Tamoxifen

[Bouncer]

so how much should a I take for best results?normally always take 20mg tamoxifen everyday with last cycle,this time was going to do the same but every second day?

or you could do 10mg Every day.

[hairdoyler]

or you could do 10mg Every day.

how does 5mg twice a day sound.....:agreed::fight::whistle:

[Bouncer]

how does 5mg twice a day sound.....:agreed::fight::whistle:

2.5mgs 4 times a day. :retard:

[hairdoyler]

2.5mgs 4 times a day. :retard:

how do you have time to be so quick to answer

does no-one work or go to gym around here:thumup:

[Bouncer]

how do you have time to be so quick to answer

does no-one work or go to gym around here:thumup:

whats a gym? :retard:

[ROCKETW19]

I agree with this idea because I run cycles to gain lean mass, and without an AI, I feel bloated and fat and it's harder to judge quality muscle gains. I like to look fairly good 12 mts. a year, not look good 2mts. then look like crap 10 mts. and condider myself bulking.

Ok I can agree with what you are saying but it is totaly of topic.
OP wants size. You need estrogen to grow. He has never taking a cycle with out nolva. Why take something if you dont need it?

[Bouncer]

Why take something if you dont need it?

again, "better to be safe then sorry" comes to mind. he dosent want to deal with the possibility that gyno comes on.

[ROCKETW19]

again, "better to be safe then sorry" comes to mind. he dosent want to deal with the possibility that gyno comes on.

I can use that better safe than sorry against you all day with everything in life.
When you took tren did you take bromo or dostin?

[Bouncer]

I can use that better safe than sorry against you all day with everything in life.
When you took tren did you take bromo or dostin?

no i didnt and guess what from the time my nips got sensitive i had 2 little pea sized lumps and puffy nips for 4 weeks. wasnt until i totally came off the tren and had been off for 4 weeks in combonation with letro did all gyno and puffyness go away.

so there goes your point.. lol. i should have ran bromo or dostin with it.

[liftsiron]

Nolva doesn't reduce estrogen it blocks estrogen at specific sites such as in breast tissue and adipose cells. So even if you need some estrogen for muscle growth, which some studies indicates that you do, excess estrogen is not good, so I take arimidex every cycle, which greatly eliminates estrogen but leaves enough for specific functions in the body. 10mgs of nolva can also help to keep a more favorable blood lipid levels. However I agree with you if you absolutely feel that you may not need a drug in the cycle, eliminate it at least for the time being so that you can judge if it's of benefit to reaching your goal or not.

Ok I can agree with what you are saying but it is totaly of topic.
OP wants size. You need estrogen to grow. He has never taking a cycle with out nolva. Why take something if you dont need it?

[ROCKETW19]

no i didnt and guess what from the time my nips got sensitive i had 2 little pea sized lumps and puffy nips for 4 weeks. wasnt until i totally came off the tren and had been off for 4 weeks in combonation with letro did all gyno and puffyness go away.

so there goes your point.. lol. i should have ran bromo or dostin with it.

I still to this day dont belive estrogeblockage helps with progestrone gyno.
When you got the pea sized lumps you could of started your dostinex right then. I perfer to regulate the dosage then take dostinex though. I can take 300mgs a week of tren no problems but once I hit 350 nipps puff up like crazy.
So once again I made my point when you get side take actions not before.

[liftsiron]

I still to this day dont belive estrogeblockage helps with progestrone gyno.
When you got the pea sized lumps you could of started your dostinex right then. I perfer to regulate the dosage then take dostinex though. I can take 300mgs a week of tren no problems but once I hit 350 nipps puff up like crazy.
So once again I made my point when you get side take actions not before.

I use B6 200mgs twice per day with 750mgs TrenE with no Prolactin sides, here a few studies I dug up quickly. Note when we speak of gyno from tren or deca it's actually galactorrhea we should be referring to.

Studies on B6 Effectivness on Prolactin
======================================
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1976 Mar;42(3):603-6


Effect of pyridoxine on human hypophyseal trophic hormone release: a possible stimulation of hypothalamic dopaminergic pathway.

Delitala G, Masala A, Alagna S, Devilla L.

A single dose of pyridoxine (300 mg iv) produced significant rises in peak levels of immunoreactive growth hormone GH and significant decrease of plasma prolactin PRL in 8 hospitalized healthy subjects. Serum glucose, luteinizing hormone LH, follicle stimulating hormone FSH and thyrotropin TSH were not altered significantly. In addition, in 5 acromegalic patients who were studied with both L-dopa and pyridoxine, inhibition of GH secretion followed either agent in a similar pattern. These data suggest a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect of pyridoxine.

===============================
N Engl J Med 1982 Aug 12;307(7):444-5

Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise.

Moretti C, Fabbri A, Gnessi L, Bonifacio V, Fraioli F, Isidori A.

