performance Enhancing Substances covered by the program. The following is a non-exhaustive list of substances that shall be considered Performance Enhancing Substances covered by the Program:
1. Androstanediol
2. Androstanedione
3. Androstenediol
4. Androstenedione
5. Bolasterone
6. Boldenone
7. Boldione
8. Calusterone
9. Clenbuterol
5
10. Clostebol
11. Danazol
12. Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone
13. Desoxy-methyltestosterone
14. Δ1-dihydrotestosterone
15. 4-dihydrotestosterone
16. Drostanolone
17. Ethylestrenol
18. Fluoxymesterone
19. Formebolone
20. Furazabol
21. 13a-ethyl-17a-hydroxygon-4-en-3-one
22. Gestrinone
23. 4-hydroxytestosterone
24. 4-hydroxy-19-nortestosterone
25. Mestanolone
26. Mesterolone
27. Methandienone
28. Methandriol
29. Methenolone
30. Methyltestosterone
31. Mibolerone
32. 17a-methyl-Δ1-dihydrotestosterone
33. Nandrolone
34. Norandrostenediol
35. Norandrostenedione
36. Norbolethone
37. Norclostebol
38. Norethandrolone
39. Noretiocholanolone
40. Oxabolone
41. Oxandrolone
42. Oxymesterone
43. Oxymetholone
44. Prostanozol
45. Quinbolone
46. Stanozolol
47. Stenbolone
48. Testolactone
49. Testosterone
50. Tetrahydrogestrinone
51. Trenbolone
52. Any salt, ester or ether of a drug or substance listed above; and
53. Human Growth Hormone (“HGH”)
54. Insulin-like Growth Factor (IGF-1), including all isomers of IGF-1 sometimes referred to as Mechano Growth Factors
6
55. Gonadotrophins (including LH and hCG)
56. Aromatase Inhibitors, including Anastrazole, Lestrozole, Aminogluthemide, Exemestane, Formestane, and Testolactone
57. Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators, including Raloxifene, Tamoxifen and Toremifene
58. Other Anti-estrogens, including Clomiphene, Cyclophenil, and Fulvestrant
C. Stimulants
The following substances shall be considered Stimulants covered by the Program:
1. Amfepramone (Diethylproprion)
2. Amphetamine
3. Amphetaminil
4. Benzphetamine
5. Chloroamphetamine
6. Chlorphentermine
7. Clobenzorex
8. Clortermine
9. Dimethylamphetamine
10. Ephedrine
11. Ethylamphetamine
12. Famprofazone
13. Fencamfamine
14. Fenethylline
15. Fenfluramine
16. Fenproporex
17. Furfenorex
18. Mefenorex
19. Mesocarb
20. Mephentermine
21. Methylphenidate
22. Modafinil
23. Pemoline
24. Phenpentermine
25. Phentermine
26. Prolintane
27. Phendimetrazine (Phenmetrazine)
28. Propylhexedrine
29. Pyrovalerone; and
30. Selegiline

[mormonmuscle]

Try again. There is a banned substance list. Cortizone and lasik surgery are not on it. There is more to it than just a rule that says "stuff that makes you perform better".

This is straight from the MLB and the commissioner:
http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/pa/pdf/jda.pdf

A. Drugs of Abuse
Any and all drugs or substances included on Schedules I and II of the Code of Federal Regulations’ Schedule of Controlled Substances (“Schedule I or Schedule II”), as amended from time to time, shall be considered Drugs of Abuse covered by the Program; provided, however, that the Drugs of Abuse defined as Stimulants in Section 2.C below shall be treated as Stimulants rather than as Drugs of Abuse where expressly indicated in the Program. The following substances and their analogs are covered by the Program as Drugs of Abuse, their Schedule classification notwithstanding:
1. Cocaine
2. LSD
3. Marijuana
4. Opiates (e.g., Heroin, Codeine, Morphine)
5. MDMA (“Ecstasy”)
6. GHB; and
7. Phencyclidine (“PCP”)
B. Performance Enhancing Substances
Any and all anabolic androgenic steroids covered by Schedule III of the Code of Federal Regulations’ Schedule of Controlled Substances (“Schedule III”), as amended from time to time, shall be considered Performance Enhancing Substances covered by the Program. Anabolic androgenic steroids that are not covered by Schedule III but that may not be lawfully obtained or used in the United States (including “designer steroids”) shall also be considered Performance Enhancing Substances covered by the Program. In addition, certain hormones and agents with antiestrogenic activity shall be considered Performance Enhancing Substances covered by the program. The following is a non-exhaustive list of substances that shall be considered Performance Enhancing Substances covered by the Program:
1. Androstanediol
2. Androstanedione
3. Androstenediol
4. Androstenedione
5. Bolasterone
6. Boldenone
7. Boldione
8. Calusterone
9. Clenbuterol
5
10. Clostebol
11. Danazol
12. Dehydrochloromethyltestosterone
13. Desoxy-methyltestosterone
14. Δ1-dihydrotestosterone
15. 4-dihydrotestosterone
16. Drostanolone
17. Ethylestrenol
18. Fluoxymesterone
19. Formebolone
20. Furazabol
21. 13a-ethyl-17a-hydroxygon-4-en-3-one
22. Gestrinone
23. 4-hydroxytestosterone
24. 4-hydroxy-19-nortestosterone
25. Mestanolone
26. Mesterolone
27. Methandienone
28. Methandriol
29. Methenolone
30. Methyltestosterone
31. Mibolerone
32. 17a-methyl-Δ1-dihydrotestosterone
33. Nandrolone
34. Norandrostenediol
35. Norandrostenedione
36. Norbolethone
37. Norclostebol
38. Norethandrolone
39. Noretiocholanolone
40. Oxabolone
41. Oxandrolone
42. Oxymesterone
43. Oxymetholone
44. Prostanozol
45. Quinbolone
46. Stanozolol
47. Stenbolone
48. Testolactone
49. Testosterone
50. Tetrahydrogestrinone
51. Trenbolone
52. Any salt, ester or ether of a drug or substance listed above; and
53. Human Growth Hormone (“HGH”)
54. Insulin-like Growth Factor (IGF-1), including all isomers of IGF-1 sometimes referred to as Mechano Growth Factors
6
55. Gonadotrophins (including LH and hCG)
56. Aromatase Inhibitors, including Anastrazole, Lestrozole, Aminogluthemide, Exemestane, Formestane, and Testolactone
57. Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators, including Raloxifene, Tamoxifen and Toremifene
58. Other Anti-estrogens, including Clomiphene, Cyclophenil, and Fulvestrant
C. Stimulants
The following substances shall be considered Stimulants covered by the Program:
1. Amfepramone (Diethylproprion)
2. Amphetamine
3. Amphetaminil
4. Benzphetamine
5. Chloroamphetamine
6. Chlorphentermine
7. Clobenzorex
8. Clortermine
9. Dimethylamphetamine
10. Ephedrine
11. Ethylamphetamine
12. Famprofazone
13. Fencamfamine
14. Fenethylline
15. Fenfluramine
16. Fenproporex
17. Furfenorex
18. Mefenorex
19. Mesocarb
20. Mephentermine
21. Methylphenidate
22. Modafinil
23. Pemoline
24. Phenpentermine
25. Phentermine
26. Prolintane
27. Phendimetrazine (Phenmetrazine)
28. Propylhexedrine
29. Pyrovalerone; and
30. Selegiline