=====================================
Boll Soc Ital Biol Sper 1984 Feb 28;60(2):273-8

[Influence of administration of pyridoxine on circadian rhythm of plasma ACTH, cortisol prolactin and somatotropin in normal subjects]

[Article in Italian]

Barletta C, Sellini M, Bartoli A, Bigi C, Buzzetti R, Giovannini C.

The influence of vitamin B6 in a dosage of 300 mg X 2 in 24 hrs, on circadian rhythm of plasmatic ACTH, cortisol, prolactin and somatotropin have been studied in 10 normal women. After vitamin B6 24 hrs pattern of ACTH and cortisol is unchanged; prolactin levels are slightly lower, in a statistically unsignificant proportion the night peak of growth hormone is higher in a statistically significant proportion (p. 0.05). The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to me mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level as previous studies by other authors appear to prove.
__________________




Here is one on Bromo.

Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Vol 42, 1024-1030, Copyright © 1976 by Endocrine Society


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARTICLES


Prolactin and thyrotropin responses to thyrotropin-releasing hormone in patients with secondary amenorrhea: the effect of bromocriptine
E Hirvonen, T Ranta and M Seppala


Prolactin (PRL) and thyrotropin (TSH) responses to a 200 mug intravenous thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) bolus were measured by radioimmunoassay in 11 women with hyperprolactinemic amenorrhea and 9 with normoprolactinemic amenorrhea. In all cases, the tests were carried out under basal conditions and repeated during bromocriptine treatment. In women whose basal PRL level was normal; TRH caused a maximal PRL increment of 85 +/- 25.2 mug/l (mean +/- SE), while those women whose basal PRL level was raised showed a smaller increase (5.2 +/- 11.9 mug/l) (P=0.02). The peak levels were not significantly different in these two groups (95.0 +/- 26.7 and 134.6 +/- 35.9 mug/l) (P is greater than 0.1). During bromocriptine treatment, the raised PRL levels decreased in all cases, but levels over 30 mug/l remained in 3 patients, one of whom turned out to have a pituitary tumor. Prolactin responses to TRH were markedly inhibited in normoprolactinemic patients by the dose of bromocriptine used. The mean maximal net increase of PRL was 2.0 +/- 0.9 mug/l in normoprolactinemic patients and 11.0 +/- 8.1 mug/l in hyperprolactinemic patients taking bromocriptine. After TRH stimulation during bromocriptine, the peak PRL levels in hyperprolactinemic patients were higher (32.7 +/- 10.5 mug/l) than in normoprolactinemic patients (7.2 +/- 1.5 mug/l). Unlike what has been described for hypothyroid patients, the basal TSH level in euthyroid amenorrhea patients was not affected by bromocriptine, and we found that bromocriptine has no effect on the TRH-TSH response.
__________________







Here is another one for B6.
Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Vol 42, 1192-1195, Copyright © 1976 by Endocrine Society


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARTICLES


Treatment of women with the galactorrhea-amenorrhea syndrome with pyridoxine (vitamin B6)
EN McIntosh


Three women with the galactorrhea-amenorrhea syndrome and elevated prolactin concentrations experienced a return of regular ovulatory menses within 37-94 days after starting pyridoxine treatment (200-600 mg/day). In each the galactorrhea ceased and serum prolactin levels were maintained in the normal range while taking pyridoxine. In two other women with prolonged secondary amenorrhea but without hyperprolactinemia or galactorrhea, pyridoxine at dosages up to 600 mg/day did not restore ovulatory menses. Pyridoxine treatment was also ineffective in decreasing profuse galactorrhea in one woman with normal prolactin levels and regular ovulatory menses. In the three women effectively treated with pyridoxine, the galactorrhea returned, serum prolactin levels increased, and the menses ceased after discontinuing pyridoxine. These results imply that pyridoxine, by decreasing the excessive secretion of prolactin, may be useful in the long-term medical management of women with hyperprolactinemia and the galactorrhea-amenorrhea syndrome.
__________________

[Bouncer]

I still to this day dont belive estrogeblockage helps with progestrone gyno.
When you got the pea sized lumps you could of started your dostinex right then. I perfer to regulate the dosage then take dostinex though. I can take 300mgs a week of tren no problems but once I hit 350 nipps puff up like crazy.
So once again I made my point when you get side take actions not before.

agreed but i didnt know if the gyno was from estorgen from the test or from porgesten from the tren.

either way, i hate tren. will never use it again.

for me, test and dbol is my favorite. if i feel sensative nips i start 10mgs of nolv per day.

[ROCKETW19]

I use B6 200mgs twice per day with 750mgs TrenE with no Prolactin sides, here a few studies I dug up quickly. Note when we speak of gyno from tren or deca it's actually galactorrhea we should be referring to.

Studies on B6 Effectivness on Prolactin
======================================
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1976 Mar;42(3):603-6


Effect of pyridoxine on human hypophyseal trophic hormone release: a possible stimulation of hypothalamic dopaminergic pathway.

Delitala G, Masala A, Alagna S, Devilla L.

A single dose of pyridoxine (300 mg iv) produced significant rises in peak levels of immunoreactive growth hormone GH and significant decrease of plasma prolactin PRL in 8 hospitalized healthy subjects. Serum glucose, luteinizing hormone LH, follicle stimulating hormone FSH and thyrotropin TSH were not altered significantly. In addition, in 5 acromegalic patients who were studied with both L-dopa and pyridoxine, inhibition of GH secretion followed either agent in a similar pattern. These data suggest a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect of pyridoxine.

===============================
N Engl J Med 1982 Aug 12;307(7):444-5

Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise.

Moretti C, Fabbri A, Gnessi L, Bonifacio V, Fraioli F, Isidori A.

=====================================
Boll Soc Ital Biol Sper 1984 Feb 28;60(2):273-8

[Influence of administration of pyridoxine on circadian rhythm of plasma ACTH, cortisol prolactin and somatotropin in normal subjects]

[Article in Italian]

Barletta C, Sellini M, Bartoli A, Bigi C, Buzzetti R, Giovannini C.

The influence of vitamin B6 in a dosage of 300 mg X 2 in 24 hrs, on circadian rhythm of plasmatic ACTH, cortisol, prolactin and somatotropin have been studied in 10 normal women. After vitamin B6 24 hrs pattern of ACTH and cortisol is unchanged; prolactin levels are slightly lower, in a statistically unsignificant proportion the night peak of growth hormone is higher in a statistically significant proportion (p. 0.05). The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to me mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level as previous studies by other authors appear to prove.
__________________




Here is one on Bromo.

Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Vol 42, 1024-1030, Copyright © 1976 by Endocrine Society


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARTICLES


Prolactin and thyrotropin responses to thyrotropin-releasing hormone in patients with secondary amenorrhea: the effect of bromocriptine
E Hirvonen, T Ranta and M Seppala


Prolactin (PRL) and thyrotropin (TSH) responses to a 200 mug intravenous thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH) bolus were measured by radioimmunoassay in 11 women with hyperprolactinemic amenorrhea and 9 with normoprolactinemic amenorrhea. In all cases, the tests were carried out under basal conditions and repeated during bromocriptine treatment. In women whose basal PRL level was normal; TRH caused a maximal PRL increment of 85 +/- 25.2 mug/l (mean +/- SE), while those women whose basal PRL level was raised showed a smaller increase (5.2 +/- 11.9 mug/l) (P=0.02). The peak levels were not significantly different in these two groups (95.0 +/- 26.7 and 134.6 +/- 35.9 mug/l) (P is greater than 0.1). During bromocriptine treatment, the raised PRL levels decreased in all cases, but levels over 30 mug/l remained in 3 patients, one of whom turned out to have a pituitary tumor. Prolactin responses to TRH were markedly inhibited in normoprolactinemic patients by the dose of bromocriptine used. The mean maximal net increase of PRL was 2.0 +/- 0.9 mug/l in normoprolactinemic patients and 11.0 +/- 8.1 mug/l in hyperprolactinemic patients taking bromocriptine. After TRH stimulation during bromocriptine, the peak PRL levels in hyperprolactinemic patients were higher (32.7 +/- 10.5 mug/l) than in normoprolactinemic patients (7.2 +/- 1.5 mug/l). Unlike what has been described for hypothyroid patients, the basal TSH level in euthyroid amenorrhea patients was not affected by bromocriptine, and we found that bromocriptine has no effect on the TRH-TSH response.
__________________







Here is another one for B6.
Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Vol 42, 1192-1195, Copyright © 1976 by Endocrine Society


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ARTICLES


Treatment of women with the galactorrhea-amenorrhea syndrome with pyridoxine (vitamin B6)
EN McIntosh


Three women with the galactorrhea-amenorrhea syndrome and elevated prolactin concentrations experienced a return of regular ovulatory menses within 37-94 days after starting pyridoxine treatment (200-600 mg/day). In each the galactorrhea ceased and serum prolactin levels were maintained in the normal range while taking pyridoxine. In two other women with prolonged secondary amenorrhea but without hyperprolactinemia or galactorrhea, pyridoxine at dosages up to 600 mg/day did not restore ovulatory menses. Pyridoxine treatment was also ineffective in decreasing profuse galactorrhea in one woman with normal prolactin levels and regular ovulatory menses. In the three women effectively treated with pyridoxine, the galactorrhea returned, serum prolactin levels increased, and the menses ceased after discontinuing pyridoxine. These results imply that pyridoxine, by decreasing the excessive secretion of prolactin, may be useful in the long-term medical management of women with hyperprolactinemia and the galactorrhea-amenorrhea syndrome.
__________________

ya bro I read all thoes studys and even gave it a shot i think I even doubled the B6 dose just to be sure still got it at 350mgs. I think some of us are just way to sensitive to progestrone.
now estrogen I can handle no problems. I have done 1G of test E back in the day with zero problems.

[freakinhuge]

If you want to be better safe than sorry, than you could add some nolva or letro in the cycle, even if its just for your own peace of mind. I always keep some letro or aromasin on hand for my pct and that takes care of all gyno issues.