That is why they ban steroids, cause they think they are performance enhancers, and they consider it cheating to go above our God given abilities. My point is that if steroids are considered cheating, then so should Lasik, and Cortizone shots, since they all take them above our God given abilities.

[The_Grinder]

That is why they ban steroids, cause they think they are performance enhancers, and they consider it cheating to go above our God given abilities. My point is that if steroids are considered cheating, then so should Lasik, and Cortizone shots, since they all take them above our God given abilities.

well thats debating the whether the rule is fair, which is a completely different issue. personally i dont care either way as long as it is one way or the other. as long as it is this middle of the road stuff there will always be contreversy.

but we dont always like the rules. if we break them we are still cheating.

[mormonmuscle]

well thats debating the whether the rule is fair, which is a completely different issue. personally i dont care either way as long as it is one way or the other. as long as it is this middle of the road stuff there will always be contreversy.

but we dont always like the rules. if we break them we are still cheating.

I agree. It's cheating, but the reason it's banned is because they are performance enhancers and the other stuff I mentioned is too, so it is definitely the middle of the road debate. All performance enhancers should be banned or none should be banned.

[Shibby]

To add a log on the fire, where does "god given ability" end? Is it an the introduction of chemicals or... My point is, the intelligence of science grows incredibly fast. We have learned how to utilize natural substances along with something like and ice bath. We have been able to tack down torn meniscus instead of just removing it (although removing it will bring you back faster, but not as long term). Antibiotics and anti-inflammatories help heal bursitis and small tears...electrical stimulus, ultrasound... these are all external benefits of science.

[Stonecold54]

To add a log on the fire, where does "god given ability" end? Is it an the introduction of chemicals or... My point is, the intelligence of science grows incredibly fast. We have learned how to utilize natural substances along with something like and ice bath. We have been able to tack down torn meniscus instead of just removing it (although removing it will bring you back faster, but not as long term). Antibiotics and anti-inflammatories help heal bursitis and small tears...electrical stimulus, ultrasound... these are all external benefits of science.

its true....to put a label on something as "performance enhancing" and make it illegal is just retarded....its funny how for YEARS the common consensus was the steroids did NOTHING to enhance performance from every doctor on the planet...then all of the sudden they are the most evil thing because they make you a perfect human lol.....but the guy who eats healthier enhances his performance, the guy who sleeps better enhances his performance... maybe its the guy who meditates who enhances his performance...the list goes on and on. so did guys cheat the "Technical" rules of the sport of course......should the rules be changed YES....its funny how they ignore the amphetamine problem in baseball in the 70's and 80's....now THAT is a performance enhancer.

[wnabeabeast]

What does fucking steroids have to do with any of the talent? My body is loaded with steroids and I can't hit a fucking baseball even if my life depended on it. :D

[Stonecold54]

What does fucking steroids have to do with any of the talent? My body is loaded with steroids and I can't hit a fucking baseball even if my life depended on it. :D

and thats a good point...its really has nothing to do with the talent side of it....it has to do with the few extra feet you get from the hit to make it a homerun instead of a fly out....it has to do with the few milli seconds it takes you to get to a base before you get thrown out. all it does is enhance the bodies talent that exists. A-rod averaged 38 homeruns for his career, during his "Steroid" years he hit around 52 a year...so a few more balls got pushed further during those years....same as macquire, he could hit a fly ball but his fucking torque on his bat speed and forearms made the ball just fly out. would he have hit over 62 without? not a chance. would bonds? not a chance? would sosa? not a chance.